The worst game ever and start of the decline

[Awor Szurkrarz]

1st person or 3rd person is a matter of taste, has nothing to do with dumbing down or the decline. Sure the codex looks down on first person, but this is only because there are more people here who grew up with Interplay RPGs, and very few who got into groundbreaking games like Ultima Underworld.

I had an original boxed version of Ultima Underworld II - I can't really say I liked it - mainly because of the LARPing and dungeon crawling. I hate dungeons.
Generally, I don't find LARP simulators attractive, even if they are really good.

 

[denizsi]

Did someone just... fart?

 

[Astaroth]

Oblivion. Definitely Oblivion.
I wanted to puke.....

Or maybe that was Morrowind.....

No.It was Oblivion. The original sinner.

 

[Wyrmlord]

1st person or 3rd person is a matter of taste, has nothing to do with dumbing down or the decline. Sure the codex looks down on first person, but this is only because there are more people here who grew up with Interplay RPGs, and very few who got into groundbreaking games like Ultima Underworld.

I had an original boxed version of Ultima Underworld II - I can't really say I liked it - mainly because of the LARPing and dungeon crawling. I hate dungeons.
Generally, I don't find LARP simulators attractive, even if they are really good.

Play the first Ultima Underworld.

Ignore the second completely.

I promise you, the first game is one of the most amazing experiences in gaming I have ever seen. The very feeling of walking down into a dark room inside the subterranean world, turning the torch on, and finding yourself surrounded by dwarves in all directions is unforgettable. As much as it is to find a remote and hidden part of the area, where you jump from pillar to pillar, avoid falling into the streams, and find a closed in area with a shrine for blessings.

It is like what computer roleplaying games would have become if exploration became the biggest, most important, and only aspect of them. :D

 

[Astaroth]

Anyone played Hexen/Hexen II?

AS much as i love exploration, that game gave me a headache....

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

It was Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss. It seems that for some reason I have mistaken it for 2.
Anyway, I really dislike stuff like jumping from pillar to pillar and other arcade sequences in non-platform games, especially in cRPGs.

Also, most of early LARP simulators and FPS give me a motion sickness.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Yeah, but I somewhat forgave those "arcade" bits, because they were based more on your Jump skill than your ability to press "jump" on time. :D

Besides, jumping just worked by double-clicking in that game, so it seems more like a basic interaction mechanic than a twitching contest.

 

[Wyrmlord]

"Dark Sun"

Exception that proves the rule. Most 'old skool' RPGs didn't know what C&C or role-playing was. They were, by and large, dungeon crawls. Period..

There was a lot more shit in the old days of gaming. This is a fact.

What matters is whether the game was fun or not fun.

And seeing that you played all those shit dungeon crawls quite thoroughly, I can't help but imagine that they were fun for you.

Anyway, seeing the modern era of RPGs, I see only exceptions that prove the rule.

BioWare was a developer of games like Shattered Steel and MDK2 before it got into RPGs. The Tim Cain gang was into developing games like Stonekeep and Starfleet Academy before it got into RPGs.

Maybe as per your standards, they satisfied criteria for RPGs better, but THESE people are what define the RPG genre? People who were never into making RPGs in the first place, and just entered the scene with their own brand of a game, which ended up being labelled as RPGs, while Sir Tech and Strategic Simulations Incorporated, which had a history of developing computer roleplaying games, are to be marginalized and ignored in the face of spontaneously appearing new competitors?

I mean, to give an example, if we have two companies with a history of making automobiles for 20 years, and suddenly, a company comes out with an electronic scootie, do we go up and say, "This is what an automobile should be! This is what an automobile always was. All the previous generations of automobiles weren't even automobiles. They were junk. All the previous generations of automobiles fail, because they did not have the essential features that weren't introduced until two second ago!"?

 

[janjetina]

Maybe as per your standards, they satisfied criteria for RPGs better, but THESE people are what define the RPG genre? People who were never into making RPGs in the first place, and just entered the scene with their own brand of a game, which ended up being labelled as RPGs, while Sir Tech and Strategic Simulations Incorporated, which had a history of developing computer roleplaying games, are to be marginalized and ignored in the face of spontaneously appearing new competitors?

You have deliberately omitted Origin.
Reactive setting, that reflected player choices was not Tim Cain's invention and is not a novelty. It has been there since Ultima IV (we're talkiing 1985-1992 era here) - moral choices have been a central part of the series until it turned to shit with the 8th installment. This is enough of a tradition to be one of the elements define the genre, I think.

Considering Diablo, its lack of C&C isn't the biggest culprit for it being unfit to be considered a RPG (it is an action oriented dungeon crawler, whose high point was the atmosphere, i.e. visuals and sounds). Low attention was given to the story and the setting was practically nonexistent, but the biggest problems were character system and combat. Diablo's character system is extremely dumbed down compared to RPG character systems and combat depends on player's physical skill. The latter alone practically disqualifies it from being a RPG, unless other elements are fully fleshed out and dominant (which is a rare case, like Bloodlines).

