Fallout and what makes it enjoyable

[Wyrmlord]

In my current session of Fallout, I was wondering about what I enjoyed doing most in the game.

I think my greatest pleasure came from clearing out large camps of Deathclaws, Khans, Mutants, and other wasteland threats. And what I enjoyed nearly as much was all the exploration, purchases, hints, and interactions that led me to doing a better job of wiping those encounters out.

Is it selling Fallout short to focus so much on the combat aspect of it? The answer is: OF COURSE. After all, Necropolis is one of the most enjoyable parts of the game, with the clever exploration, fact-finding, skill-usage and problem-solving involved there - most of which involves very little combat. And all of Necropolis is infinitely more enjoyable than the more routine combat encounters in the game.

Yet, I feel Fallout is largely enjoyable as a combat-centric game, with a very strong exploration process thrown alongside.

It isn't a big achievement to record Gizmo's confession or to convince a farmer to do crop rotation.

It is, however, a big achievement to take a flamethrower to a bunch of raiders that forcefully occupied another farmer's house, with all those dozen raiders having shotguns right ready inside the house to blow your head off.

Players could figure out the former with a walkthrough or from an already finished first time playthrough. To repeat the latter requires some connivance even the second time you do it, because every combat encounter always plays out differently. And even if your dialogue changes because of differences in your Intelligence or Perception or anything, most of the game will be exactly the same irrespective of that. Where it will seriously differ is in your choices to equip and build your character to survive some hard fights.

A long time ago, a poster made a topic complaining about how one can not avoid combat in Fallout. And my response: if you actually took out all the combat in Fallout, it would not be even 50% as fun as it is with combat. Indeed, you need combat in order to enjoy avoiding combat at all.

 

[Excidium]

I find the combat in Fallout to be enjoyable and dull at the same time.

Enjoyable because of the variety of stuff you can do, the combat descriptions, floaters and death animations.

Dull because sooner or later it all boils down to aiming at the eyes (or the groin for lulz).

 

[Destroid]

Combat in FO is pretty crappy. It can take a long time and later in the game the only real way to die is to get unlucky and be instagibbed by a citical hit.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

I enjoy Fallout combat as a sort of... minigame, if you will. It's good for what it is, but it's certainly not my go-to for a great combat-centric RPG.

 

[Mastermind]

Fallout exploration was shit. There just weren't enough locations to justify claiming otherwise.

 

[Jaesun]

Dull because sooner or later it all boils down to aiming at the eyes (or the groin for lulz).

That's why I typically choose Fast Shot, so I can no longer take aimed shots.

 

[Kraszu]

Fallout exploration was shit. There just weren't enough locations to justify claiming otherwise.

That is part of what made the exploration good, if you would just randomly click on the map then you would have very low chance to get anywhere so finding information on locations was actually important.

 

[Wyrmlord]

So in the opinions of the esteemed posters here, Fallout had bad combat and bad exploration. :D

I disagree, but...

Call it a whole-greater-than-sum-of-its-parts thing with Fallout? The combat is made more interesting by the exploration, the exploration is made more interesting by the skills and the system,.etc. Nothing in a game exists in isolation, of course.

It's why I said it's a good "combat-centric" game, rather than good combat game. A 75%-75% compromise on features, as opposed to a 100%-0% compromise?

 

[Jaesun]

Fallout had exceptional and tactical turn based combat?

 

[Wyrmlord]

I wouldn't say that. But I'll say it's enjoyable.

 

[Jaesun]

Yes, the combat is certainly enjoyable...

 

[Serious_Business]

"Enjoyable" is not an objective quality, and thus cannot be discussed by reasonable men. -> old codex

Yes, I like the combat, even though it's shit. -> new codex

I DON'T GIVE A SHIT -> the future of the codex

 

[Mastermind]

I don't think the combat is shit. It's enjoyable turn based popamole. Won't blow any brain cells playing it, but the same applies to Serious Sam which is still a fun game.

 

[Jaesun]

The reason Fallout is loved so much is the sum of all it's parts. Not the combat alone.

 

[G.O.D]

I love fallout, and i'll take the few flaws for granted.
Fallout, for me, set new standards for my RPG expectations.

