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KickStarter The Wayward Realms - upcoming Daggerfall-like RPG from original Elder Scrolls developers - coming to Kickstarter in May

Bad Sector

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
What is 'state of the art 3D model' today - will be 'dated low poly model' when the game eventually releases.

Graphics do not really change that much anymore, lots of games from 10 years ago look great IMO.
 

deama

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The production of the Wayward Realms faced turmoil from its outset, alas. Despite valiant efforts to avert such tribulations, the journey was arduous in the extreme. Without financial backing and relying solely on voluntary contributions, the task of creation approached near impossibility. Astonishingly, neither Ted nor Julian boasted substantial connections or an extensive network of associates and investors. This, despite a market thirsting for such games and the potential they hold. With the exception of Bethesda's Skyrim, the market lacks endeavors of comparable scope. Even a modest infusion of funds could have propelled the project's initiation.

Under the volunteer framework, many contributions were directed towards world-building, lore, stories, and quests. Abundant creative content emerged from skilled writers, who convened for weekly meetings. This aspect of production yielded immense satisfaction, as the world's intricate tapestry unfolded, promising players an engaging experience.

Notably, the expansive world map surpasses even Daggerfall's dimensions, although this information may already be familiar to you.

The initial article penned by Ian, who departed the project around a year after its inception, garnered a mixed reaction from the production team. His departure led to frustration and disparagement within the group. Nonetheless, Ian's pivotal role in assembling the team and the project's foundations was notable, even though neither Ted nor Julian showed significant initial interest or invested financially.

Ian's candid account accurately depicted the unfolding reality. Within a year, the project encountered significant internal challenges. Julian's scarce presence and Ted's infrequent involvement hampered progress, as key decisions hinged upon their input. The project teetered on the brink when Ian experienced a mental breakdown and withdrew. A critical intervention orchestrated by a swift-acting individual salvaged the situation, compelling Ted to reassess his commitment.

The project's core team remained fluid, with members entering and exiting over the years. While this is a familiar tale, the recent developments are of more pressing interest. A complex interplay of positive and negative factors ensued, manifesting in nuanced shades rather than absolutes. This account will focus on the adversities, acknowledging the intricate balance between both aspects.

Entering the core of the narrative, a notable drawback emerged as the project saw a subtle takeover by inexperienced junior individuals. During their tenure, apart from Ted and Julian, there existed one professional with industry experience, accompanied by a skilled artist of notable talent. The majority, however, were largely amateurs, enthusiasts from online forums, and interns. The endeavor began to adopt a forum-like mentality, verging on a cultish atmosphere. This transformation was fueled by the absence of sound work management, actual production ethics, and the dearth of seasoned professionals guiding the actual production within a genuine professional environment.

Effectively, the project, aside from Ted who served more as a symbolic figure than a CEO, found itself under the leadership of an inexperienced, almost unprofessional collective. This cohort, though lacking proficiency and real-life experience, asserted their dominance. Unfortunately, this dynamic resulted in them disregarding advice from the seasoned contributors on the team.

A young individual, let's call him Tod, joined the team, assuming the position of manager. Initially, he appeared promising and took charge of creating the project's inaugural trailer. While the trailer's success wasn't solely attributed to him, Tod managed to instill a measure of focus within the team. The purpose of the trailer was to boost team morale and offer something to the community, a goal it successfully achieved. Under Tod's gaze, the trailer was produced, with his influence extending to its artistic domain. The trailer's creation was a formidable task, reflecting the challenges posed by a dearth of seasoned professionals.

Following this, the team began to place trust in this individual, eventually designating him as one of the leads. The decision was made to pursue the Epic Grant as a starting point, with further strategies also being contemplated. An initiative to construct a procedural dungeon concept was launched, tailored for the Epic Grant application. The rationale was to secure a modest sum that could facilitate gradual and controlled expenditures, aiding the creation of a vertical slice to attract potential investors.

Upon the completion of the dungeon concept, the application to Epic was submitted. The team continued their endeavors with the development of the vertical slice. Although several investors and publishers displayed keen interest in the project, their demand for tangible progress was justifiable. However, lacking professional expertise, the endeavor of creating this monumental task proved almost insurmountable.

A single individual contributed around 70% of the vertical slice's content, supported by several interns who collectively contributed about 10%, and one additional contributor who contributed approximately 20%. Coders faced considerable challenges in ensuring the project's functionality. Within the coding team, a lead coder concentrated on housing procedural generation, while others grappled with the main character, dialogue system, item system, and subpar NPCs. Remarkably, certain individuals in the YouTube community demonstrate the capability to accomplish similar feats in Unreal Engine 5 within the span of a month.

