Why is Gothic series so culty?

[Nikanuur]

I started with Gothic 3, actually. Thought it was a nice game but it was too buggy to finish and decided to try G2. The difference was fucking enormous. Completely shocked at how better it was, I finished G2 and went to play the OG one, which was easier to get used to after G2. And again, the difference in worlbuilding and questing was huge from G3. There is absolutely zero chance that I will ever again call G3 a "nice game" or attempt to play it again.

If you can't tell why first two were better, that's your problem. However, don't expect others to take you seriously.

It's not a problem. It all boils down to the paradigma of knights who say Ni! Ni! eky, eky, eky, ta peng! Sadly, they will never understand it, so...

 

[Laz Sundays]

I started with Gothic 3, actually. Thought it was a nice game but it was too buggy to finish and decided to try G2. The difference was fucking enormous. Completely shocked at how better it was, I finished G2 and went to play the OG one, which was easier to get used to after G2. And again, the difference in worlbuilding and questing was huge from G3. There is absolutely zero chance that I will ever again call G3 a "nice game" or attempt to play it again.

If you can't tell why first two were better, that's your problem. However, don't expect others to take you seriously.

It's not a problem. It all boils down to the paradigma of knights who say Ni! Ni! eky, eky, eky, ta peng! Sadly, they will never understand it, so...

Noone cares, Mr Python. It's not an illusionary spell that we're under, it's common sense. Catering became the norm, world's gone to hell. Simulations were supposed to teach, not pander. If you can't break the spell someone else will so all is good.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

G3 was PB biting off way more than they could chew. The map was enormous compared to previous games and it was obvious they couldn't handle it, hence the shit, low-effort content strewn about, the whole "liberation" questline that kinda went nowhere and was scuffed as hell, vast stretches of landscape devoid of anything interesting, and the obviously rushed aspects of the game. PB reached for the stars only to fall on its face and never recover. I respect the ambition, at least. Had they succeeded to deliver G2-level quality at the scale they attempted, it'd have been the greatest RPG ever made.

"If they just changed the design possibly for every part of the game it would b3 amazing"

You're giving them way too much credit. Their ambition for creating such a large world did not have an effect on the following:

1. Retconning essentially every piece or Lore that existed in the setting

2. Pop up tutorials from the get go & immersion breaking dialogue/journal ("Your friend like to hang out near the beach. Go find your friend at the beach!")

3. Loot. Just loot. At least hand place something, like behind special, unique enemies.

I'm already bored and don't want to keep going, but you get the point. Things that were horribly implemented due to lack of time would still be shit even if they did it well.

 

[thesecret1]

G3 was PB biting off way more than they could chew. The map was enormous compared to previous games and it was obvious they couldn't handle it, hence the shit, low-effort content strewn about, the whole "liberation" questline that kinda went nowhere and was scuffed as hell, vast stretches of landscape devoid of anything interesting, and the obviously rushed aspects of the game. PB reached for the stars only to fall on its face and never recover. I respect the ambition, at least. Had they succeeded to deliver G2-level quality at the scale they attempted, it'd have been the greatest RPG ever made.

"If they just changed the design possibly for every part of the game it would b3 amazing"

You're giving them way too much credit. Their ambition for creating such a large world did not have an effect on the following:

1. Retconning essentially every piece or Lore that existed in the setting

2. Pop up tutorials from the get go & immersion breaking dialogue/journal ("Your friend like to hang out near the beach. Go find your friend at the beach!")

3. Loot. Just loot. At least hand place something, like behind special, unique enemies.

I'm already bored and don't want to keep going, but you get the point. Things that were horribly implemented due to lack of time would still be shit even if they did it well.

Eh, I think even those things may have been done due to time constraints. No time create interesting encounters, no time to design a more natural way for quest hooks, Lore just shat together in a hurry to conform to whatever was needed at the moment... Content is usually created very late in the dev cycle, when corners are being cut on a mass scale and when management is slowly starting to panic. I'd pin it on ineptitude with other games, but there's few games out there as obviously rushed as G3 - it's especially noticeable if you go to lands beyond Myrtana, with empty as fuck deserts with garbage quests, or the northern wastes that are basically just a couple corridors filled with tons of trashmobs.

