The Witcher Officialsky Witcherovda 2 Impressiovna Threadskaia

Havoc · Jun 3, 2011

Mrowak said:
Havoc said:

Mrowak - yea, but how about this... in the novels Geralt is DEAD! DUM DUM DUUM! Died at the hands of a fucking peasant. So you want to tell me that Geralt, the master swordsman/kickasser can die like this (Sapkowski's writings)... but the Lodge can't be more womanized (the most dominating women wanted to have more control), due to their bickerings can't be tricked (and you have to take account that they wanted it fast and shit was happening all around - Henselts war, Foltest war and soon to the pile Demawend's death) by a witcher (CDPR writings)? Oh come on...

Click to expand...

Actually, Geralt's death is more believable than you seem to have the impression of. Geralt does not die because he is not enough of a badass swordsman. He dies because because of his profound character-flaw - despite being called a mutant, a freak he is too humane. He spares a peasant who pleads for his life. The farmer stabs him with the fork at the given opportunity. Interestingly - it's not really because the peasant is such a bastard - He kills Geralt simply out of reflex, confusion, fear, mob's rage and adrenaline running through his veins.

In dying this way we fully understand Geralt's tragedy - an ubermensch created to have none of human emotions is ultimately defeated because of them. The scene is also made more paramount by the few scenes back when he discusses with Zoltan and Yarpen his cynism and lack of belief in humanity. Then he professes he shan't play a hero anymore. It's truly tragic that he dies exactly because he goes against the promise he made to himself a few moments back. He dies protecting non-humans from an angry mob. He dies at the hands of the man whose life he spared.

Regarding my earlier observations. I am not accussing the characters of the lack of depth. I am only saying that they are shadows of their former selves in comparison with what we had in the novels. This does not mean they are not written well. This only means they are not written well enough to meet very very high expectations.

Good arguments. I thank you and yield.

Heresiarch · Jun 3, 2011

Man, I wish I have already finished the game so I can read all the spoiler tagged stuff.

Vault Dweller · Jun 3, 2011

Mrowak said:
@Havoc, Grunker, Storyfag

Hmm..., looking at your discussion I reach some interesting conclusions. I think that the whole deal with the 'fakeness' (only for the lack of the better word) of the whole choice at the end is twofold.

Firstly, due to rather abrupt end we cannot see the consequences of all that we've done at the end. There isn't even customary slideshow to show the bigger picture of things e.g. how Temerain nobles reacted to the news from Loc Muine, what was the situation of elves and dwarves, how the appearance/disintegration of the Wizard's council affected the shape of poitical map etc.

Secondly, TWitcher 2 suffers from the disturbing lack of personal consequence.. None of the decisions you make impact you or those really close to you. Everything that happens to them is always beyond your control...

... which reminds me of the way consequences were done in a certain game that shall not be mentioned.

I haven't finished the game yet, but I wouldn't call C&C a strong aspect of the game. The game is way too heavy on the story telling side (kinda like PST) to have decent c&c. You're rarely in control, so you don't really get to choose much. Can you side with the commandant in Flotsam, which is presented as a logical choice? No. Can you find Letho on your own? No. Can you join him? No. Can you attack people you're not supposed to be fighting, which, if I recall correctly, was always a big no-no around the Codex? No. Can you prevent him from taking Triss? No. Can you defeat the kayran without the sorceress? No. Multiple quest solutions? Not so much, in some cases quest design is of the Oblivion quality:

Find Triss! Every second counts! - Oh noes! Triss gone, where did she go? Look, a peephole, let's ask the whores! - Did you guys see anything? Oh we totally did, but Margo ran away! - Let's find Margo! Follow me downstairs - Oh shit, Margo is dead! Quest completed, xp++

mwnn · Jun 3, 2011

Patch 1.2 changelog if anyone hasn't seen it.

http://www.en.thewitcher.com/patch1-2/

-Islamic–themed and similar textures have been deleted and/or replaced.

Looks like the poles are shit-scared of offending the muslims - as par the course.

I'm not sure whether it's really a massive improvement over the first once you peel away the fancy presentation. Feels more like an linear adventure game.

There's more nitpicks...
- The horrible interface UI - lack of filters, shop comparison.
- Erratic difficulty.
- Switching into different characters at certain sequences.
- Heavy equipment bias - particularly the silver sword and the same boring % bonus skills of the first game.

Excidium · Jun 3, 2011

Oo

What's slamic inspired in Twitcher 2? The tapestry?

Grunker · Jun 3, 2011

Vince, you applauded Dragon Age's C&C, which has story impacts only. TW2's story-impacting C&C is more plenty and more, well, impacting.

Add to this that if you choose to go with Roache/Iorveth a significant part of the game actually plays very differently compared to making the other choice. A very real example of gameplay-related C&C.

