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Editorial Bloodlines - a great game you've never played

EEVIAC

Erudite
Joined
Mar 30, 2003
Messages
1,186
Location
Bumfuck, Nowhere
Admiral jimbob said:
I don't see how it tied in, really; the only Gehennaness of Bloodlines was the vaguely unsettling feeling coming over the vampire population and the wild rumours about the sarcophaggggus.

It does touch briefly on some of the signs of Gehenna, the thin bloods, the return of Caine (which was completely spastic), Hunters, the rise of the Black Hand. Not that it does any of those things particularly well, but they were there to get you hot and sweaty for the Gehenna book (which was a bit of a dud itself.)
 

Binary

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
901
Location
Trinsic
suibhne said:
Perhaps they pulled it for accuracy?

As if gaming "magazines" these days are worried about the accuracy of their articles. Yeah right! ;)
 

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
Bradylama said:
Sylvanus said:
All I know is that my computer could run HL2 without a hitch while Bloodlines turned into a slideshow at quite a few points.

That's because Troika was given a mid-production build of HL2 to work with.

As Leonard Boyarsky pointed out in interviews, one of the big reasons for lower performance is that Bloodlines has to handle far more AI than HL2, which is linear and highly scripted (but still awesome :D).
 

Jim Kata

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
2,602
Location
Nonsexual dungeon
Once you had 1gb plus it was fine. I honestly never noticed a single bug but then when I got to the sewers I said fuck this garbage and stopped playing, though it was greatish til then.
 

filogreek

Scholar
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Messages
114
Yeah when Bloodlines was released, my computer was running with 512mb ram, and there where many issues with sound skipping/distortion and generally the game played like absolute crap. After I upgraded to 1gig the game plays ALOT smoother. It seems weird that the game was delayed because of Half Life 2's release, but they didn't seem to use that time to fix all those bugs in the final release. Were they stopped by Activision or something, maybe not allowed to tinker with the game after it had gone gold?
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Questions:
Is this game worth shelling out 20 dollars for? Has it got those fabled choices and consequences? I always meant to check it out but the FPS aspect bothered me quite a bit so I didn't even try. Also, is it halfway playable with all those fan-made patches? Oh, and, what is "jiggle-tech"?
 

Gambler

Augur
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
767
Is this game worth shelling out 20 dollars for?
Yes.

Has it got those fabled choices and consequences?
Kind of. More than in the most RPGs.

BTW, this "choices and consequences" phrase is becoming a cliche here.
 

Hory

Erudite
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
3,002
Yeah, who invented that phrase? It wasn't used a few months ago...
 

Amasius

Augur
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
959
Location
Thanatos
Jasede said:
Questions:
Is this game worth shelling out 20 dollars for? Has it got those fabled choices and consequences? I always meant to check it out but the FPS aspect bothered me quite a bit so I didn't even try. Also, is it halfway playable with all those fan-made patches? Oh, and, what is "jiggle-tech"?

I'm replaying Bloodlines ATM and can only recommend it. You can get it in germany for 10 € now in the bargain bin. (Got mine at Media Markt)

c&c - sometimes and that is more than most RPGs.

The fights are probably the worst part, but thats Troika - either the fighting system of an otherwise great game sucks (Bloodlines & Arcanum) or its brilliant but the rest isn't worth mentioning (ToEE). With the latest fan-patch it is nearly bugfree but yes, you should have at last 1 GB Ram.


Hory said:
Yeah, who invented that phrase? It wasn't used a few months ago...
Don't question the infallible Codex-Dogma! :twisted:
 

John Yossarian

Magister
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,000
Location
Pianosa
Gambler said:
BTW, this "choices and consequences" phrase is becoming a cliche here.
I blame Oblivion. If only beth looked at the real life consequences their game had and take notes for their next one.
 

Voss

Erudite
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
1,770
Jasede said:
Questions:
Is this game worth shelling out 20 dollars for? Has it got those fabled choices and consequences? I always meant to check it out but the FPS aspect bothered me quite a bit so I didn't even try. Also, is it halfway playable with all those fan-made patches? Oh, and, what is "jiggle-tech"?

Not really.

No. Theres a bit in the very beginning, but you get rail-roaded into what passes for the plot fairly quickly, and which point, you either don't have choices, or they're completely meaningless beyond a token xp/cash award.'

It added to the suck factor

It was halfway playable without fan patches.