 

[Skinwalker]

The first two did a lot of things right, that made up for the horrid controls and wooden voice acting and writing.

After that, who knows. Gothic 3 was a crime against humanity on par with Oblivion, and everything since has been a tired and failed attempt to recreate the magic of the first two Gothics (meaningless title, btw).

Surprised Pirania Bytes made it as long as it did.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

I haven't been able to put into words why I think Gothic voice acting is great (if we're referring to the English one which is "dodgy"). There are 1/2 instances of some really bad voice acting, stuff I could do better in, but it does what a video game needs to do imo. I don't know, I can't put it into words.

Eh, I think even those things may have been done due to time constraints. No time create interesting encounters, no time to design a more natural way for quest hooks, Lore just shat together in a hurry to conform to whatever was needed at the moment... Content is usually created very late in the dev cycle, when corners are being cut on a mass scale and when management is slowly starting to panic. I'd pin it on ineptitude with other games, but there's few games out there as obviously rushed as G3 - it's especially noticeable if you go to lands beyond Myrtana, with empty as fuck deserts with garbage quests, or the northern wastes that are basically just a couple corridors filled with tons of trashmobs.

I can't give them participation points for trying something ambitious and failing miserably because they did nothing good, it shows they had no idea what they're doing. If it was like Troika games or early Obsidian, there's some great stuff there despite being rushed and/or being a mess. Gothic 3 is none of that so the time constraints mean nothing to me when not only was stuff not improved, everything, down to every element of what makes a good RPG, was destroyed (the failure compounded by the existence of Gothic 1/2, I don't understand how you fail this fucking bad without being rotten to the core). Even being rushed is not an excuse for every last thing being a failure.

 

[Nikanuur]

Anyway, that thing with Essen was too dark a humor for the general audience, I suppose.

Obviously, Gothic series is so culty because of its freedom of choice, reactivity, several worth of playthroughs, clumsy but still somehow awesome combat, exploration without precedence, and gritty, believable atmosphere.
People gladly forgive the game some shortcomings if its heart is in the right place. Gothics have the latter in abundance.

 

[Fargus]

Obviously, Gothic series is so culty because of its freedom of choice, reactivity, several worth of playthroughs, clumsy but still somehow awesome combat, exploration without precedence, and gritty, believable atmosphere.
People gladly forgive the game some shortcomings if its heart is in the right place. Gothics have the latter in abundance.

You're right. But i would add that one of the main reasons why these games are so great is tough but fair progression and it's very rewarding. Not to mention the handcrafted nature of the game.

 

[thesecret1]

I like that each point of XP is meaningful and each enemy unique (since there's no enemy respawn) and especially that you really feel the progression. No matter what you invest you skill points in, you can tell the difference

 

[adddeed]

To me Gothic and Risen series have the best dialogue and voice acting ive come accross in an RPG. Not pretentious, down to earth, vulgar, to the point. Often hilarious.
They have the best exploration in an RPG ive played, best progression, best designed worlds.
The quests are often intertwined. No useless loot and endless item junk. No bloat anywhere. Compact yet diverse world full of places, nooks and crannies.
World is believable, NPCs live their own lives, lots of nice details as prevoiusly metioned (pickpeting dialogues, training dialogues, animations).
Enemies all behave differently, attacks, patterns, they're just fun to fight against.
And lots more.
So i still replay these because no other RPG is like them.

 

[AshenNedra]

it's just a long stroll through stereotypes that really aren't borne out by looking at tastes in American culture.

Stereotypes are almost always anchored in reality, those that aren't don't ring true and therefore can't survive.

America is a big place, you can find p. much everything in some quantity there, even smart and tasteful people, but for every Breaking Bad or The Wire there are oodles of brain-destroying reality shows, retardaloozas like Jerry Springer, soap operas, televangelist shows and monster truck rallies.

In comparison, I'm sure not everything produced by the BBC or Dutch, French, German or Swedish TVs is brilliant but it'd be completely unthinkable to find such profound retardery there.

One of the best examples illustrating the difference between a typical Yuro and Kwa TV production is Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares, the British vs. the US version. The former is smart, funny, authentic and full of moving, deeply human stories, while the US version is loud, stupid, showy and plastic with "drama" background music.

I'm French and you are profoundly wrong about France.

The quality of films and TV - both of which are heavily subsidized and rotten by nepotism - is abysmal.

Contemporary literature is mostly navel-gazing autofiction which mainly consists of reminiscence about childhood of the bourgeoisie and guilt over the Holocaust.

We haven't had a great author since Céline and all writers struggle under its legacy. I haven't been able to find ONE contemporary single book I liked in maybe 15 years. I'm an avid reader so I mainly read in English now.

You are talking about a romanticized past era, my friend. Our historical art and heritage is great but we are in full blown decadence.

Some counter-examples for the sake of completeness that you could look up in the unlikely event you'd be interested: Jabkowski made one great fantasy book, Nekotopia is an interesting book, and some comics and animes are genuinely well-made.

 

[AshenNedra]

I like that each point of XP is meaningful and each enemy unique (since there's no enemy respawn) and especially that you really feel the progression. No matter what you invest you skill points in, you can tell the difference

And the armor! You had to work for it and it made a real difference. Really memorable.
I so despise bad itemization and itemization that is disconnected from the story.

 

[AshenNedra]

G3 was PB biting off way more than they could chew. The map was enormous compared to previous games and it was obvious they couldn't handle it, hence the shit, low-effort content strewn about, the whole "liberation" questline that kinda went nowhere and was scuffed as hell, vast stretches of landscape devoid of anything interesting, and the obviously rushed aspects of the game. PB reached for the stars only to fall on its face and never recover. I respect the ambition, at least. Had they succeeded to deliver G2-level quality at the scale they attempted, it'd have been the greatest RPG ever made.

"If they just changed the design possibly for every part of the game it would b3 amazing"

You're giving them way too much credit. Their ambition for creating such a large world did not have an effect on the following:

1. Retconning essentially every piece or Lore that existed in the setting

2. Pop up tutorials from the get go & immersion breaking dialogue/journal ("Your friend like to hang out near the beach. Go find your friend at the beach!")

3. Loot. Just loot. At least hand place something, like behind special, unique enemies.

I'm already bored and don't want to keep going, but you get the point. Things that were horribly implemented due to lack of time would still be shit even if they did it well.

Eh, I think even those things may have been done due to time constraints. No time create interesting encounters, no time to design a more natural way for quest hooks, Lore just shat together in a hurry to conform to whatever was needed at the moment... Content is usually created very late in the dev cycle, when corners are being cut on a mass scale and when management is slowly starting to panic. I'd pin it on ineptitude with other games, but there's few games out there as obviously rushed as G3 - it's especially noticeable if you go to lands beyond Myrtana, with empty as fuck deserts with garbage quests, or the northern wastes that are basically just a couple corridors filled with tons of trashmobs.

I agree.
Nevertheless, with the community patch, I think I didn't mind G3.Decline it surely was but it was an OK open-world game that I vastly preferred to Oblivion, for example.
The worst thing were the unbeatable wolves pre-patch if I recall correctly. Stun-lock to death is not fun.

 

[cvv]

You are talking about a romanticized past era, my friend. Our historical art and heritage is great but we are in full blown decadence.

Well good to know, seems the rot is spreading.

I just remember my childhood, growing up behind the Iron Curtain in Czechoslovakia. We rarely had any western movies or shows and most of what we did get was French movies with Belmondo, Delon, Richard, de Funes, Gabin etc. I'm literally breast-fed on this shit, everybody here knows and loves Fantomas or The Cop from Saint-Tropez. Oh well...