Fallout, is in so many ways a rich game... and the combat gets easier as you level and gear up, i agree,
But especially at the beginning i think it is lots of fun.. becouse of the hazards you encounter and becouse of the small choises that can define a encounter (use stimpack, increase distance, target shot).
Which can also be your demise if you choose wrong.

The encounter system, again, awesome.
Lots of dangerous encounters, hard to predict, and keeps you on your toes.
I lost count of the times i had to sprint for my life (and loot) with a pack of centaurs and floaters on my ass.
I loved the stress of it all, somehow

Also.. i spent lots of time reading the synical discripltions when you would click random stuff like car tires or scrub..
The humor and dialog are unmatched by any other game, IMO.

 

[Renegen]

I recently replayed Fallout 1 and followed that with (many) replays of Fallout 2, it really got me to think why I enjoyed the games so much when they came out. I also contrasted the series against Baldur's Gate, which I also replayed after many years.

What really surprised me was how immersive and intense the atmosphere in Fallout was, and that most of the atmopshere was all the product of very subtle things. It first has to do with the fact you control a single character, every decision, every shot, every choice concerns you, and it works really well. But it's beyond that.

Consider for example the first time you met a Deathclaw. You probably started shooting at it with your hunting rifle, or shotgun, and to your horror it did almost nothing! Next followed a quick death. This simple "combat sequence" actually does a lot to tell you of the world around you. You learn, or imagine, that the deathclaw has very thick skin. You see it quickly move towards you, and you learn to fear it. You learn to respect the world around you and pay attention to what it says. Here you have great "RPG storytelling" through nothing more than a combat sequence.

Next consider radiation. The single most memorable part of Fallout 1 for me was The Glow. Here, the radiation was so strong it killed you. And the radiation prevented you from exploring! Here again, you as a player, make up your mind about how real the dangers of Fallout are and how dangerous the radiation is. It's not just some "gameplay mechanic", it helps to build the Fallout wasteland in your eyes. In probably every subsequent playthrough, you try to buy the expensive Rad-X and Rad-Away, simply because you want to survive.


I could go on. The Brotherhood of Steel, the Super Mutants, the Ghouls, the Vaults, each have such a unique feel to them, it builds up the world in your head. The reason why I think it works so well is because there are no elves, dwarves and fantasy setting. To me, I had never heard of a post-apocalyptic setting before. Even the intro spends much of the time telling you what a post-apocalyptic world feels like. As much as we hate Fallout 3, I imagine that many players felt the same thing as they were exploring the wasteland. The story, or writing may have been sub-par, but the Fallout world spoke to the 5 senses really well.

Fallout wasn't an uncompromisingly difficult game. But it felt like that the first time you played it. Your quest of all things even was to find water. I think it's a lost art, to be able to build a story through dying. Too many games see it as something to be avoided completely. One game that really comes up to mind for me is KGB, but Fallout clearly does it aswell. Too often, video game designers today pretend the player doesn't exist, doesn't think, doesn't react to the experience. A video game is not purely mechanical.

 

[Dionysus]

Consider for example the first time you met a Deathclaw. You probably started shooting at it with your hunting rifle, or shotgun, and to your horror it did almost nothing! Next followed a quick death. This simple "combat sequence" actually does a lot to tell you of the world around you. You learn, or imagine, that the deathclaw has very thick skin. You see it quickly move towards you, and you learn to fear it. You learn to respect the world around you and pay attention to what it says. Here you have great "RPG storytelling" through nothing more than a combat sequence.

I shot it in the eye. That's what I did to everything that had eyes.

Fallout was exceptional because of the quest design and the way that the character sheet influenced the way you interacted with the gameworld. The combat was not very good, and (outside of some classic dungeon diving) the exploration was a minigame.

 

[Roguey]

A long time ago, a poster made a topic complaining about how one can not avoid combat in Fallout. And my response: if you actually took out all the combat in Fallout, it would not be even 50% as fun as it is with combat. Indeed, you need combat in order to enjoy avoiding combat at all.

On the other hand, if you turned it into some turn-based Diablo clone (or real-time as in the case of Brotherhood of Steel) it'd be outright terrible or boring at best. But since it has no difficult puzzles, sure it needs the threat of death/conflict/failure there to make the walking and talking interesting (though there should be more interesting ways of avoiding combat than turning on your RNG-dependent invisibility spell).

