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Titanic Quest: Crate Speak About Grim Dawn

VentilatorOfDoom

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<p>RPS did <a href="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/03/titanic-quest-crate-speak-about-grim-dawn/" target="_blank">a lengthy interview</a> with <strong>Grim Dawn</strong> developer <a href="http://www.crateentertainment.com/">Crate Entertainment</a>.</p>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>RPS: The action RPG seems to be becoming more popular of late, which is great news. How will Grim Dawn stand out &ndash; what makes it unique?</strong></p>
<p><strong>
</strong></p>
<p>Bruno: I think we&rsquo;re probably unique just in the sense that, while most studios are redesigning their games to be more casual-player friendly, we&rsquo;re busy making Grim Dawn more complex and probably casual-player hostile.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think older, traditional PC games had a certain magic that has been lost in most modern games. Bethesda comes to mind as one of the few big companies left still making games with the kind of depth and magic that games had when I was a kid. I mean no disrespect in saying this, but their games are sort of complex, clunky, and often rife with imbalance and exploit. The very sort of imbalances and exploits that I delight in discovering and abusing but not the sort that are so bad they ruin the game. They are the sort of complex but loose systems that leave the player wondering how far they can push the limits of what is possible, and where there are no hard caps obviously and arbitrarily restricting what they can do. I sometimes wonder whether this sort of thing is intentional or not. I certainly add some deliberate measure of this in my games where I can get away with it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I love systems that are asymmetrical and chaotic, where the player can&rsquo;t easily see the tell-tale structure and patterns of deliberate, organized human design. The real world isn&rsquo;t always perfectly planned or sensible and I don&rsquo;t think game worlds should be either, otherwise you see the hand of the developers everywhere you look and it erodes the magic of feeling like you are in a living and unpredictable world. Exploration of game systems is all about the discovery of what is possible. When there is too clear a structure and pattern to the design, not only does it feel artificial but the player is much more quickly able to assess the limits of the system. Unfortunately, most of the industry is moving away from this sort of design.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Considering the drought in action RPGs over the last years and how developers spammed us with real full-fledged RPGs, another action RPG is good news indeed. Can't have enough of those.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/104125-grim-dawn-interview-and-screenshots.html">Gamebanshee</a></p>
 

Captain_Obvious

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VentilatorOfDoom said:
Bruno: I think we’re probably unique just in the sense that, while most studios are redesigning their games to be more casual-player friendly, we’re busy making Grim Dawn more complex and probably casual-player hostile.

He seems to talk the talk, but I stopped reading after that, spotted the name of the devil in the next paragraph and didn't want to ruin what few expectations remain.
 

Zarniwoop

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Bruno: I think we’re probably unique just in the sense that, while most studios are redesigning their games to be more casual-player friendly, we’re busy making Grim Dawn more complex and probably casual-player hostile.

I think older, traditional PC games had a certain magic that has been lost in most modern games.

Liking this guy so far... casuals can go eat a truckload of donkey dicks.

Bethesda comes to mind as one of the few big companies left still making games with the kind of depth and magic that games had when I was a kid.

:rage:
 

Raapys

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Well, read the next line.

their games are sort of complex, clunky, and often rife with imbalance and exploit.
So it's not like he's praising them for writing, story, quests or anything like that. He's praising the exploitable game mechanics, which I admit Bethesda still has going for them.
 
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I liked this part:
Arthur Bruno said:
One of the biggest things I would have liked to improve was the general presentation and feel of the game. God of War’s dark and edgy feel was a much sexier way to sell mythology to people.
:rage:
Yes, Titan Quest wasn't raping it nearly tastefully enough.
I am now imagining a history class themed after God of War...
Am now nauseated.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Thing is, ancient mythology and history are already full of violence and sex so why the fuck would you need to artificially GRIMDARKEN it any more?
 

felipepepe

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I share his viewpoint. Exploits that are not gamebreaking are cool sometimes, like the overpowered builds in NWN 2 and Baldur's Gate II. They were nice to uncover and made you feel like you had an edge over the game, but it never made the game boring nor made any other character unplayable. You could make the most ridiculous character possible and still play the game and have some fun.

I much rather have that kind of game design that Mr. Jeff Vogel spending my skill points for me to make sure I don't fuck things up or create an exploit character...
 

Menckenstein

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Guy is clearly kissing Bethesda's ass hoping to get picked up so he can splash around in their giant pool of money with Wonder Woman.
 
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JarlFrank said:
Thing is, ancient mythology and history are already full of violence and sex so why the fuck would you need to artificially GRIMDARKEN it any more?
The problem isn't so much the violating and sexing, as much as doing it in an obscenely juvenile, singular-purpose way. Compare Dostoyevsky's "Crime & Punishment" and Fallout 3, if you will. There's violence in both, but we don't see Raskolnikov running around, explode-axing everyone in sight looking for his father, the middle-aged guy, then having a soft-porn threesome with the old lady and her half-sister.