@Mrowak: You're right that it's not the quality of the books. But compare the writing in TW2 with the books in comparison with other games. I find that as far as lore-rape/writing-rape goes, TW2 is the mildest form I've encountered in a video game thus far.

Storyfag · Jun 3, 2011

Havoc said:
Storyfag said:

Act III

Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEA0o1fhLmE

Thanks! Apparently I cannot into proper youtube searching. But that's not what I need

So a different question:

Does the game contain

a scene in which ambassador Shilard Fitz-Oesterlen speaks to a sorceress named Assire var Anahid

at all? If so, can anyone provide a link to some footage please?

Vault Dweller · Jun 3, 2011

Grunker said:
Vince, you applauded Dragon Age's C&C, which has story impacts only. TW2's story-impacting C&C is more plenty and more, well, impacting.

I don't see that.

Add to this that if you choose to go with Roache/Iorveth a significant part of the game actually plays very differently compared to making the other choice. A very real example of gameplay-related C&C..

It's a fork. Go left, do this. Go right, do that. As far as I understand, once the big choice is made, you're set on fairly linear tracks.

However, I'm still in Chapter 2 (probably somewhere in the middle), so I assume I'm half way through the game. It's possible that things are just about to pick up, choices-wise. Still doesn't change the fact that the first part of the game is very linear and doesn't have the best design.

MapMan · Jun 3, 2011

Many choices carry its consequences throughout the whole game. Also I think its the first time when a game presents something that to figure what its about, you have to replay the game and take a totally different path. The best thing about it, is when you discover it, it makes your jaw drop (atleast it did in my case). Here's what I did:

I sided with roche and stuck with him for the whole game. At the end, when you fight dragon, I decided to spare him. I thought giving us this choice was pretty weird, and since its never explained whats with the dragon, I went to witcher wikia to read about it. And this is when I made this jaw dropping discovery - the dragon is saskia. The player is given a choice to kill or spare Saskia but you have no idea its her and only by taking a different path you can discover this. Awesome.

Mrowak · Jun 3, 2011

Vault Dweller said:
Grunker said:

Vince, you applauded Dragon Age's C&C, which has story impacts only. TW2's story-impacting C&C is more plenty and more, well, impacting.

Click to expand...

I don't see that.

Add to this that if you choose to go with Roache/Iorveth a significant part of the game actually plays very differently compared to making the other choice. A very real example of gameplay-related C&C..

Click to expand...

It's a fork. Go left, do this. Go right, do that. As far as I understand, once the big choice is made, you're set on fairly linear tracks.

Not really Vince. I mean, it IS a fork alright. But its a fork of a rather greater scale than what we have seen so far in any western story-driven RPG. In fact the whole quest-structure for act II changes - both main-quests and side-quests are affected. Actually, none of the quests you have on the one side will repeat itself on the other.

Quick Edit: Ok, there is one quest being repeated. Yes. It's a pity.

Act three plays a little bit more lineary, though your choices from act II do carry over and impact what you will do then, as well as the available solutions to the tasks at hand.

However, I'm still in Chapter 2 (probably somewhere in the middle), so I assume I'm half way through the game. It's possible that things are just about to pick up, choices-wise. Still doesn't change the fact that the first part of the game is very linear and doesn't have the best design.

I agree with the statment that the story-driven nature of the game somewhat limits player's freedom. However, I cannot say the end result makes the game flawed. Especially when I think of great story-driven RPGs which did C&C part much worse than TW2 such as Betrayal at Krondor, or Planescape. I believe that the lack of as many C&C as in say Arcanum or Fallout is not a deal breaker in the game that never even attempted to mirror the approach employed by those two. Everyone to his liking.

Mrowak · Jun 3, 2011

Grunker said:
@Mrowak: You're right that it's not the quality of the books. But compare the writing in TW2 with the books in comparison with other games. I find that as far as lore-rape/writing-rape goes, TW2 is the mildest form I've encountered in a video game thus far.

Agreed.

It's just me being overemotional about the saga that I know well and have fond memories of reading so many years back...

I still cannot forgive CDP for botching the whole 'learning about my past' thing, however.

Stereotypical Villain · Jun 3, 2011

Vincent Price Dweller is once again proving why he should receive the same title which was given to Nomansk and Trash a while back. :salute:

(And for those of you with assburgers: I'm calling him a tosser. Shine on.)

abija · Jun 3, 2011

However, I'm still in Chapter 2 (probably somewhere in the middle), so I assume I'm half way through the game. It's possible that things are just about to pick up, choices-wise. Still doesn't change the fact that the first part of the game is very linear and doesn't have the best design.

You have another choice in C1 that decides weather there's a riot in Flotsam or not, if you go with Iorveth you get another 2 choices just at the end of C1 again. Melitele's Heart, Malena, the 2 quests involving that incense shop, troll trouble, the haunted hospital one, even the silly fight club quest have multiple solutions.

It's mostly story driven but they worked quite hard to offer choices as much as possible.

dragonfk · Jun 3, 2011

Seriously Vince. To praise Dragon Age C&C and bash TW2's is a disgrace. Disgrace I say. Shame on you bro, shame.

Phelot · Jun 3, 2011

I'm not really far enough into the game to judge fully, but like I said, I find the C&C at least a bit more "hidden" than in the first game. It's not as obvious that you're being forced to decide (though some are pretty obvious such as the decision to go to Roche or to Zoltan) but I do have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of the choices I'm making aren't going to make a difference.

Also, the taking control of other random characters is VERY lame. Not liking that one bit. As well as the "forced" cutscenes in which you are forced to walk around a corridor while your buddies babble to you. I'm liking the story well enough, but I'm not feeling the walking around for 5 minutes while the NPC's try to convince me they're real people.

Please let me skip that. Again, if they want this to be a movie then it's gonna be judged as a movie.

Vault Dweller · Jun 3, 2011

Stereotypical Villain said:
Vincent Price Dweller is once again proving why he should receive the same title which was given to Nomansk and Trash a while back.

(And for those of you with assburgers: I'm calling him a tosser. Shine on.)

It's the worst feeling in the world to read that someone doesn't adore a game you love. You feel angry, helpless, betrayed. How can it be? How can you continue to enjoy the game when you know that someone doesn't? Something must be done for such an evil act can never be accepted, not if we want to call our society civilized!

I'm sorry, SV. You don't deserve what I did to you. Nobody does.

Vault Dweller · Jun 3, 2011

Mrowak said:
Not really Vince. I mean, it IS a fork alright. But its a fork of a rather greater scale than what we have seen so far in any western story-driven RPG. In fact the whole quest-structure for act II changes - both main-quests and side-quests are affected. Actually, none of the quests you have on the one side will repeat itself on the other.

I agree. The scale is magnificent. TW2 is a truly amazing action adventure game. :really good for what it is:

As for the fork itself, let's imagine for a second that there was a similar fork in Fallout. When you reach the Hub, you're offered either to stop the mutants threat or to keep looking for a water chip. Would you prefer it to how the game was designed?

I agree with the statment that the story-driven nature of the game somewhat limits player's freedom. However, I cannot say the end result makes the game flawed. Especially when I think of great story-driven RPGs which did C&C part much worse than TW2 such as Betrayal at Krondor, or Planescape.

Betrayal at Krondor was a huge game with tons of places to explore and mini adventures at every step. Planescape had stronger writing and interaction with the world.

The Witcher IS a great game, there is no doubt about it. However, I wouldn't call it an RPG and I wouldn't say that choices & consequences is a strong aspect of the game.

abija said:
It's mostly story driven but they worked quite hard to offer choices as much as possible.

So did the Dragon Age 2 developers. DA2 was loaded with "choices and consequences".

Gragt · Jun 3, 2011

In Act3, thoroughly enjoying the game, and i kinda wonder if some things I did (or didn't) will make a comeback later. I guess I'd need another playthrough to see it.

One of the little touches (the kind that ends up adding a lot) that I love is how most characters have their own way to express themselves with various styles, some words they like to use often, being long or short-winded, etc.

RPG or not, C&C or not, it was ploughing worth the wait.

Vault Dweller · Jun 3, 2011

News from the front, comrades!

I was exploring caves and ran into a huge stone elemental thingy. It was huge and quickly killed me. My first reaction was to come back later when I gain more skills, but then I quickly remembered that it's the twitcher and that I died not because my character lacked skills but because I, the player, wasn't fast enough. So, I reloaded and attacked the beast without hesitation. I slashed and rolled, rolled and slashed, until the elemental was dead. Yay!

The sad truth is that you can kill anything and everyone that the game lets you fight, regardless of how many points, if at all, you have invested. Which does suck.

PS. I found Odrin, the missing drunk. I wasn't looking for him, but the gameworld is fairly small and very corridor-like, not unlike Dragon Age 2, and so I ran into him. Quest updated! The next phase is "take Odrin to his 3 friends; Odrin's friends 0/3". Exciting.

cutterjohn · Jun 3, 2011

Fucking short for $50 and attempting to be an RPG, even though it's a watered down ARPG in reality with a good story and better than average choice based branching...

BUT STILL WAY FUCKING TOO SHORT FOR $50 AND CLAIMING TO BE AN RPG... ffs Drakensang was $30 and 80+ hours... saf state of "RPG"s today even a story based pseudo action RPG...

