Wildman Discussion Thread

[imweasel]

The problem here is that Kickstarter projects need to be nerdy. Cavemen aren't nerdy.

All they had to do was choose a scenario that does not have anything to do with cavemen or dinosaurs. Anything would have been ok, just not those two.

So what did they do? They chose a scenario wth cavemen. M:

 

[HobGoblin42]

Lately, Kickstarter has been praised by the media as the big new thing that changes everything inside the games industry. Developers don't need publisher anymore, the gamers themselves fund projects now, everybody will be happy except investors and big bad publishers. A brave new world.

Actually, this assumption seems to be valid for a few lucky developers only. Unfortunately, Kickstarter doesn't allow me to list failed projects but I can imagine that the most recent game projects on KS failed (Gambitious and IndieGogo are failures in principle). And in contrast to GDG, the most involved studios didn't go public with their failure - they just disappeared. The kickstarter fatigue is real and the number of people who are actually willing to pledge is very limited.

 

[toro]

The kickstarter fatigue is real and the number of people who are actually willing to pledge is very limited.

True. Personally I'm waiting for DB's adventure game, W2, Hero-U, PE, Grim Dawn, Dead State to be released before I drop another nickel on KS campaigns.

Maybe I would pledge for Torment's spiritual sequel but that's about it.

 

[DeepOcean]

So many publishers don't want to make games anymore that aren't established franchises. They don't want to take risks that puts their company at financial risk. They won't touch a new game idea like Wildman. That is why Chris is asking you the fans for help. GPG wants to make a game for the fans.

Is it really such a bold new idea though? Summoner and Demigod should be comparable games? At least Demigod.
If they were making a game for the fans, shouldn't they be making either a DS-clone or an RTS?

Some people live in complete denial.

???
Do you want to die?

I can't believe this piece of ARPG shit reached almost 1/4 of its goal. I just wanna track down those 5K backers and smash their xbox on their stupid head.

I think they will make their goal, but not their true goal (which is probably around twice the amount).
Hopefully they'll get a ton of shit if they cancel it because they don't reach more than their initial target goal. That goal should be the goal.

I wasn't talking about you. It was about Raw fanboyism.

 

[Spectacle]

Kickstarter is not intended to be corporate welfare to bail out a bankrupt studio.

You would be surprised how many companies use it for exactly that. Do you really think a CEO or financial department or whoever is in charge would, in a sane state of mind, crowd-fund a game? Noone wants to do that. Kickstarter is a last resort.

How does that make sense? What CEO will refuse to consider an opportunity for free money?

 

[Kane]

I wasn't talking about you.

Zed just wants to post something too.

Because I am nice I'll explain it to you one last time. You claim CT is just into these whole MOBA shenanigans because of the money, when he previously basically sold out his company just to make a MOBA. The fraction of GPG and Uber was largely caused by demigod, and the collapse of the company now also has its roots in GPG going financially overboard for Demigod. You're painting a narrative here that isn't just completely untrue but the opposite of what actually happend.

 

[Kane]

Kickstarter is not intended to be corporate welfare to bail out a bankrupt studio.

You would be surprised how many companies use it for exactly that. Do you really think a CEO or financial department or whoever is in charge would, in a sane state of mind, crowd-fund a game? Noone wants to do that. Kickstarter is a last resort.

How does that make sense? What CEO will refuse to consider an opportunity for free money?

A good one.

 

[almondblight]

Is it just me, or did Wildman just drop 10k since yesterday?

Not good, not good at all.

Not sure but I recall about 24 hours ago they were at 230k or so. So, at the very least they've completely stagnated but, yes, I'm sure people are pulling their pledges.

What are you guys talking about? Kicktraq's showing that yesterday was there third best day so far with 56k raised. The "Oh please save my employees!" tear job seems to have worked (that, and the game media shilling for them).

Ah, and I'm pretty sure that the video he posted is BS. If he's contractually obligated to pay severance or unpaid PTO, it's not something he can just opt out of. The stupid "I'm not going to do that to my employees...I won't play a card game with their lives, damnit!" is really "yeah, I didn't want to open myself up to lawsuits or be forced into filing for bankruptcy just to keep everyone here another month."

 

[DeepOcean]

Is it just me, or did Wildman just drop 10k since yesterday?

Not good, not good at all.

