Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Planescape: Torment

What can change the nature of a man?

  • The Codex

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bethesda

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Oblivion

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • AoD

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Fallout

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • kingcomrade

    Votes: 1 50.0%

  • Total voters
    2

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
This post will contain a lot of SPOILERS, so if you haven't played the game and want to enjoy it, don't read this.
Right. So I've just finished playing Torment, and it was, overall, a great game.
However, it had flaws. The main one being, as everyone knows, the combat. It sucked, preety much, and it was also too hard - but maybe that's because I've never really bothered with it too much. Also, there was too much forced combat - for example, the Curst Prison had you fight all the guards, while it would have made sense to allow you to talk to them.
The second flaw, in my opinion, was the storyline. The beggining especially was the worst. So you talk to Pharod and he tells you where Annah found your body. You go there, thinking you'd find out something important about yourself. Instead, you find a way to get from the Hive to the Lower Ward, because apparently nobody noticed that the fucking Sigil had been separated in two. After you get there, the first part of the storyline doesn't really matter any more. Completly unrelated to what you did before, some guy steals Morte, and then he tells you who to talk to next. You go to Ravel, who sends you to Trias, who sends you to the fiend, who sends you to the pillar, who sends you back to Trias, who tells you how to get in the Fortress of Regrets.
On the other hand, the whole story of the Nameless One, finding out about your past, discovering traces of your previous incarnations everywhere, were all exceptionally done. The characters were as well better than I've seen in any game. (it was good that BIS finally realized that making a character interesting doesn't mean putting a bone through his nose and having him talk in plural). The unique novel-like dialogues, some which contained more narrator comments than actual spoken words, were also great, and immersed me much more than any amount of Patrick Stewart or Lynda Carter voice-overs can do. Not to mention all the visual images done through text, which would have been impossible to do graphically.
 

stargelman

Scholar
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
337
Location
Funky Bebop Land
Aye, the combat wasn't great, and you're right about it being forced on you in some situations. You're also right about that Sigil-in-two things. Despite all that, it's still a really really good game. Especially the dialog: Getting a chance of not only saying something, but also choosing if you actually mean it or if you're lying. And you usually get so many choices. Gotta love that.

It's only a minor thing, but I just have to say it anyway. The alignment system used in PS:T is cool. I'm not usually one for pre-selecting alignments, and that's why it just works for me. You don't choose your alignment, you define it by your actions. In all honesty, I was prognosed with terminal True Neutrality, but I turned out Neutral Good last time I played :) Guess I don't know myself as well as the game does.

BTW: I voted for Oblivion. It did more to convince me than anything anyone here could have ever said.
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
I always come up with Chaotic Neutral. But some times even my evil nature cant perform some of the more vilest deeds. For example the Nodd guy who asks you to find his sister. I just couldnt take his money, not to mention force him to give more. He was just such a sad fellow.

And i voted Oblivion. It changed the way I percieve the game industry.
 

Tekar

Novice
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
32
Location
Belgium
I voted Oblivion because the game made me very cynical towards the gaming industry.

About PS:T:
Despite its many flaws it is still considered the best game ever by many which means that they must have done something very right. Its a mystery to me why not more designers then take over its good parts.
 

Slylandro

Scholar
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
705
I wanted to vote for VD so I chose the Codex because it's basically VD plus a few spammers. :wink:
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
stargelman said:
Aye, the combat wasn't great, and you're right about it being forced on you in some situations. You're also right about that Sigil-in-two things. Despite all that, it's still a really really good game. Especially the dialog: Getting a chance of not only saying something, but also choosing if you actually mean it or if you're lying. And you usually get so many choices. Gotta love that.
Ah yes, I forgot that. Dialogue options were plenty, and each corresponded to a certain personality, something which even Fallout didn't properly have.
And the Truth/Lie thing was also interesting.

stargelman said:
It's only a minor thing, but I just have to say it anyway. The alignment system used in PS:T is cool. I'm not usually one for pre-selecting alignments, and that's why it just works for me. You don't choose your alignment, you define it by your actions. In all honesty, I was prognosed with terminal True Neutrality, but I turned out Neutral Good last time I played :) Guess I don't know myself as well as the game does.
Hmm - so in other D&D games you select your alignment at the start? And what happens if you don't follow it?

stargelman said:
BTW: I voted for Oblivion. It did more to convince me than anything anyone here could have ever said.
Oblivion even changed the nature of Frankie, from rabid Bethesda fan-boy to angry Beth-hating Codexer.

And I forgot to mention the ending. There's a feeling of "I guess that what I wanted, isn't it? Isn't it?..." in it, of both contentment and regret. And I think the best way to end the game is the "nature of a man" way - it was the best suited ending dialogue.
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
Admiral jimbob said:
Hmm - so in other D&D games you select your alignment at the start? And what happens if you don't follow it?

It changes. That's it.

Some classes are restricted. If, for example, your Druid completely looses a part of neautrality(he must be neutral in law/chaos or good/evil), then he will not be able to advance in druid level anymore. Assassins and Blackguards must be evil and Paladins lawful good etc.
 

Claw

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,777
Location
The center of my world.
Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Van Buren, really. I never cared a whole lot about RPGs or a game RPGishness until someone told me about Fallout 3 being in development, the circumstance of its cancellation and the whole interplay fiasco.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
"Despite its many flaws it is still considered the best game ever by many"

Define 'many'.