ALSO TRULY SUCKED LARGE HAIRY DONKEY BALLS that they had no UBER COOL INTRO video this time... they could've made the videos into episodes based upon from what I saw in TW1 and I would've bought them, but no, teh ghey ass faggotry intro in TW2...

Phelot · Jun 3, 2011

Vault Dweller said:
I was exploring caves and ran into a huge stone elemental thingy. It was huge and quickly killed me. My first reaction was to come back later when I gain more skills, but then I quickly remembered that it's the twitcher and that I died not because my character lacked skills but because I, the player, wasn't fast enough. So, I reloaded and attacked the beast without hesitation. I slashed and rolled, rolled and slashed, until the elemental was dead. Yay!

Would you say that Risen is in fact an ARPG in this regard since you are required to level up and invest in points in order to take on certain opponents? Is that what defines a game as an ARPG vs. an Action Avdenture game in your opinion? Just curious.

But yeah, I find that there doesn't seem to be anything you can't kill at any time. I thought I needed to wait and level up to take on the wraiths in the ruined asylum in act 1, but learned the trick to killing them.

abnaxus · Jun 3, 2011

Vault Dweller said:
News from the front, comrades!

I was exploring caves and ran into a huge stone elemental thingy. It was huge and quickly killed me. My first reaction was to come back later when I gain more skills, but then I quickly remembered that it's the twitcher and that I died not because my character lacked skills but because I, the player, wasn't fast enough. So, I reloaded and attacked the beast without hesitation. I slashed and rolled, rolled and slashed, until the elemental was dead. Yay!

The sad truth is that you can kill anything and everyone that the game lets you fight, regardless of how many points, if at all, you have invested. Which does suck.

Luckily then that there are some sections where the game suddenly forces you to play as some fat fuck soldier who can't dodge and moves about as fast as a slug.

Damn

eternal battle

pocahaunted · Jun 3, 2011

Vault Dweller said:
PS. I found Odrin, the missing drunk. I wasn't looking for him, but the gameworld is fairly small and very corridor-like, not unlike Dragon Age 2, and so I ran into him. Quest updated! The next phase is "take Odrin to his 3 friends; Odrin's friends 0/3". Exciting.

See, there's your C&C, don't do that shitty quest - don't get rewarded. :smug:

abija · Jun 3, 2011

The sad truth is that you can kill anything and everyone that the game lets you fight, regardless of how many points, if at all, you have invested. Which does suck.

Not really, those points and the gear affect your damage. Without it you would constantly be doing minimal damage later in the game and some enemies regen.
You could argue the same about both Dragon Ages, abusing kiting,los and agro bounce you would have no problems killing anything as long as you have a minimum of gear to scratch them.

Even assuming that's the case (that you could beat every encounter in starting gear with no points just by being an awesome and persistent roller), it doesn't change the fact that gear and skill points do affect your performance in a very significant way. Which happens to be exactly the point of it.

Vault Dweller · Jun 3, 2011

phelot said:
Would you say that Risen is in fact an ARPG in this regard since you are required to level up and invest in points in order to take on certain opponents? Is that what defines a game as an ARPG vs. an Action Avdenture game in your opinion? Just curious.

Risen is an RPG because the character's skills matter a lot and it's probably impossible to beat the game without investing a single point. Most points, if I recall correctly, made a huge difference, and allowed me to do things I couldn't before.

Even things like crafting weapons. In Witcher 2 all you have to do is buy very affordable recipes, buy affordable components, pay to have your uber (compared to what you can buy) weapon crafted. You have to admit that it's a dumb, least interesting way of doing things. You get something, well, for nothing. Zero effort spent to acquire better weapons. In Ch2 I was short on the silver ore, so I had to run around the camp doing other shit and come back 3 times to buy enough ore to forge a silver sword that was twice as good as what I had in Ch1.

Risen's activity are thoroughly skill-based. Alchemy, crafing, prospecting, gutting animals, lockpicking, stealing, sneaking, etc. It's not the deepest system and it's not without flaws, but it works. In Witcher 2 nothing is skill-based. Much like in most adventure games the player is unrestricted and can do whatever he wants, including going through every chest in every house and tent.

But yeah, I find that there doesn't seem to be anything you can't kill at any time. I thought I needed to wait and level up to take on the wraiths in the ruined asylum in act 1, but learned the trick to killing them.

I don't think there is much of a trick. I killed them easily on Hard, dying only once when I dropped off the ledge and got jumped on before I could get the sword out. Slashing them works, provided you don't forget to roll, of course. Slashing and force pushing them work. Slashing and frying them with igni work too.

The Witcher Officialsky Witcherovda 2 Impressiovna Threadskaia

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Prophet

Commissar, Red Star Studio

Novice

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Erudite

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Commissar, Red Star Studio

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