Do you prefer TB or RT combat?

Shannow · May 18, 2011

We had the toll before but I'm too lazy to search and considering the newfags results may differ this time around.

Personally, I'm fine with both. Gothic 2 is great. Wizardry 8 is great. They're just different.

Clockwork Knight · May 18, 2011

Great TB > RT > Shitty TB. Chose first option, but I believe everyone would choose that anyway.

Btw, turn-based doesn't automatically translate to "brains" as high-powered characters in a TB game tend to be able to rape everything wih ease.

Metro · May 18, 2011

RTwP is an abomination.

sea · May 18, 2011

I really do not mind either one, but in the end would probably pick a good real-time system over a good turn-based one. Solely personal preference; I have more background in action games and shooters than I do in RPGs or strategy-type games. I enjoy both turn-based and real-time combat, and sometimes even the option to choose between them is nice for the sake of variety (Arcanum, for instance, lets you clean up low-level monsters much faster, and turn-based works much better for more challenging fights), and real-time with pause is also a good compromise for the same reasons, but can never quite match the same depth of either system, even if done well. In the end I'm more concerned with story, world, characters and all that. For me combat is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

J_C · May 18, 2011

I choose RTwP. Problem? :troll:

SpaceKungFuMan · May 18, 2011

I think you forgot to label the first and third answers as faggot answers too. Turn Based is clearly the best way to have combat play out in a numbers based system, since its the only way to make sure that all characters have the same number of opportunities to act regardless of who is controlling them. I don't even think there is room to debate this. You want something other than stats to resolve combat, go play an action game, with twitch combat that's actually fun.

Kraszu · May 18, 2011

SpaceKungFuMan said:
I think you forgot to label the first and third answers as faggot answers too. Turn Based is clearly the best way to have combat play out in a numbers based system, since its the only way to make sure that all characters have the same number of opportunities to act regardless of who is controlling them. I don't even think there is room to debate this. You want something other than stats to resolve combat, go play an action game, with twitch combat that's actually fun.

Gothic combat is actually fun. The correlation between stats, and combat also seem good to me, you can see/feel big improvement as you get stronger.

Kraszu · May 19, 2011

sea said:
(Arcanum, for instance, lets you clean up low-level monsters much faster, and turn-based works much better for more challenging fights)

Any game with TB combat should have option to turn the animations off. In before but you could select they speed, and only wait like 5 minutes for the whole city to move on fastest in FO.

tindrli · May 19, 2011

i just have one thing to say.. TB.. and thats it.. and just for the record, those two just cant be compared in any fuckin way

SpaceKungFuMan · May 19, 2011

Kraszu said:
SpaceKungFuMan said:

I think you forgot to label the first and third answers as faggot answers too. Turn Based is clearly the best way to have combat play out in a numbers based system, since its the only way to make sure that all characters have the same number of opportunities to act regardless of who is controlling them. I don't even think there is room to debate this. You want something other than stats to resolve combat, go play an action game, with twitch combat that's actually fun.

Click to expand...

Gothic combat is actually fun. The correlation between stats, and combat also seem good to me, you can see/feel big improvement as you get stronger.

But you can also have excellent stats and suck at aiming, or have great twitch skills and win fight with low stats, no? That is exactly what trivializing stats means. Your stats represent who your character is as a person in the game world, and anytime you throw in the external factor of player skill, you are effectively destroying or at least unbalancing the cohesion of the game world.

sgc_meltdown · May 19, 2011

there is a lot of wisdom on the information cyberhighway on this already

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/2592 ... alTime.php
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... &forum=109
http://www.convinceme.net/debate/2046/r ... based.html
http://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/7896/?p=1

Kraszu · May 19, 2011

SpaceKungFuMan said:
But you can also have excellent stats and suck at aiming, or have great twitch skills and win fight with low stats, no?

Some theoretical person can but that isn't the case for me.

SpaceKungFuMan said:
That is exactly what trivializing stats means. Your stats represent who your character is as a person in the game world, and anytime you throw in the external factor of player skill, you are effectively destroying or at least unbalancing the cohesion of the game world.

So they don't trivialize the game for me. For wast majority of people the problem that you present doesn't exist.

Orgasm · May 19, 2011

I prefer the challenging and working one.

SpaceKungFuMan · May 19, 2011

Kraszu said:
SpaceKungFuMan said:

But you can also have excellent stats and suck at aiming, or have great twitch skills and win fight with low stats, no?

Click to expand...

Some theoretical person can but that isn't the case for me.

SpaceKungFuMan said:

That is exactly what trivializing stats means. Your stats represent who your character is as a person in the game world, and anytime you throw in the external factor of player skill, you are effectively destroying or at least unbalancing the cohesion of the game world.

Click to expand...

So they don't trivialize the game for me. For wast majority of people the problem that you present doesn't exist.