The intended timeline for completing the vertical slice encompassed three months, with the prospect of minor extensions for tweaks and polish—perhaps an additional 2 to 4 weeks. It was crucial to finalize this phase, given that publishers had been awaiting progress for nearly a year. Enter TOD, whose inexperience prompted him, along with the lead coder, to advocate for rigorous and relentless polishing of the vertical slice until deemed "done." However, the precise definition of "done" remained elusive.
This approach carried detrimental implications. Vertical slices and demos for publishers are inherently raw, meant to convey the project's vision, atmosphere, scale, and the team's capability to create a game. Publishers and investors, as professionals, grasp the essence of what's shown and are impervious to superficial polish. Regrettably, TOD's amateur status led him to reject this notion. His misguided belief was that excessive polish would enhance publishers' enthusiasm, albeit at the cost of team exhaustion. Even Ted recognized the perils of this approach, voicing concerns that fell on deaf ears.

Initial talks with a publisher led to a request for the vertical slice. Instead of providing it within a month, the decision was made to continue polishing for an additional three months—an action bordering on insanity or deliberate design. Such circumstances evoke suspicion, prompting considerations of industrial espionage. It's as though every effort has been directed towards thwarting production funding. This notion might verge on paranoia, but it's a perspective that has emerged.

Recalling the earlier mention of applying for the Epic Grant, it transpired that the application seemingly never reached Epic. Ted's inquiries to his friend revealed its absence. The suggestion of a server error surfaced, though notably, no reports emerged of similar issues affecting other projects.

Another crucial point emerged when the team presented the vertical slice to the patiently-awaiting publishers. As seasoned professionals, the publishers recognized the project's potential despite its rough, customary state for such presentations. Impressed by what they observed, they proceeded to request copies of the Game Design Document (GDD), pitch deck, and risk register—industry-standard requirements for negotiations. These requests were reasonable and customary. However, the process became marred by delay. Instead of promptly focusing the entire team on preparing these materials and expediting the process, they allowed it to stagnate. Surprisingly, no timeline for the next meeting was set. The corporate team opted to prioritize not only the polishing of the vertical slice but also the meticulous preparation of the requested documents.

Moving forward, two publishers eagerly awaited action from the team—not merely content to witness progress but anticipating an appointment for an initial talk meeting. This indicated a level of amateurism that was pronounced. In his capacity as CEO, it should have been Ted's responsibility to assert authority and initiate decisive actions. Regrettably, he remained passive, allowing unseasoned individuals to take the lead, despite their lack of productivity. Julian, not assuming the role of CEO and displaying limited investment in the project, lacked the firmness that characterized his days at Bethesda.

The lead coder, while possessing expertise, exhibited a tinge of narcissism that approached fervor. Dissent rarely found purchase against his convictions. While acknowledging his skillset, one questions the time invested in his tasks. For instance, a housing procedural generation sample intended for the vertical slice consumed two months in its initial iteration, a period excluding proprietary roof model elements. The inclusion of these elements, planned for the subsequent month, accentuates an inefficiency that is remarkable. In contrast, other creators within the Blender realm complete intricate building procedural tasks with remarkable speed.

Another significant issue for the project, beyond the lack of experienced industry professionals, centered on a form of feature creep ingrained within the overarching project planning. While the initial vision for WR embraced a realistic yet non-photorealistic aesthetic, the advent of UE5 introduced an inflation of expectations to unrealistic proportions. The implementation of resource-intensive techniques such as nanite and fluidflux held potential for depth but carried immense costs across all dimensions. If not meticulously controlled, UE5 and its intricate methods had the potential to spiral out of control. Such an approach, if executed as conceived, would necessitate the resources of AAA studios with seasoned teams, substantial funding, and years of commitment. Moreover, it would likely confine its accessibility to high-end hardware, with installation demands exceeding 500GB.

The budgeting process defied conventional logic. Despite repeated counsel, the project's scope, enlarged by various additions, indicated that only a mid-tier budget, likely in the range of around 50 million dollars, and spanning many years of labor involving a sizable crew, might yield completion. A stark contrast emerged as the budget presented to publishers reflected a mere fraction of this reality. Their rationale—to not "scare off" investors and publishers—found merit, yet it begged for alignment with project aspirations.

Furthermore, the project's emphasis shifted, resulting in its transformation into a cozy space for socializing and fostering friendships, which eventually overshadowed its fundamental purpose. This transition from being driven by the dynamics of the project to fostering a more amicable atmosphere exerted a discernible influence, significantly hampering the project's momentum. This reshaped focus ultimately led the project to take a total back seat in favor of social interactions, where team members began prioritizing mutual protection over the advancement of the project itself. This was evident in their inclination toward being the center of attention as a team, rather than focusing solely on the project's original purpose for their involvement.