 

[Achilles]

A great post Renegen, I enjoyed reading it.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Isometric view and graphics.
Descriptions of almost everything.
Combat - aimed attacks, critical hits and descriptions, extreme violence, turn-based.
Multiple quest solutions, non-linearity.
Character creation and development, importance of stats and skills.
Setting.
Music.
Talking heads.

Consider for example the first time you met a Deathclaw. You probably started shooting at it with your hunting rifle, or shotgun, and to your horror it did almost nothing! Next followed a quick death. This simple "combat sequence" actually does a lot to tell you of the world around you. You learn, or imagine, that the deathclaw has very thick skin. You see it quickly move towards you, and you learn to fear it. You learn to respect the world around you and pay attention to what it says. Here you have great "RPG storytelling" through nothing more than a combat sequence.

Next consider radiation. The single most memorable part of Fallout 1 for me was The Glow. Here, the radiation was so strong it killed you. And the radiation prevented you from exploring! Here again, you as a player, make up your mind about how real the dangers of Fallout are and how dangerous the radiation is. It's not just some "gameplay mechanic", it helps to build the Fallout wasteland in your eyes. In probably every subsequent playthrough, you try to buy the expensive Rad-X and Rad-Away, simply because you want to survive.

If stuff like this happens to you, then you're playing it wrong. With the Deathclaw, Harold advises you to shoot in the eyes and with radiation they advice you to get anti-rad drugs.

 

[Father Walker]

Isometric view and graphics.
Descriptions of almost everything.
Combat - aimed attacks, critical hits and descriptions, extreme violence, turn-based.
Multiple quest solutions, non-linearity.
Character creation and development, importance of stats and skills.
Setting.
Music.
Talking heads.

This.

Combat in Fallout was pretty limited when it comes to meaningful tactical options. Aim for the eyes, take stimpak, repeat. It was entertaining during the first playthrough, though I don't think I'd manage to enjoy it now after playing JA2 for countless hours. Pity they didn't try to steal more ideas from GURPS and decided to rip the basics from D&D (i.e. levels and loads of hit points). A Fallout game with a tactical combat in vein of JA2 would be pretty cool to play.

 

[Excidium]

A Fallout game with a tactical combat in vein of JA2 would be fucking heavan.

Fixed.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Consider for example the first time you met a Deathclaw. You probably started shooting at it with your hunting rifle, or shotgun, and to your horror it did almost nothing! Next followed a quick death. This simple "combat sequence" actually does a lot to tell you of the world around you. You learn, or imagine, that the deathclaw has very thick skin. You see it quickly move towards you, and you learn to fear it. You lern to respect the world around you and pay attention to what it says. Here you have great "RPG storytelling" through nothing more than a combat sequence.

I remember the first time I played it, I went randomly walking around on the world map and ran into the militay base. I had something like a 10mm SMG. Got cut in half by a mutant on the very edge of where the screen would scroll to, with a Laser Rifle. It was awesome when much later in the game I came back and could finally blow them away and make my way to the Master's second in command (Who has the best death animation evar BTW).

All of those warm, fuzzy memories were then neatly pissed on a few years later by Fallout 3 when about an hour or 2 in, I ran into mutants and could explode their heads with a 10mm pistol.

 

[Captain Shrek]

To me:

The writing (Dialogue and the storyline progression): The humor was extraordinary.
The World design (excellent and funny apocalyptic world): It created the perfect atmosphere that suited by exploratory needs.
The RPG elements (Character creation and progression): huge replayability. Especially since the character creation changes gameplay entirely including dialogue.

I did not particularly enjoy combat as I am more interested in playing RT/Round-based games (NWN2) than TB; but that factor was offset by rest of the excellent parts.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Isometric view and graphics.
Descriptions of almost everything.
Combat - aimed attacks, critical hits and descriptions, extreme violence, turn-based.
Multiple quest solutions, non-linearity.
Character creation and development, importance of stats and skills.
Setting.
Music.
Talking heads.

This and the fact it was my first CRPG. O sweet wasted youth.