Not sure but I recall about 24 hours ago they were at 230k or so. So, at the very least they've completely stagnated but, yes, I'm sure people are pulling their pledges.

What are you guys talking about? Kicktraq's showing that yesterday was there third best day so far with 56k raised. The "Oh please save my employees!" tear job seems to have worked (that, and the game media shilling for them).

Ah, and I'm pretty sure that the video he posted is BS. If he's contractually obligated to pay severance or unpaid PTO, it's not something he can just opt out of. The stupid "I'm not going to do that to my employees...I won't play a card game with their lives, damnit!" is really "yeah, I didn't want to open myself up to lawsuits or be forced into filing for bankruptcy just to keep everyone here another month."

It is depressing how people can be easily manipulated, his emotional manipulation act is at least better than the Obama fake tears.

 

[Kane]

Ah, and I'm pretty sure that the video he posted is BS. If he's contractually obligated to pay severance or unpaid PTO, it's not something he can just opt out of. The stupid "I'm not going to do that to my employees...I won't play a card game with their lives, damnit!" is really "yeah, I didn't want to open myself up to lawsuits or be forced into filing for bankruptcy just to keep everyone here another month."

It's stunning how you arrive at that garbage even in the light of 38 studios recent shutdown. Yeah you're contractually bound yadda yadda, but guess what, if I stretch the time before bankruptcy to the last minute, noone is getting paid anything. That's how business in the real world works.

 

[almondblight]

It's stunning how you arrive at that garbage even in the light of 38 studios recent shutdown. Yeah you're contractually bound yadda yadda, but guess what, if I stretch the time before bankruptcy to the last minute, noone is getting paid anything. That's how business in the real world works.

Yeah man...stunning though it may be, you do realize that actual bankruptcy is something businesses try to avoid? It's not simply a matter of shouting out "I'm bankrupt losers!", walking away, then picking up some business elsewhere. I don't know if you've noticed, but 38 Studios isn't doing a hell of a lot right now.

 

[Kane]

Yeah man...stunning though it may be, you do realize that actual bankruptcy is something businesses try to avoid? It's not simply a matter of shouting out "I'm bankrupt losers!", walking away, then picking up some business elsewhere. I don't know if you've noticed, but 38 Studios isn't doing a hell of a lot right now.

Great, but what has that do with your initial point, that employers are somehow bound by law to pay PTO, severance etc.? When they file bankruptcy you end with empty hands, unless the company decides to gracefully shutdown before they can't pay you anymore. In a fairytale cloudcastle world that's how sound bussinessmen should take action no doubt, but here in reality companies usually give fuck all about their employees.
Sure, there will be some litigiations down the road, but when the company simply has no assets to liquidate anymore or in the ever more popular scenario that the heads ran off with the money, you won't get anything. And even if there's something left to liquidate you will receive your outstanding payments many months later and probably not even get all the money. Especially for people with families this is unacceptable.

A graceful shutdown is not just sound business ethics but much less headache and angry shouting involved for anyone; it's the proper way to go, even if it makes some sperglords on the internet angry.

 

[GaffQ]

He'd also piss off a lot of people and it would make it a little harder for him to work in that industry.

 

[Kane]

He'd also piss off a lot of people and it would make it a little harder for him to work in that industry.

I dunno about the games industry specifically, but from where I come from, pissing off people seems to be a bonus when applying to your next manager position.

 

[Spectacle]

How does that make sense? What CEO will refuse to consider an opportunity for free money?

A good one.

Explain why.

 

[Kane]

How does that make sense? What CEO will refuse to consider an opportunity for free money?

A good one.

Explain why.

There is no such thing as ~free money~.

 

[almondblight]

Great, but what has that do with your initial point, that employers are somehow bound by law to pay PTO, severance etc.? When they file bankruptcy you end with empty hands, unless the company decides to gracefully shutdown before they can't pay you anymore. In a fairytale cloudcastle world that's how sound bussinessmen should take action no doubt, but here in reality companies usually give fuck all about their employees.
Sure, there will be some litigiations down the road, but when the company simply has no assets to liquidate anymore or in the ever more popular scenario that the heads ran off with the money, you won't get anything. And even if there's something left to liquidate you will receive your outstanding payments many months later and probably not even get all the money. Especially for people with families this is unacceptable.