Good & Bad things of the project:

Good
  • Work that was actually done for the project
    • Lore
    • World building
    • Writing stories/books
    • Writing quests
    • Concepts and Illustrations (it is just a scratch of what is needed for the overall project)
    • Playable races flashing out.
    • Idea development
    • Gameplay mechanics idea development
  • Work that was half done and/or never meant to be finished
    • Dungeon procgen show of
    • Vertical slice playable show of

Bad
  • Actual game.
    • There is no actual game, nor was ever such a plan in this volunteer stage of the project.
    • No Alpha of any kind, in regards to the real game. (the pre-alpha they are refereeing to is just a vertical slice)
    • Some videos just show snippets of Dungeon procgen demo and somewhat of procgen housing generation.
    • Most of the later screenshots are from the vertical slice, from the early stage.
    • Almost no pro 3D work for the actual game. All you see are just fooling around, showing off for the community and something that could not be used in the actual game.

The project gradually adopted a corporate-like mindset, largely guided by TOD. This framework functioned akin to a board of directors, dictating decisions for a project that didn't yet exist. Such decisions even imposed their will on Ted, the company's founder, despite the fact that his reputation and legalities were at stake. It's important to note, however, that this isn't a defense of Ted, as his ignorance and attitudes have also demonstrated some malevolence, although this aspect won't be delved into here.

A glaringly nonsensical move within the project was the plan to retain all leadership roles from the volunteer phase once funding was secured. Instead of strategically bringing in industry professionals to assume critical leading roles—a pivotal aspect for any project—existing volunteers clung to their lead positions. This decision had the potential to lead to a sharp nosedive for the project. Their motivation appeared to be a pursuit of substantial financial gain, reflecting their aspirations for significant wealth, involving multi-million-dollar sums.

Had the project maintained a more restrained scope, operating on a smaller engine, and entrusted professionals with the lead roles, it might have stood a better chance. The recently shared snippets on Youtube derive from the vertical slice demo created for potential publishers. A couple of observations regarding this: it seems that the original housing assets developed around a year ago weren't utilized, and the team leaned more towards using readily available Marketplace assets. Additionally, while the showcased area appears polished, the endeavor to achieve this level of refinement took nearly a year to reach about 40% above initial setup. This suggests a lack of substantial progress in talks with publishers, or perhaps such discussions were limited in nature. Consider that the polishing effort, spanning an entire year, was directed solely at an area measuring approximately 3x3km. Contemplate the monumental undertaking of achieving similar refinement across a region spanning 600x600km, complete with all its content.

The contingency plan entailed resorting to crowdfunding if negotiations with publishers and investors failed to secure financial backing for the project. The board of directors proposed employing the vertical slice as a marketing tool, leveraging it for a video trailer or a restricted gameplay demonstration.

If crowdfunding became the chosen route and funding objectives were met, the unfortunate destiny that awaits this project, given the presence of inexperienced individuals determined to retain their roles, would mirror the outcomes seen in games like Shroud of the Avatar, Camelot Unchained, and others.
TL:DR summary by chatgpt:
The Wayward Realms project has been a rollercoaster of highs and lows, marked by a lack of financial backing, inconsistent leadership, and a volunteer-driven framework. Despite a market ripe for such games and a creative team that excelled in world-building, lore, and quests, the project faced numerous setbacks. Initial enthusiasm waned due to leadership issues, notably the sporadic involvement of key figures Ted and Julian, and the departure of Ian, who had played a pivotal role in the project's inception. The team's fluidity and reliance on amateurs and enthusiasts led to a lack of professional oversight, further exacerbated when a young manager named Tod took the reins. While Tod's leadership did result in a successful trailer, his inexperience led to misguided decisions, such as an excessive focus on polishing a vertical slice for potential investors, thereby delaying crucial negotiations. Financial planning was equally flawed, with a budget that vastly underestimated the project's scope and needs. The team's shifting focus towards social interactions over project advancement, coupled with a corporate-like mindset, further hampered progress. Despite some achievements like the creation of a vertical slice and lore development, the project lacked a concrete game and professional 3D work. The contingency plan to resort to crowdfunding if negotiations with publishers failed seemed like a desperate move, given the project's history of mismanagement and the potential for it to follow in the footsteps of other failed crowdfunded games. Overall, the Wayward Realms project serves as a cautionary tale of what can go awry when enthusiasm and creativity are not matched by professional expertise, sound leadership, and realistic planning.
 

