Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Do RPGs have value outside of fun?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by howlingFantods, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    16,439
    Disneyland?
    :happytrollboy:
     
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Messages:
    4,759
    It's the mindkiller
     
    ^ Top  
  3. Darth Canoli Cipher

    Darth Canoli
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Messages:
    2,465
    Location:
    Perched on a tree
    I guess you're talking about soccer (because of foreign team, american football is an inbred thing), while i agree, soccer is for the retarded masses, there's plenty of fun games to play and watch from Rugby to Ultimate Frisbee.
     
    • cool story bro cool story bro x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. Kev Inkline Arcane Patron

    Kev Inkline
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,033
    A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    RPGs gave us RPGCodex.
     
    • Friendly x 4
    • Funny x 2
    • incline x 2
    • decline x 2
    • Agree x 1
    • Despair x 1
    • Useful x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. TrueNeutralPaladin Educated

    TrueNeutralPaladin
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2019
    Messages:
    63
    Do not die.
     
    ^ Top  
  6. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    25,072
    Location:
    Secret Lab of the Warrior-Magus of Esoteric RPGism
    RPGs are art and all art is inherently valuable.
     
    • Brofist x 4
    • Agree x 3
    • Fabulously Optimistic x 2
    • rolleyes x 1
    • Creative x 1
    • it is a mystery x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Magnat Arcane Vatnik

    Magnat
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    5,000
    Location:
    Medrengard
    I wouldn't go that far, but I tend to agree.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

    AwesomeButton
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    8,910
    Location:
    At large
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Bullshit. Watch me when I hit pension age and go on to write the best fantasy ficton novels since Tolkien.
     
    • Cheers!! Cheers!! x 1
    • Equip the Ring Equip the Ring x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. Catacombs Liturgist Patron

    Catacombs
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    2,171
    Location:
    The Crypt
    Make the Codex Great Again!
    We've been training for this our whole lives. I pity the normies getting cabin fever.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. Jesus The King of Poland Patron

    Jesus
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2017
    Messages:
    6,194
    Location:
    Your Heart
    Most books have no value at all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    • When words are not enough When words are not enough x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    8,599
    Location:
    Flowery Land
    The codex in Expeditions: Conquistador and Kingdom Come are gateways to actual history.
     
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. NJClaw Ontopolover Patron

    NJClaw
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,393
    Location:
    Bologna, Italy
    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    You can learn something about history even through Assassin's Creed, which apparently is an rpg now :smug:
     
    • decline decline x 1
    • FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS x 1
    • [citation needed] [citation needed] x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Butter Magister

    Butter
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,718
    You can at least burn books for heat. What am I supposed to do with my copy of Numenera?
     
    • Funny Funny x 6
    • Makes you think... Makes you think... x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Jedi Master Radek Arcane

    Jedi Master Radek
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,008
    I fundamentally disagree with an idea that art should have value other than itself.

    There is nothing more selfdestructive than a neoliberal obsession with productiveness. Work, work, work to make your millionaire of choice richer and then die. By seeking benefits to gaming you are falling into the trap made by people for whom you are nothing more than a resource. Play a game, read a book, watch a movie and forget about that nagging feeling in your head that you are wasting time because this feeling was put into your head by people who want to control your life.
     
    • incline incline x 2
    • "It was Aliens" "It was Aliens" x 1
    • cuck cuck x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Darkzone Arcane

    Darkzone
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,058
    Yes but half of the time the value is in the negative numbers and the Zero has also a value. Art is derived from the latin word artem which means skill, craft or power. Artem is accusative singular of ars which means Skill or Sciences or something that is skillfull made. Exercitatio artem parat. ( Practice makes the Art (master).) Therefore the word art should be only used in connection to something that requires quite the skill to make. Everything that is made in our world is made by a human (i exclude here Animals and AI), but the degree of skills is quite variable.
    Then we can apply numeric values to the required skill to accomplish a task, where Zero would be the average, while any skillful execution or more than average kognitive kapacities is in the positiv numbers, the work of the left hand or stupidity would have then negative values.
    Therefore one can state that modern art is a decrement to the world and mankind.

    Radek like JarlFrank you have potential, but you need more information. 20-80 formula is a thing. In case of the productivity, it is that 20% of humans make 80% of worlds production. Now think what does that mean and also it is the true reason why communism does not work.
    Also learn Aristotle's view on storytelling and heroes, because it will enrich you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • (autism) (autism) x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. Darth Canoli Cipher

    Darth Canoli
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Messages:
    2,465
    Location:
    Perched on a tree
    I'm not a communist and i live in a country which was never communist.
    Communism never worked, doesn't mean it'll never work, it was only applied by dictators, capitalist dictatorship doesn't work either.

    Capitalism, even mildly "democratic", doesn't work either because we're using natural resources faster than it can regenerate while polluting as well in so many ways it'd take me days to list it all.
    But it's not the only reason capitalism doesn't work, in a capitalism economy, the only way to get rich is to cheat, find a loophole and to benefit from other peoples work.
    If it wasn't enough, the ones benefiting from the system (see previous sentence) never have enough and have to squeeze their employees as much as they can, competing with each other wanting to accumulate more useless numbers on their accounts than the next guy.
    The results are numerous but maintly strikes, riots and revolutions.

    There are many solutions but none applicable as long as we're linked and directed by the market.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Jedi Master Radek Arcane

    Jedi Master Radek
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,008
    This is a nice example of a brain rot the aforementioned obsession with productivity creates. (with all your respect). If you were correct then good artist would always create good art. Proofing one skill by creating a good art once would mean that person should be able to always create art with the same quality or better in the future. This is self evidently absurd. Furthermore they are also many things that require skills like sports or doing surgery which aren't art. Another unfortunate implication of your assumptions is that more skilled artist would always create a better art than less skilled one, which is also wrong, there is a lot of amateur artist who pours heart in their art and manage to create something better than artist which are more skilled.

    The only way you can defend your nonsense is by using a mix of circular logic and non sequitur: a person created better art, so they have more skills, therefore art is all about skills.

    You created this incoherent mess only to rationalize your disdain for the modern art. I don't need this construction to just say that modern art isn't to my taste. The same way I don't need to find some hidden productivity value of RPG to say that I love them and that's enough for me.


    That's why richest dozen or so people own as much as half of the word population? Truly they have to move faster than light to archive such level of productivity, they need to consult NASA RIGHT NOW!

    As we all know, there could only be Somalia or USRR. No other country have ever existed, they are all lies made by much evil intellectuals. Don't believe your own eyes.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. Funposter Savant

    Funposter
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    809
    Location:
    Australia
    this is why they used to come with instruction manuals

    "all art is valuable" is postmodern peepee poopoo bullshit. most "art" is total crap and completely devoid of merit.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    25,072
    Location:
    Secret Lab of the Warrior-Magus of Esoteric RPGism
    I do not consider modern "art" art. :M
     
    • Brofist x 3
    • /facepalm/ x 2
    • Participation Award x 1
    • not sure if serious x 1
    • Edgy x 1
    • retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. Magnat Arcane Vatnik

    Magnat
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    5,000
    Location:
    Medrengard
    You should've clarified that from the beginning, since what you are doing is taking a descriptive term and turning it into a prescriptive one.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Squadcar Learned

    Squadcar
    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    481
    Yeah, RPGs are only for fun. Stories and themes mean NOTHING. Who cares?!!?! Every game ought to be the most absolute slaughter-fest ever~!!!!~!~!@@!1!!! YEAH!!!!! WOOOOO OH MY GOD DIALOGUE THAT ISN't EDGY!?! NO THANKS~!!!!!! IF YOU CAN'T BE AN EDGELORD FOR THE LULZ AND GO BOOM BOOM POW ON EVERYONE WHAT'S THE POINT MAN!?!
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  22. Magnat Arcane Vatnik

    Magnat
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    5,000
    Location:
    Medrengard
    Based Disco comrade. :salute:
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • honk honk! honk honk! x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. Mr. Magniloquent Savant

    Mr. Magniloquent
    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    604
    Location:
    The Present
    Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. My assertion remains true.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  24. Darkzone Arcane