You do realize that "I'm doing this for my employees...I love them too damn much!" and "I'm doing this so that I'm not forced to liquidate my company" aren't exactly the same thing, right? We all seem to agree that it's less of a headache for everyone involved (and I'd use slightly stronger word when talking about a bankruptcy). So I should be impressed that Taylor is doing what's best for himself, instead of screwing himself over to screw his employees? His video acts like this was merely a matter of him choosing to help out his employees or himself; this isn't true.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Let's face it raw, both MotB and New Vegas are better than anything GPG ever produced, and I actually liked Supcom quite a bit (and consider TA a major candidate for Best RTS Ever). I honestly fail to see how this whole project has even the slightest potential for incline. There's enough crappy mobas on the market as is.

 

[Kane]

Let's face it raw, both MotB and New Vegas are better than anything GPG ever produced, and I actually liked Supcom quite a bit (and consider TA a major candidate for Best RTS Ever). I honestly fail to see how this whole project has even the slightest potential for incline. There's enough crappy mobas on the market as is.

For me GPG is basically OE for RTS. I have played a lot of SupCom and I bought Demigod full-price. Put some time into it too, but as others have pointed out, the shitty networking is what killed the game. Wrt Wildman, it's like with O:E. I don't really care but we need people around who do good RTS/RPG. And hey, maybe it even ends up being good?
I also played Dungeon Siege back in Middle-School. There are people who absolutely love that game. I am not that big of a fan of aRPGs to begin with, but saying I get no enjoyment out of them would be a lie.

 

[Kane]

You do realize that "I'm doing this for my employees...I love them too damn much!" and "I'm doing this so that I'm not forced to liquidate my company" aren't exactly the same thing, right?

I know that what CT is doing should be usus, but in reality it isn't. It's sad but that's how it is. What I don't understand is that people are angry at him for doing what a good bussiness man would do. It makes no sense.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I dunno about that. With Obsidian or InXile, I do feel like they actually want to make these kind of games, but no publisher will actually fund them. So, if W2 or PE sell decently, they may well invest the profit into more of the same, which is good for us. With Chris Taylor, I don't know whether he'd start making good RTSes again if given the chance.

 

[Kane]

I dunno about that. With Obsidian or InXile, I do feel like they actually want to make these kind of games, but no publisher will actually fund them. So, if W2 or PE sell decently, they may well invest the profit into more of the same, which is good for us. With Chris Taylor, I don't know whether he'd start making good RTSes again if given the chance.

CT doesn't just make RTS, the first game he made with his new company was Dungeon Siege, wich is an aRPG. He went into heavy dept over Demigod, which is a MOBA. I don't get why you'd think GPG doesn't want to do exactly the kind of game they have been doing all along, but with OE it's all somehow different. Seems a bit retarded. Is Avellone giving you a raging boner?

 

[almondblight]

What I don't understand is that people are angry at him for doing what a good bussiness man would do. It makes no sense.

I must have missed all the "Taylor should let the company go bankrupt" posts.

 

[random_encounter]

Lately, Kickstarter has been praised by the media as the big new thing that changes everything inside the games industry. Developers don't need publisher anymore, the gamers themselves fund projects now, everybody will be happy except investors and big bad publishers. A brave new world.

Actually, this assumption seems to be valid for a few lucky developers only. Unfortunately, Kickstarter doesn't allow me to list failed projects but I can imagine that the most recent game projects on KS failed (Gambitious and IndieGogo are failures in principle). And in contrast to GDG, the most involved studios didn't go public with their failure - they just disappeared. The kickstarter fatigue is real and the number of people who are actually willing to pledge is very limited.

It's not going to "change everything", but Kickstarter and other associated tools make it plausible for a few established devs to function as indies in getting their GREATEST IDEAS EVAR IGNORED BY BIG AAA COMPANIES funded by like-minded individuals instead of idling for the next contract. There's a lot of love for tabletop and card game ideas on Kickstarter along with vidya games, but there's also a lot of shitty proposals that deserve to get buried (the one by Brathwaite and Hall comes to mind).

Wildman just...doesn't appeal to me at all. Honestly, I'm just surprised that GPG has lasted as long as it did.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Did GPGs RTS's sell decent?

Because it appears to me that trying to create something which you are bad at, like pseudo-rpgs, is a bad move if their core competence lies at RTSes