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Eternity Did the PoE series fail commercially because it didn't use the D&D ruleset or was it something else?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Harry Easter, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Maybe it's because Witcher 3 isn't an RPG? When you have such a huge discrepancy, maybe it's time to take a step back and examine the big picture, it seems like very few people learned anything from those "pick the odd one out" exercises we had as children.
     
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  2. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yes and no. If we're talking isometric RPGs, I think people are actually discounting the advantage that Pathfinder: Kingmaker had simply by being the world's first proper Pathfinder CRPG. Tabletop fans are hardcore about their hobby (look how much money they splurge on Kickstarter) and that could easily account for a hundred thousand or so day one sales.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 11:41 PM
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  3. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    I made an example at how a game that is half a decade old and only on one platform is bringing is as much money as the entire pnp RPG market. Are you stupid?
     
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  4. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Why are you comparing two entirely different categories of games? Oh, hey, Witcher 3 outsells the entire point-and-click adventure game industry! What a revelation and it definitely says something! It even outsells CYOA books! WOW!
     
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  5. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    It would be relevant if someone was making a video game that targeted CYOA book readers and I was pointing out that there isn't a large market to draw from you retard.
     
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  6. Lacrymas Arcane

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    Except they aren't targeting the pnp crowd, which is painfully obvious for everyone with a modicum of self-awareness and living in the present.
     
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  7. LJ40 Savant

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    While not the whole issue at all, this fucking faggotry is definitely part of the problem.
     
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  8. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Ahhh,it sold significant more than poe2,because most of their copies were a backer ones,thus not sold.
     
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  9. S0rcererV1ct0r Novice

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Seriously? On last sale, PfK was on top sold on steam and on gog. PoE 2 was far below PfK.
     
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  10. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    No, what he's saying is that PoE2 has sold much fewer copies than Pathfinder: Kingmaker on Steam - because "most" of the copies it appears to have sold were actually free keys given to crowdfunding backers, therefore the numbers are misleading.

    But of course that's not true - the number of backers is nowhere near that large, plus he's forgetting that Pathfinder: Kingmaker was also a crowdfunded game.
     
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  11. holla_cabezas_de_mierda Arcane

    holla_cabezas_de_mierda
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    I would have greatly preferred PoE art style to that of pathfinder too. PoE looks great. I love the way the games looks.
     
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  12. holla_cabezas_de_mierda Arcane

    holla_cabezas_de_mierda
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    the combat is what makes the game so god fucking awful
     
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  13. holla_cabezas_de_mierda Arcane

    holla_cabezas_de_mierda
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    this would be a great point if I gave a shit about how much a game sold as a criteria for me enjoying the game myself. This is like deciding where I am going to eat by looking at how many burgers McDonalds has sold on the bottom of their sign....

    '88 trillion sold!!! Duh!!! whats all this about "muh fecal matterless food!?"'
     
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  14. S0rcererV1ct0r Novice

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Wrong. Rule alterations generally make the game worse. I can name a lot of examples, pale maters giving no caster level on NWN1 ruined the class. And limited to one summon double ruined the class.

    Arcane Archers unable to imbue other elements than fire, the most resisted element ruined the class too.

    Using your logic, SCL should be the most successful RPG of all time.
     
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  15. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Why?



    Pale Masters are NOT arcane casters in NWN due to the rule alterations necessitated by the engine, they couldn't figure out how to give caster levels to the other classes you have. Pale Master is not ruined however, it's a great supporting PRC for builds heavy in Cleric, Bard, Red Dragon Disciple, etc. Most melee builds actually.

    It just goes to show how people can't see the potential in things.
     
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  16. holla_cabezas_de_mierda Arcane

    holla_cabezas_de_mierda
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    its boring, has terrible itemization, the spells are ridiculous are convoluted and feel weak and dry. The per encounter skills don't help... and the class system makes all of it feel pointless anyway. The game has good art. Is it your opinion the game has good art and great combat but is just not that well received for some reason? If the game had enjoyable combat and art more people on codex would enjoy the game. I would. People don't dislike PoE because the story or something. Its the combat and the game system. What else is there? That is what an RPG is for the most part.
     
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  17. S0rcererV1ct0r Novice

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    They could't figure how to give +caster level but the modders that made PRC modders figured out an way? And an Pale master being only useful for melee is not broken? If Barbarians become amazing at spellcasting, everyone will realize that they are broken. Why not add the death knight prestige class and make then one of best casters?

    This is what i can do With PRC(of course, i cheated to reach lv cap quickly), but as you can see, i can have 360 HD worth of undead as a Dread necro/Lich. No "one summon BS",

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Lacrymas Arcane

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    This is all really vague and not helpful. PoE doesn't have terrible itemization, the general consensus is that PoE after WM has one of the best itemizations in an RPG ever. The only criticism I can throw at it is that soulbound weapons have MMOish upgrade requirements which don't work well. In what way are the spells convoluted? I'd argue some of them are too powerful and make the combat boring by their sheer OPness by level 9ish or so. The per encounter skills contribute to the heavy micromanagement required, but that's a quality of life thing more than a negative in the combat system. Why does the class system make it feel pointless?