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
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This is still too long. Asked it to sum it up in under 10 words:

Wayward Realms' production faced challenges, lacked funding, amateur leadership, potential corporate sabotage, questionable decisions, and uncertain future.
 

notpl

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Messages
1,396
This is still too long. Asked it to sum it up in under 10 words:

Wayward Realms' production faced challenges, lacked funding, amateur leadership, potential corporate sabotage, questionable decisions, and uncertain future.
I really love all the doom and gloom surrounding machine learning when it still cannot manage such herculean tasks as "count to 10"
 

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
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Joined
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Messages
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This is still too long. Asked it to sum it up in under 10 words:

Wayward Realms' production faced challenges, lacked funding, amateur leadership, potential corporate sabotage, questionable decisions, and uncertain future.
I really love all the doom and gloom surrounding machine learning when it still cannot manage such herculean tasks as "count to 10"
"My dog can't play chess. It only wins 4 out of 10 games!"
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,523
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth

Get to know a little bit about the man behind some of your favorite things in our most recent DevLog video, Caleb!

Caleb is an instrumental part to the team and The Wayward Realms features... Check it out!
 

LostSoul

Barely Literate
Joined
Sep 24, 2023
Messages
1
I can't verify any of the 2nd half of Dwergar's story (though it has so many details I can't help but be curious as to where they got that info), but I can say for certain that at least for the first year and a half, there was ZERO mention of Microsoft as a potential publisher. Only Paradox was seriously interested in the project, and as the story goes, the most likely thing that scared them off was a late-night email from Vijay to the contact at Paradox claiming that they needed 12 million dollars to "compete with Cyberpunk 2077." Which was not only very ballsy for a tiny unfunded group to ask for that, but also completely nonsensical that they could somehow beat CDPR, who were YEARS into building the game and had something like 300 staff on the project at the time, with an inexperienced, unstable team with fraction of the budget.

Indigo's article about his experience with the project wasn't deleted, merely unlisted: https://medium.com/@indigogaming/how-i-almost-made-the-game-of-my-dreams-da8b327e50f3

As far as the recent vertical slice videos are concerned, someone is working within UE, but I wouldn't doubt it is 90% store-bought. I found the exact house asset they showed off in the trailer in just a few minutes. Not that hard to find.

Screenshot_2023-08-22_at_4.13.53_PM.png
Screenshot_2023-08-22_at_4.14.05_PM.png


Link to UE store asset: https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/medieval-houses-modular-vol

----

As a side note, the pursuit of graphical photorealism is incredibly misguided, will either look terrible (hatching together dozens of uncoordinated, generic UE assets), or will be WAY too costly and time-consuming to create. It was always Julian's push to go that way and it's going to kill the project.

- A Lost Soul
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Messages
999


Behold! Store bought assets running at 15fps!

Where are the core team of Daggerfall veterans? All i've seen for the past two years is videos featuring very young and clearly inexperienced developers. Golly, it'd be a shame if those core Daggerfall veterans got bored of trying to make the game and pushed it onto younger team members who now have to fulfill the promise of the game whilst the veterans busy themselves posting shoes on Discord or just vanish into the ether. And thus with the team's lack of experience they cobbled together a hodgepodge of lightly edited store assets with rudimentary scripts to make it look like progress was happening when it clearly wasn't.

But I'm just being negative. Everything is going fine.
 
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Old Hans

Arcane
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
1,492

Get to know a little bit about the man behind some of your favorite things in our most recent DevLog video, Caleb!

Caleb is an instrumental part to the team and The Wayward Realms features... Check it out!

I like how it's just "caleb" the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this was the Mr. Fantastic quote from New Vegas: "They asked me how well I understood theoretical physics. I said I had a theoretical degree in physics. They said welcome aboard."
 

mondblut

Arcane
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Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,264
Location
Ingrija
Who are those youtube zoomers and wtf they are doing in the game whose sole appeal was being Julian and Ted's baby?

I guess that project was… wayward.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
6,121
I literally have porn videos stashed somewhere that are older than this dude.

I thought the selling point behind this project were old people industry veterans.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,523
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I literally have porn videos stashed somewhere that are older than this dude.

I thought the selling point behind this project were old people industry veterans.

Reminder: https://medium.com/@indigogaming/how-i-almost-made-the-game-of-my-dreams-da8b327e50f3

We didn’t have an active producer, someone who could really schedule out, plan, manage and motivate our team (which was growing to well over a dozen contributors). And we did very little to actually curate, verify the identity of, or actually get a real agreement with our contributors. One time, a mapmaker was recruited to our team, only later to be discovered to be an underage teenager, who then started leaking details about the game to the public. Ouch!
 
Last edited:

grimace

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
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screenshot2023-10-19ai0eva.png



oncelostlogof0eg3.jpeg



Do we have a new logo?
 

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