    Darkzone
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,058
    Yeah and therefore Louvre is filled with "art"pieces made by dumb and dumber and the sistine chapel was painted by 6 year olds. While the Veit-Stoss-altar was made by Baca, who came down from his mountain and took the time off from his watching the cows and chewing on grass.
    Also you commit the mistake here by assuming that an ability can be only risen and not have day-to-day oscillating quality or be even lost. Abilities are dependent on different factors but the trained skill is a necessity and someone who is not capable and skilled will never be capable and skilled, unless he trains his art. Therefore someone who has not the skill, simply told does not have the skill to play with the big boys and this is applies to every higher department of human endeavour. Because nothing comes from nothing and nothing disappears without a trace.
    (A sentence that you can tattoo on your arm or forehead and alone the knowledge of this sentence will make you smarter.)
    The definition of artem is skill if you would have learned latin, then you would understand this. But i speak guilt the polish commie education system for your blunder.
    If someone never has trained martial arts, then he will never win in UFC. If someone never has trained his muscles then he will never win in the strongman competition. If someone has never played soccer, then he will never win a FIFA WC. If someone has never played a piano, then he will never play Chopin. If you want to be a good physicist then you have to study physics for at least 5 years. If you want to be a good programmer then you have to write programs for at least 10k hours. If you want to be a good fighter then you have to train true martial arts for years.
    Now think this carefully over.
    Every good book is written by someone who has read good books and understands what makes them good (implies analysis of the works) and has trained his writing style. Every musical masterpiece was written by someone who knew good music and understood what made them good and played himself an instrument.
    Now to your nonsense circular and none sequitor logic example: a person created better art, so they have more skills, therefore art is all about skills.
    Art derives from Skill ( (see latin and examples above ) as the Premiss for A). A person is more skilled (in execution (manual dexterity) and cognitive capabilities) in the art, therefore the person has created better Art.
    With Modus ponendo ponens:
    A (Person is more skilled.), B (Person has created better Art.): (A And (A->B))->B (A is valid and A implicates B therefore follows B)
    Art is not an act of accident, but a summeration of previous acquired skills and experience.

    I do not hate modern art and therefore try to justify my hate towards it. I love skills, science, rationality and knowledge, therefore i hate the modern art, postmodernism, communism (marxism in any form), national socialism and islam. (Because this idiotologies are the enemies of my beloved things.) If you are not in awe, when you witness the beauty of true art and creativity and if you cannot comprehend the way that has lead to its creation, then you will not understand my position.

    They understand how markets work, which implies they are more skilled and capable than others in the finance and/or innovation sector. They have also spend half of the lives working towards this position while other were not as capable and did invest their time as smart.
    Bezos as an example has studied computer science and after his B.Sc. has worked in FITEL (mobile communication), Bankers Trust and D.E. Shaw & Co and there he has developed the idea fo Online Booktrading. In 1994 he founded Amazon.com.
    Look at worlds richest people and see how they have arrived at their position in life, before you make such comments. And yes Bezos is making his own NASA, while you sound just jealous and this is a sin according to a religious book. And this sin is also the basis of communism, that wants to take away from the capable people and give it to the idiots. So instead of being jealous praise their skills and capabilities, while you are honing yours.

    I'm not talking here about true Communisc and Real Socialism Countries. I'm talking here about the principle of productivity and the reward system as in ressource distribution. If you are not rewarded for your endeavours, then you will not try and this will result in even further decline of the overall productivity. (A good horse jumps only as high as it has to.) A fucking "Workman's Hero" medal and a sweaty handshake is not a reward, but an insult.
    An unproductive system cannot compete with an productive one. In the end a unproductive system will become even more unproductive, then it will run out of the ressources and this will lead to cannibalization of the base of the system. The 20/80 principle is why communism does not work.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Cheers!! Cheers!! x 1
    • I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. DeepOcean Arcane

    DeepOcean
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    5,845
    If you dont play videogames, you will spend more time with your wife and that means wasting more time hearing how such a horrible human being you are, if you play video games, people will annoy you saying how such a horrible human being you are for wasting time with them. If it is to be a horrible humam being anyway, it is better to waste time playing videogames, at least they are fun.
     
    • incline incline x 1
    • Makes you think... Makes you think... x 1
    ^ Top