    People do dislike PoE because of the blandness of the setting, the overlong pointless conversations, the convoluted story that doesn't go anywhere, the dry and limp dick companions, the wasted potential, the small, samey and featureless maps, the amount of trash combat, the thoroughly uninteresting quests and so on. People who *like* PoE cite the combat system, itemization and the build variety as the reason. I don't agree with the build variety thing. I wouldn't say I like it, but I can tolerate it to play it for White March. Well, I won't be replaying it any time soon because I want to puke every time I think about base game.


    No, PM being only useful for melee is not broken, it's simply how you use this PrC in this game. Do PrCs give you the spells you would have gotten had you continued with the base class in those mods? I'm pretty sure they can't do that in this engine, but I might be wrong. They could make it so the PrC gives you more spells using the caster level of the PrC itself, but that's not the same thing. The reason given by Bioware for the inability of the PM to continue your spell progression is that they couldn't figure out how to do it, that's why PM is used exclusively for melee builds.

    Yes, I am salty you can't have a bunch of undead minions too, but I see why that was needed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019 at 1:49 PM
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  19. PsychoFox Educated

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    The first game falters imo because of it's poor story and poor story delivery. The actual lore and characters of the game as well as the RP mechanics are fairly decent, but the main plot is boring and the buried behind paragraph after paragraph of autistic drivel. PoE II on the other hand is a pretty great game imo, at least so far after 10 hours.

    As for the ruleset, it works pretty well and gets the job done. It's by no means revolutionary and some of the design choices are bewildering (eg. unintuitive attribute-skill relations, the way loot is handled etc.), but it's functional and not deserving of some the extreme criticisms seen here.

    The best thing about PoE is the world itself. They made a real poor choice by choosing Dyrwood for the first game because it's a totally uninspiring landscape, but the the world of PoE is rich with a lot of very well written, interesting lore.

    IMO Obsidian will suffer in the long run due to losing Avellon. If more people (Fenste..wtv and JESawyer, etc) leave, they'll end up like BioWare. I do hope it won't come to that, but you'll never know. I'd love to see Feargus Urqhart be booted though, i think Obsidian would do so much better under better management.

    I do love PoE for one thing though, imo it pretty much reignited a sort of CRPG Renaissance. Just look at all the awesome CRPGs that have been coming out and ARE coming out (PFKM, D:OS, ATOM RPG, UnderRail, etc.).

    I don't think we would see many of these games had it not been for PoE.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019 at 3:09 PM
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  20. Sergiu64 Arcane

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    Doesn't sound like we have any sort of agreement as to why PoE was good or bad, same with PoE2.

    One thing I found to be different between PoE's and Baldur's Gates is that I replayed bg2 like 10 times and bg like 4 times. But I can't grind through either PoE the second time around... Not sure what it is... Maybe the effort/reward timing is off or something...
     
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  21. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    Good luck finding a single-player module balanced for PRC. That screencap is from HotU, which is already a faceroll. Go and play non-PRC Swordflight, you summon-scrub.
     
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  22. Akratus Self-loathing fascist drunken misogynist asshole Patron

    Akratus
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I can't speak that much to why it failed overal, but it did have inefficient writing, lots of walls of text with little to say. But to me the number one cause the expansion and especially the sequel failed were because most players will want to finish the base game first before doing those. Making PoE2 a direct sequel with the same character was their major failing in my opinion. It might sell well, eventually, over time, as more and more players finish the first game. But they lose a ton of them because first of all the game needed so many patches to finally get to where it is now and most players will have it in the back of their mind to finish it some day but will just forget about it after a while.

    I can tell you that the main reason I never finished the game, and the first part of the expansion especially is because it doesn't hold my interest. There was none of that world building and faction design that made New Vegas so compelling and replayable. The factions in defiance bay were so cookie cutter, there was lots of flair in the writing and presentation of the world but the content was linear and samey and it all blends together into one big bland soup as you play it. I can't even remember a single quest. Also RtWP is just a straight up bad idea and has been since it's invention. Maybe it can be done right but it's always been a compromise, a re-working of turn based to try to make it less "slow, boring, etc." and more appealing to the twitchy casuals. I mean, that's my personal opinion and preference but it's the correct one so. .
     
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  23. PsychoFox Educated

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    You know, there actually is quite a bit of worldbuilding, and the characters and factions are actually very unique and interesting, but all the good stuff is buried under so much text, that even if you wade through the crap and get to them, you won't recognize them due to fatigue. Also, it doesn't help how little color this game's presentation has. It really does look like it wants to drive you insane at some points.
     
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  24. Kit Walker Totally Not Captain Shrek

    Kit Walker
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    PoE failed because its setting and writing are terrible at capturing the imagination. The experience is made worse due to a terribly boring hit till die and hit a lot combat mechanics.
     
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  25. Sergiu64 Arcane

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    Opinions are all over the place. Someone make a poll!
     
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