Anyways, PST is a good game; but REALLY overrated.


"And what happens if you don't follow it?"

Depends on the DM.

Possibilities range from nothing to losing a level to being hunted by former allies to turning into a duck.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Volourn said:
"Despite its many flaws it is still considered the best game ever by many"

Define 'many'.

Anyways, PST is a good game; but REALLY overrated.
Which one of the 'many's?
Also, how can a commercial failure be overrated?
 
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
23
Location
Oklahoma
Planescape is one of my favorite games ever. I love the way the dialogue works; few games come close to having as many options for dialogue, and of the ones that do, the dialogue is meaningless.

Sure, the combat isn't the best, but if I wanted good combat I'd play fucking Far Cry.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
omg_laserz_pewpewpew said:
Planescape is one of my favorite games ever. I love the way the dialogue works; few games come close to having as many options for dialogue, and of the ones that do, the dialogue is meaningless.

Sure, the combat isn't the best, but if I wanted good combat I'd play fucking Far Cry.
Planescape didn't need good combat, but it needed decent combat. Or they should have made it easy enough so that it woudln't really matter.
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
Lumpy said:
omg_laserz_pewpewpew said:
Planescape is one of my favorite games ever. I love the way the dialogue works; few games come close to having as many options for dialogue, and of the ones that do, the dialogue is meaningless.

Sure, the combat isn't the best, but if I wanted good combat I'd play fucking Far Cry.
Planescape didn't need good combat, but it needed decent combat. Or they should have made it easy enough so that it woudln't really matter.

I cant see how you can say that Torments combat was difficult. Then I assume the battles of BG 2 were near impossible for you?
 

stargelman

Scholar
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
337
Location
Funky Bebop Land
Yeah well, not really difficult. If you had problems coping, you could always just send in TNO and leave the rest of the party behind. Not a very cool way to do things, but it'd work I suppose.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,708
I don't think Torment had bad combat per-se, it just needed better enemies and more exiting combat situations. In truth, the system itself was no worst nor better then what Infinity could offer, just on a more modest scale (but with better eye candy). The problem was that killing brainless thugs or sewer worms isn't exactly my idea of fun.
 

Cycloptis

Scholar
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
127
Location
Dead
The problem with Planescape's combat was that there was little in the way of ranged combat, and given that the screen was always zoomed in farther than any other Infinity game, scrolling got annoying, fast.

That was pretty much my only real problem with the game. And perhaps the Curst quests.

I voted the Codex. It squeezes you like a lemon until your sour RPG innocence is drained, then subsequently eaten on a salad.
 

Binary

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
901
Location
Trinsic
Lumpy said:
Torment, and it was, overall, a great game.

Lumpy said:
the combat. It sucked, preety much, and it was also too hard

Lumpy said:
Also, there was too much forced combat

Lumpy said:
The second flaw, in my opinion, was the storyline. The beggining especially was the worst.

Ok so the game is great but two of the most important things on a RPG (storyline and combat) are crap.

I see your point. Not.

Fact is, the storyline is crap (fedex quests BG style), the combat was crap, the RPG part (character classes and statistics) was crap.

I wonder if people praising PST ever played a real RPG?

Ultima 1-7?
Might & Magic 1-5?
Wizardry 1-6?
Magic Candle 1-3?
 

NoisyKillerHPB

Scholar
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
201
Location
a pillar of skulls
This is my favorite game in the world. The setting/atmosphere and writing are just fuckin cool. The NPC's have actual personalities and you actually grow to like/dislike them. I hated the combat just as much as any other D&Dish style combat, I don't think it was worse than usual.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
"Also, how can a commercial failure be overrated?"

Commericality is not the only way a game can be rated.

The game gets lots of praise. Lots of the pirase is either undeserved or gone overboard.

"This game is the best game ever."

No, it's not.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,708
Binary said:
Ok so the game is great but two of the most important things on a RPG (storyline and combat) are crap.

Read again: the game is great. That's all you need. Who gives a fuck about RPGs?

As for the story (not sure how fed ex quests figure into it), i think it was as good as it ever got in a video game, better then most fantasy novels (which i tend not to read, if i can help it) if i have to say the truth.
 

whitemithrandir

Erudite
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
1,116
Volourn said:
"Also, how can a commercial failure be overrated?"

Commericality is not the only way a game can be rated.

The game gets lots of praise. Lots of the pirase is either undeserved or gone overboard.

"This game is the best game ever."

No, it's not.

Opinions from a Canadian counts for jack shit.

j/k.

PS: j/k stands for just killyourself.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Binary said:
Ok so the game is great but two of the most important things on a RPG (storyline and combat) are crap.

I see your point. Not.

Fact is, the storyline is crap (fedex quests BG style), the combat was crap, the RPG part (character classes and statistics) was crap.
Moron.
First, storyline and combat are hardly the most important parts of an RPG. Storyline is the most important part of Adventure games, Combat - of action and FPS games.
In RPGs, the most important part is (obviously) the part that allows you to Role-play - choices. Which Planescape did great.
"The RPG part (character classes and statistics)" = omg RPG is a game where u have lvls and gain XP and havv a class.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom