Jade Empire impressions

[suibhne]

Ladonna, I can't speak for others, but I play games like Oblivion because I care about the short-term market conditions and the long-term potential for videogames; I like to observe the trainwrecks and be reasonably well-grounded in my discussions of good and bad game design.

As for JE again, another complaint I should've added to the original list of impressions is the "tutorial" section. On the one hand, the tutorial is integrated well enough into the game that it doesn't stick out as a tutorial when you're first playing; on the other hand, the introductory segment of the game feels enough like a tutorial that it's frustrating to repeat. It's probably no surprise that this reminds me of Irenicus' dungeon at the opening of BG2 and of the ship at the beginning of KotOR.

 

[Texas Red]

Suibhine, whats wrong with Irenicus' dungeon? It isnt the tutorial. Me and I believe many others actually like it because of all the whacky and fascinating things you can find there. Its *dark*.

 

[Volourn]

WTD wins this round. irenicus' dungeon is not a tutorial. Not even close to being one. BG2 has a wholly seperate tutorial. Irencius' dungeon can be cosnidered the prologue, if anything. It's also one of the best openings of any game.

KOTOR's opening/tutorial/prologue was poor though.

JE's tutorial consisted of exactly one fight. Not exactly a big deal. L0LLERZ!


So, in finality, I give Suinhne 1/3 which is a 33% failing.


"Ladonna, I can't speak for others, but I play games like Oblivion because I care about the short-term market conditions and the long-term potential for videogames; I like to observe the trainwrecks and be reasonably well-grounded in my discussions of good and bad game design."

So, youa dmit to paying to pay QA Tester. Then, you better not whine about games like Oblivion selling millions then.

 

[suibhne]

Suibhine, whats wrong with Irenicus' dungeon? It isnt the tutorial. Me and I believe many others actually like it because of all the whacky and fascinating things you can find there. Its *dark*.

It's the only thing passing for a tutorial in BG2; it's clearly an attempt by Bio to combine a "tutorial" (for those who didn't play BG) with something more engaging and plot-advancing. It is a big step up from BG's tutorial, absolutely, but there are probably as many people who don't like it as do (on repeat playthroughs, that is); I've often seen the dungeon-skipping mod recommended on various sites.

EDIT: Volly says BG2 has a separate tutorial. Wow, I guess I missed it entirely. Anyway, Irenicus' dungeon is not "one of the best beginnings to any game EVAR in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD", so Volly fails at gaming and at life. End of story. R00fles!

 

[suibhne]

So, youa dmit to paying to pay QA Tester.

Not at all. The fact that you quoted my statement and then proceeded to mangle it 100%...well, somehow I don't think reason is going to work with you.

JE's dialogue consisted of exactly one fight. Not exactly a big deal. L0LLERZ!

What dialog are you even talking about? Huh?

 

[Volourn]

"Anyway, Irenicus' dungeon is not "one of the best beginnings to any game EVAR in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD", so Volly fails at gaming and at life. End of story. R00fles!"

Yes, it is. This is undisputable. Sure, people get ove rit after their 1 millionth play through... usually, because they are either stupid or because they want to get to the more open part of the game (chapter 2).


The fact you didn't even know that BG2 actually had an actual tutorial just goes to show that you have no idea what you speak off. Youa ren't even worth being called a moron in this situation.... Idiot.

 

[taxacaria]

Suibhine, whats wrong with Irenicus' dungeon? It isnt the tutorial. Me and I believe many others actually like it because of all the whacky and fascinating things you can find there. Its *dark*.

hm - I don't like it, because I'm not a friend of "starting dungeons".
The reason is you have to fight your way out before the game is really beginning.
When doing some experiments with your char or your party you have to play it so many times that it's boring in the end.
But it's much better than the Harbinger in KotoR. I like optional tutorials as the Ebon Hawk in KotoR II.
BG 1 is better here than BG2, the prelude is shorter and gives you the feeling of more freedom - although it's as linear as Irenicus' dungeon.

 

[Volourn]

No.

 

[suibhne]

The fact you didn't even know that BG2 actually had an actual tutorial just goes to show that you have no idea what you speak off. Youa ren't even worth being called a moron in this situation.... Idiot.

Kinda like how you say JE's "dialogue" consisted of exactly one fight? And that game (even the XBox version) is much more recent than BG2, so it really should be more present in your memory. But I don't think you're an idiot - just forgetful and exceedlingly ill-mannered.

(Of course, you're obviously more forgetful than I, because JE's introductory areas were mandatory while BG2's were entirely optional.)

In other news, the two best "tutorials" I can recall off the top of my head were ToEE's and Wiz8's.

 

[Drakron]

BG2 tutorial was accessed by the main menu, just like ToEE.

JE handles the "tutorial" the common way, you are "teached" how to play by a NPC when you start a new game ...

 

[kris]

So is it easy as other Biowhore/Obsidian games?

Only Fable is easier, at least in my experience. The only fights I had problems with was the first against a group (learning the controls) and the first fight against demons. After those two I breezed trough the rest.

 

[Volourn]

http://reviews.gameapex.com/pc_game/nev ... php?page=1


Lets' talk bribery, TWD. It seems BIO has bribed a game reveiwer as he dared to rate a 5 year old that the Codex claims sucks an 85% 5 years after release (3 years or so expansions wise).

HAHAHAHAHA!

 

[doctor_kaz]

Game developers very frequently lie about the lengths of their games. If Ray Muzyka really took 140 hours to finish his own game, then he has brain damage. Since I know that he is a very smart guy that doesn't have brain damage, then I think that it's much more likely that he's simply lying.

Its funny how nobody minds the rediculously short campaigns for these so called next generation games. The expansions are even more amusing. FEAR and HL2 ones were what, a couple of hours only? I wouldnt even bother going to the shop and installing a game which I would finish the very same evening. And this goes for JE. Perhaps when Im exceptionally bored...

HL2: Episode 1 was by far the best FPS released last year, and it makes it into my Top 5 of FPS games I've ever played. I'd rather hit a 6-8-hour game like that than suffer through thoroughly mediocre junk like Prey and Quake 4.

You couldn't have possibly taken 6-8 hours on that game. I'm a complete slowpoke at gaming and it took me 3 and a half hours tops. By comparison, Half-Life 2 took me 15 hours, Fable took me 25 hours, and Kotor took me 55 hours. Episode 1 was outrageously short. It has only a paltry 15 levels in it, the first four or five of which you don't even get a gun.

I'm about an hour into Jade Empire and, so far, it seems thoroughly derivative in the dialog department. The "nice vs mean" dialog dichotomy seems even more everpresent and contrived than in Kotor, not to mention extremely stale by now. Art direction is beautiful, but the outdated engine still looks like shit.

 

[Limorkil]

No, Volourn, its not bullshit.

Gamespot censored, bribed interview:

Playing the single-player game through from start to finish takes about 140 hours or more if you try to do everything (that's how long it took me, in any event).

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwin ... id=2870463

NWN OC took me a while. I think 140 hours is a bit much but if someone said it was 100 I would not argue. It's long, I know that much.

Kotor took me ~75 hours first time through. Second time took me ~60 hours and I felt like I was rushing towards the end because I just wanted to get it over with.

As far as I know, I am not doing anything "wrong". The games are not hard and I have no problem understanding what to do. I do not use walkthroughs or anything. I always find it amazing when people claim to complete a game such as Kotor in 20 hours. There is no way to do that other than by rushing. You have to either skip stuff or know exactly where to go and who to talk to. The whole "Know how to play" argument is just bullshit.

 

[Jasede]

Kotor took me 55 hours.

Kotor took me ~75 hours first time through. Second time took me ~60 hours and I felt like I was rushing towards the end because I just wanted to get it over with.

The fuck? Are you stupid? Are you retarded? Most importantly- do you listen to all the voiceacting over and over again? How in all things that are holy can you need more than 30 hours for either Kotor!? Ok, I needed ~23 each. I've played RPGs since I was six years. But 55-75!? What! Are you visiting the same place over and over again? Are you talking to everyone ten times in a row to see if his dialogue changes?? How did you /manage/ to take this long!?

 

[doctor_kaz]

Kotor took me 55 hours.

Kotor took me ~75 hours first time through. Second time took me ~60 hours and I felt like I was rushing towards the end because I just wanted to get it over with.

The fuck? Are you stupid? Are you retarded? Most importantly- do you listen to all the voiceacting over and over again? How in all things that is holy can you need more than 30 hours for either Kotor!? Ok, I needed ~23 each. I've played RPGs since I was six years. But 55-75!? What! Are you visiting the same place over and over again? Are you talking to everyone ten times in a row to see if his dialogue changes?? How did you /manage/ to take this long!?

I can only answer for me -- yes I listen to all the voice acting. I also do shitloads of backtracking to see if there's any side quest or dialog that I missed. Like revisiting an area with NPC's #2 and #3, and then coming back five hours later with NPC's #4 and #5 just to see if they have anything different to say. Sometimes they do.

 

[Jasede]

I freely admit skipping ALL voice-acting [saving me at LEAST 10 hours] as well as NOT visiting everything with every NPC.

 

[Volourn]

Some people rush through. Let's face it. If you beat KOTOR in 23 hours, you were rushing through. Period. To me, you likely weren't enjoying the game and made the braind ead decision to rush through it just to say you finished it instea dof doing the actual smart thing, and stop playing.

I play games to enjoy them. I dont' rush. I talk, I enjoy the surroundings, I read my journal, I revisit places, I play inventory matrix to organize.

I don't play games just to say I beat them. i play them to enjoy them.

 

[suibhne]

You couldn't have possibly taken 6-8 hours on that game. I'm a complete slowpoke at gaming and it took me 3 and a half hours tops. By comparison, Half-Life 2 took me 15 hours, Fable took me 25 hours, and Kotor took me 55 hours. Episode 1 was outrageously short. It has only a paltry 15 levels in it, the first four or five of which you don't even get a gun.

Could've had something to do with me playing HL2: Ep. 1 on Hard, but still, I got about 6 hours out of it. Since I'm a competitive FPS player with pretty solid hitscan aim, I assume most people would take longer.

I have no idea where you get the idea that Ep. 1's first levels leave you without a gun. You have the Blue Gravity Gun, and you use it constantly.

Anyway, KotOR took me about half as long as it took you, which is a pretty big difference. We obviously have different play styles.

 

[RK47]

It's a shallow game...with not enough 'amusement' factor to pull me to play. Pity that, I was expecting some pow-wow kungfu knock back effect from some attacks, but it just wont' come.. I wanted some sort of 'impact-like' feel of knocking the enemy to a wall or stone smashing moves but didn't see the difference, it all boils down to poke attacks to drop the green hp bar to zero, fireballing when appropriate, roll around like a monkey. Over n over.

 

[RK47]

In fact, I played Max Payne Kung Fu mod and was more entertained than playing Jade Empire. It's just that bad

 

[Elwro]

If I paid for a game, I paid for voiceovers too. So I never skip any spoken line because I hate wasting money.

Nah, kidding.

 

[suibhne]

If I paid for a game, I paid for voiceovers too. So I never skip any spoken line because I hate wasting money.

Nah, kidding.

 

[Volourn]

Back to bribery talk: Jade Empire is now rated around 83% at GR only about about 5% lowet han the consoel version that was released 2 years earlier. Not exactly a huge drop. R00fles!

 

[made]

Meh. I've just put the game to rest after a few hours. The horribly out of place arcade sequence (a vertical scrolling shoot 'em up - WTF?) was just laughable and the dialogues and side quests are plain boring and contrived. It all boils down to choosing the obvious "good" or "evil" answers, where good is helpful and evil is greedy and/or aggressive. I expected the Closed Fist to be a creative way of helping people; instead of solving their problems for them you'd show them ways how they can help themselves - there are slight notions of that in the dialogues, but usually if I don't want to pick the Paladin path I end up as the dumb and greedy thug. And then there are the superficial attempts at comedy, like the quest with the kidnapped wife and the ox, that just make me cringe.

I guess I'll force myself to finish it at some point to see if at least the plot gets better, although that is probably still the strongest point of the game so far - that and the art design, which undeniably is beautiful.