But that's tangential. The core of the problem lies in the "cinematic" feature, which has become a new buzzword. Gaming journalist are harping about it being a required element for a RPG, citing games like Ass Effect and Dragon Age as an example. Movie, as a medium, is non-interactive and contains much less amount of information than a video game or a book. Yet, the tendency to make games similar to movies, in pace and spirit, is present in modern gaming. Dialogue wheel from Ass Effect and dialogue stances from Arse Proctocol are devised to accomplish a "cinematic" dialogue. Taking control out of the player's hands and replacing gameplay with FMV sequences goes hand in hand with that approach. Dumbing down of the underlying character system, combat system and dialogue system necessarily follow.

It is interesting to note that this approach has earned Psychic Detective an unequivocal derision from the gaming press in 1995, while Ass Deffect gets universal praise from the same sources for doing exactly the same.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Low attention was given to the story and the setting was practically nonexistent

Eat a bowl of dicks.

 

[janjetina]

Low attention was given to the story and the setting was practically nonexistent

Eat a bowl of dicks.

Go back to 4chan where you belong, retard.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Low attention was given to the story and the setting was practically nonexistent

Eat a bowl of dicks.

Go back to 4chan where you belong, retard.

I see you don't limit your "I LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SHIT I KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT, SUBSTITUTING MY IGNORANCE WITH HEARSAYS FROM THE INTERNET" attitude only to videogames.

That's good, you can eat two bowls of dicks, cumguzzler.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Forgot to take your tablets, eh?

 

[TNO]

BRO!

BLOBERT MY BRO YOUVE BEEN AWAY FOR AGES BRO THIS IS THE NEW SHIT NOW. ALWAYS INCLINE AND GOOD FOR WHAT IT IS AND STREAMLINING AMIRITE LOLOLOL11!!

SRSLY THOUGH ITS LIKE GAMEFAGS OR BIOWHORE BOARDS NOW. THANK FUCK WERE AROUND TO LET THESE FAGGOTS KNOW WHAT GAMES THEY SHOULD LIKE BRO AND HOW THE STUFF THEY LIKE IS B/S/B AND HOW THEYRE DUMB AND WERE SMRT. I HOPE WE DONT GET DROWNED IN THE NEW SHIT. TIMESLIKETHESETHATTRYMENSSOULS


DECLINE STARTED WHEN THE PS1 GEN CONSOLES WERE RELEASED. MEANT GAMES STARTED BEING MADE FOR HOS INSTEAD OF BROS.

 

[Surgey]

Let's be honest here. No matter what any game tries, they still all suffer from the same failing. To be fair though, not every game can be Mothership Zeta.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Forgot to take your tablets, eh?

I've been browsing my old posts yesterday and I realized I became too much of a regular here. It's time to get back to the basics, bitches.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Exactly! I believe that's called self-reflection, and average people are not capable of it.

 

[KalosKagathos]

:facepalm: it seems you have missed what we have been discussing all along, that almost all new games are shooters, and RPGs are shooters in disguise. Not what you imply here.

This is exactly what I ranted about. "Action games and shooters in disguise" like Mass Effect, Fallout 3 and Oblivion are RPGs. Incredibly bad RPGs, but RPGs nevertheless.

 

[Ebonsword]

Hey Azrael.

So this feeling of entering a store to buy videogames, and only feeling dismay at the giant assortment of mediocrities - it has always been there, hasn't it?

No.

I remember going to the video game store (actually, I think it was a B. Dalton Books--my, how times have changed) back in the mid-80's and trying to decide between the following games:

(1) one of the Wizardry games (forget which one)
(2) The Bard's Tale
(3) Phantasie
(4) Questron
(5) Wizard's Crown
(6) Ultima IV

All of these games came out within a year or two of each other, and most of them still hold up today. (I ended up going home with Phantasie that day, because I think it was cheaper than the others, beings slightly older).

 

[janjetina]

Is System Shock 2 a RPG?

 

[Volourn]

"And seeing that you played all those shit dungeon crawls quite thoroughly, I can't help but imagine that they were fun for you. "

You are an idiot. I didnt' say they were all shit. Some were enjoyable, others were not. Hell, the GB games were basicaslly a crapshoot espciially the later ones which were mostly shit hence them dying.

People like you are just blocking out the TONS of shitty games released at that time.

Plus, I was a little kiddie at the time so it likely wasn't a hard thing to please me. FFS One of my fave games at tyhe time was one called Megamania and all it was a silly little shoot the asteroids junk. And, it took maybe an hour to beat. LMFAO