About what you'd expect. The half-clad, pseudo goth-girl characters (with strangely huge tits, which, unless they're the fat ones, usually doesn't happen) jiggle. A lot. To the point that you'd expect their spines to snap.

And, of course, if you're actually fond on the PnP game, this will actively hurt your soul, what with the hordes and hordes of mindless enemy vamps that you'll have to wade through. And the werewolf bit was handled as badly as a Congressional page.
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,683
Location
The Heart of It All
Hory said:
Yeah, who invented that phrase? It wasn't used a few months ago...

I remember seeing Fable adds claiming, "for every choice, a consequence". That was back in 2004, or even as far back as 2003, who knows. Hmmm... Time to do a Codex Search.

Back, apparently it was first used in the Febuary, 2006 thread: Questions for MSFD.

Link to specific post where both Choice and Consequence were used: http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... nce#200668 .

Not exactly scientific, but you are right that it is a more recent development, or are search engine doesn't do archive queries.

Edit: Opps, the thread was Febuary, not March.
 

Mefi

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
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waiting for a train at Perdido Street Station
Admiral jimbob said:
The second half was still worth £5, though the last few hours did get a bit tedious. :)

Aye. We all know the reasons why it ended up like that but it was very disappointing to see the promise of the first half withering away.

But you can't go wrong for a fiver and if you have the 1gig+ RAM you need to get anything like an acceptable performance from the game.
 

Nael

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
11,384
Location
Indy
Jim Kata said:
Once you had 1gb plus it was fine. I honestly never noticed a single bug but then when I got to the sewers I said fuck this garbage and stopped playing, though it was greatish til then.

Unless you're a Nosferatu or just have really really low Humanity, you don't spend much time in the sewers. THe only time you're forced into them is when you go to meet up with the leader of the Nosferatu (which is worth the sewer romp) or the 10 second jaunt through the sewers towards the beginning to get to the haunted mansion.

If you can be a trooper and make it through those minor parts, the endgame is entirely worth it. I had some guesses as to what was in the "box" the first time I played it, but the truth of what was behind door #3 completely surprised me. I never saw it comin. Best ending to a game I've ever played period.

And I've said it once, but I'll say it again... Play as a female Malkavian if you like entertaining dialogue. The best is if you talk to that weird guy in Chinatown with the bloodshot eyes. Four rounds of "Hehehe, hahahaha, hohohoho!"ing at each other. One of the funnier moments playing as a Malkavian :)
 

Shoelip

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
1,814
I hated most of the endings, hack, slash, slash, hackity hack. Then you get to watch a ten second cutscene.
 

Maia

Novice
Joined
Dec 16, 2005
Messages
64
I am playing Bloodlines now (for the first time) and loving it. If you have a decent computer with 1+ GB RAM and a medium-level graphic card, it is very worth it. With just the last official patch I haven't seen any bugs apart from very occasional clipping errors and once when a section of a dialogue wasn't voiced.

Of course, this is with the caveats that I :

1. Like 1st/3rd person 3D CRPGs with action/adventure element (my entry into CRPGs was Ultima Underworld). Adventure element in Bloodlines is ubiquitious but very, very light though - it will never slow you down, but it does offer a nice change of pace and contributes to the atmosphere. Oh, and no jumping puzzles! Whenever jumping could be beneficial, even a klutz like me can do it at the first attempt.

2. Never have played any survival/horror games, so certain conventions of the genre may have found a completely fresh audience in me, strengthening my enjoyment.

3. Generally suck at action combat (though like to play action games like Half-Life 1 and JKs from time to time), yet I have no problems with melee combat in BL. In fact, I kind of like this much maligned feature. It looks cool, is easy to use, is quite stat-dependant, and the game forces you to alternate various attacks (if you use the same one repeatedly, enemies just start blocking it completely) - which is a very nice feature, IMHO. I liked the combat implementation much more than in MW or Gothics 1+2.

Now, as to consequences in quests, they seem mostly along the lines of be nice/suck up to people and reap the boni ;). But there are a few instances where you can make some quite evil choices for benefits and sometimes how you say things in dialogue can make a difference, too - there is less looping than usual. Dialogue itself is stellar, BTW. Losing humanity/maskerade also has obvious consequences. Every few points you add to stats/abilities change your character noticeably and the Disciplines set various clans apart and perceptibly affect the gameplay. Beyond that, I have heard that Malkavian maddness is very well implemented (both dialogue-wise and " hearing voices") and Tremere and Nosferatu get different appartments than the rest. Whether it is enough for good replay value is difficult for me to say, as I seldom replay games and never fully replayed one more than once. I will try again with a male Malkavian at some point in the future, though.

Now to enjoy Bloodlines fully from the start one needs to know a couple of things:

1. Increase attributes before you increase skills. Yes, it may look more expensive at first, but there is a lot of skill-increasing manuals to be bought/found and skill-boni as quest rewards as well. Until you start needing more than 6 or so Research to read the manuals you'd be saving a decent amount of Exp.

2. A decent social feat is essential for enjoyment. Of those, Persuade rules and Seduction is worthless, but Initmidate combined with Malkavian's Dementation or Ventrue's Domination may be an equal and more amusing alternative to Persuade.

3. You need a good combat skill. I don't know if it is possible to make through with just unarmed, because supernatural foes seem to shake off a lot of blunt damage. I'd say that you need to decide between melee and firearms. Speaking of which - a 38-er is completely useless, even against humans, but the shotgun, which you find quite early in the MQ is another matter. Even with my chars non-existent firearms skill it seemed to work well against humans. Supposedly, firearms become quite powerful once you put enough points into them and superior to everything else towards the end of the game, once you get the really good pieces. OTOH, in the beginning a firearms character would have to rely on BloodBuffed brawling and keep away from those sidequests that are combat-heavy. In case of MQ, it is possible to sneak through all/most of early quests.

4. Hacking rules, Haggle is worthless and Sneak is bugged. It is possible to sneak through a lot with just the starting 1 point in Dex and 1 skill point in Stealth. Not everything - if you want a really stealthy character it makes sense to invest more, but it is ridiculously effective at such a low level. Also, I have heard that it is impossible to sneak through the last combat-heavy areas of the game without getting into toe-to-toe fights with the bosses, although stealth killing the fodder enemies does make the things easier.

The one thing that really hurts this otherwise very enjoyable (so far) game for me is the relative absence of useful items. There is very little to be found of bought, equipping a character is a no-brainer because there is always one superior weapon, one superior outfit, etc. For some it may be liberating, but IMHO it really hurts the CRPG feel of Bloodlines.
 

mr nobuddy

Educated
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
44
Location
Never-Neverland
Maia said:
Now to enjoy Bloodlines fully from the start one needs to know a couple of things:

1. Increase attributes before you increase skills. Yes, it may look more expensive at first, but there is a lot of skill-increasing manuals to be bought/found and skill-boni as quest rewards as well. Until you start needing more than 6 or so Research to read the manuals you'd be saving a decent amount of Exp.
Yet for most tomes to be useful you need to have a certain amount of Research, and the skill you want to upgrade with a tome needs to be at a required level...

2. A decent social feat is essential for enjoyment. Of those, Persuade rules and Seduction is worthless, but Initmidate combined with Malkavian's Dementation or Ventrue's Domination may be an equal and more amusing alternative to Persuade.
Exept as a female. Female + sedution== $$$$$

By the way, GET THE UNOFFICIAL PATCH!!!


*returns to lurk*
 

Maia

Novice
Joined
Dec 16, 2005
Messages
64
mr nobuddy said:
Yet for most tomes to be useful you need to have a certain amount of Research, and the skill you want to upgrade with a tome needs to be at a required level...

Yes, but up to Research 6 you are still coming up ahead, rather significantly. I wouldn't go higher than that. In any case, at the very least I can only advise everybody not to invest into skill spoints until after thoroughly exploring Santa Monica ;).


Exept as a female. Female + sedution== $$$$$*

But what would I need $ for? There is nothing to buy. I never yet needed bloodpacks and have hoarded those I found . For everything else, money I find and get from quests is more than enough. It may be different for a firearms expert in need of ammunition or a Ventrue who can't snack on rats and bums, I wouldn't know.

I understand that there are very few Seduction options in a dialogue, even for a female, so... I am playing a female Toreador and really wanted to try out Seduction, but XP-wise it isn't going to happen if I want to be able to solve all sidequests as I find them. Quite a few of those are combat-heavy and I have bad reflexes, so I need stats.

Re: unnoficial patch, I have heard good things about it, but I want to play the first time through "as is". If I replay I will grab it for sure.
 

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