There could be a bug in a game that makes all stats literally meaningless, and if it is an action rpg, the vast majority of players would probably never realize it or think it was a problem. Does that make it ok for the game to have the bug? The whole point of having statistics is to represent who your character is in the world, and the further you get from that, the less it makes sense to even have them.

PorkaMorka · May 19, 2011

Turn based has been done successfully a lot more often than real time with pause has. But they're both attempts at doing very similar things, and real time with pause can work pretty well for a classic RPG. Additionally, there is a lot of unexplored potential for improving real time with pause.

Action RPGs however would not be in the same genre as regular RPGs under any sane classification system. They do not provide similar gameplay. I personally don't think they hold a candle to regular RPGs and of course the action gameplay they contain isn't really on par with the best proper action games.

Johannes · May 19, 2011

I prefer good challenging combat, whatever type.

SpaceKungFuMan said:
I don't even think there is room to debate this.

This thread alone proves you wrong.

Roguey · May 19, 2011

Ideally I'd like to choose the first option, however there's never been a real-time combat system in a RPG that I felt was "well done," only adequate at best. It's some hypothetical thing that doesn't exist and likely won't exist in the foreseeable future, so it seems more like a fool's errand without making them into action games with leveling mechanics.

Phage · May 19, 2011

In RPGs I prefer turn based. Have yet to play a real time RPG with truly good combat - would love to hear some examples/suggestions though.

DakaSha · May 19, 2011

TB all the way.

sea · May 19, 2011

SpaceKungFuMan said:
But you can also have excellent stats and suck at aiming, or have great twitch skills and win fight with low stats, no? That is exactly what trivializing stats means. Your stats represent who your character is as a person in the game world, and anytime you throw in the external factor of player skill, you are effectively destroying or at least unbalancing the cohesion of the game world.

Problem is that there is always some level of player skill. Character skill is the "dividing line" in the sense that one can't do what their character can't, but ultimately you're always going to be limited to what the player can or can't do as well. For instance, in a turn-based game, I can win or lose due to making stupid mistakes in combat, or not understanding the rules, even if my character has a high intelligence score. How is that much different from being skilled enough to win in a real-time setting when you might have lower stats?

The distinction here isn't in player skill vs. character skill, it's in what skills the game demands of its players - tactical/strategic ones, or physical/reflexive ones. Character skill is ultimately going to place hard limits on what the player can do, but it is never going to outright remove player skill - which is good, because it wouldn't make for a very fun game if you could max out stat X and breeze through everything.

Kraszu · May 19, 2011

SpaceKungFuMan said:
There could be a bug in a game that makes all stats literally meaningless, and if it is an action rpg, the vast majority of players would probably never realize it or think it was a problem. Does that make it ok for the game to have the bug?

People wouldn't notice that increasing stats doesn't change anything in game? Not sure what you are talking about, you are seriously comparing real difficulty that makes it practically impossible for most people to kill at low level strong enemy to not noticing that the stats don't change anything? Not sure if serious.

SpaceKungFuMan said:
The whole point of having statistics is to represent who your character is in the world, and the further you get from that, the less it makes sense to even have them.

And it works like that in Gothic games for wast majority of the players. I think that you have problems with distinguishing a problem that exist only in theory for wast majority of players from one that influences the players.

MMXI · May 19, 2011

Thread sucks and OP is a faggot. The second option is clearly a subset of the first option because an action RPG can't be turn-based. A better poll would include an option for: "Turn-based all the way, with turn-based RPGs being developed in place of action RPGs." I would choose that option.

:rpgcodex:

Only faggots like real-time combat in RPGs.

Serious_Business · May 19, 2011

Since I am the most Reasonable man here, let me give you the most Reasonable answer :

derpa

Mastermind · May 19, 2011

SpaceKungFuMan said:
I think you forgot to label the first and third answers as faggot answers too. Turn Based is clearly the best way to have combat play out in a numbers based system, since its the only way to make sure that all characters have the same number of opportunities to act regardless of who is controlling them. I don't even think there is room to debate this. You want something other than stats to resolve combat, go play an action game, with twitch combat that's actually fun.

Player intelligence will resolve combat and it has nothing to do with stats. Dumbfuck detected.

Mastermind · May 19, 2011

MMXI said:
Thread sucks and OP is a faggot. The second option is clearly a subset of the first option because an action RPG can't be turn-based.

Clearly you've never played the original Fallout. :smug:

Do you prefer TB or RT combat?

Brains or twitching?

Well done TB for RPGs, well done RT for aRPGs

TB all the way, babe

The hand is faster than the eye *twitch*

RTwP combines the advantages of both (faggot answer)

Poll lacks option, OP is a faggot *KC*

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The hand is faster than the eye twitch

Poll lacks option, OP is a faggot KC