I mean, what's the point in taking the classics none of your target audience is even remotely aware of and then turning them into B-grade popcorn trash? Satire? Hardly. Trying to educate the chimps in their language? Can't see one struggling through a single page of the original after the factp.
Just... Bah...
 

DalekFlay

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Gotta love the insto-rage when hearing Bethesda and positive comments in the same remark. The truth of the matter is that what he praised them for are exactly the things they do right.
 

felipepepe

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Multiple Sarcasm said:
JarlFrank said:
Thing is, ancient mythology and history are already full of violence and sex so why the fuck would you need to artificially GRIMDARKEN it any more?
The problem isn't so much the violating and sexing, as much as doing it in an obscenely juvenile, singular-purpose way. Compare Dostoyevsky's "Crime & Punishment" and Fallout 3, if you will. There's violence in both, but we don't see Raskolnikov running around, explode-axing everyone in sight looking for his father, the middle-aged guy, then having a soft-porn threesome with the old lady and her half-sister.

I mean, what's the point in taking the classics none of your target audience is even remotely aware of and then turning them into B-grade popcorn trash? Satire? Hardly. Trying to educate the chimps in their language? Can't see one struggling through a single page of the original after the factp.
Just... Bah...
Aren't you trying a little too hard? "Crime & Punishment" and Fallout 3, really?

A game that tries to replicate the feeling of the book would had to be more movie-like than Heavy Rain. Few games have ever come close to making the player feel bad & guilty of choices they made....and they mostly do by removing the save&load.

Fallout 3 was awesome-button and slowmo exploding corpses all the way. The most remebered momment by players was nuking a city and laughing about it...
 
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felipepepe said:
Aren't you trying a little too hard? "Crime & Punishment" and Fallout 3, really?

A game that tries to replicate the feeling of the book would had to be more movie-like than Heavy Rain. Few games have ever come close to making the player feel bad & guilty of choices they made....and they mostly do by removing the save&load.

Fallout 3 was awesome-button and slowmo exploding corpses all the way. The most remebered momment by players was nuking a city and laughing about it...
"Trying"? I thought I was speaking English, but apparently not. Comparing the portrayal of violence was the purpose, and at that I was pretty clear. However many "tries" it takes for you to say something as trivial I will not pry.
Want to compare their plots and "feeling", though? Be my guest.
 

Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
DalekFlay said:
Gotta love the insto-rage when hearing Bethesda and positive comments in the same remark. The truth of the matter is that what he praised them for are exactly the things they do right.

What is the meaning of this? The lack of edginess in this post must be purged with fire.
 

commie

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
It is trying too hard though. Next you'll bring up Master and Margarita and compare the portrayal of the devil and witchcraft there with Diablo.

Why compare the incomparable? Like this you can look at every single RPG ever made and show that the portrayal of violence pales in comparison to a classic novel. It's the mother of all strawmen though.
 

felipepepe

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Multiple Sarcasm said:
felipepepe said:
Aren't you trying a little too hard? "Crime & Punishment" and Fallout 3, really?

A game that tries to replicate the feeling of the book would had to be more movie-like than Heavy Rain. Few games have ever come close to making the player feel bad & guilty of choices they made....and they mostly do by removing the save&load.

Fallout 3 was awesome-button and slowmo exploding corpses all the way. The most remebered momment by players was nuking a city and laughing about it...
"Trying"? I thought I was speaking English, but apparently not. Comparing the portrayal of violence was the purpose, and at that I was pretty clear. However many "tries" it takes for you to say something as trivial I will not pry.
Want to compare their plots and "feeling", though? Be my guest.
If you can't see how the portrayal of violence in the book is directly related to the plot and the mood the autor sets, I will not take this discusison foward. Let's just say if he killed the old lady by exploding her to bits in slowmo with a bazooka it would be a different kind of book....maybe writen by Kafka.

It's what Commie said, why compare the incomparable? :?
 

Metro

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I get the feeling they'll make the same mistakes they made in Titan Ques: soulless world comprised of football fields of loot grinds. Plus I can't think of any aspects of TQ that I'd consider 'hardcore.' Maybe the intricacy of the class/talent system but I wouldn't call it 'hardcore' as much as overdeveloped in relation to the rest of the game. It's pretty much just there as a meta game for people who want to min/max.

Oh, it's also going to be somewhat 'episodic' or released in parts. :/
 

Turisas

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Metro said:
I get the feeling they'll make the same mistakes they made in Titan Ques: soulless world comprised of football fields of loot grinds.

What else do you need in a click 'n loot game? Some of those areas were pretty purdy, too.

Oh, it's also going to be somewhat 'episodic' or released in parts. :/

Well, shit. :?
 

Callaxes

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laclongquan said:
Oedipus killed his father, fucked his mother, gouged his eyes out and travel faraway with his daughter. Grimdark enough?

The thing is, whenever you summarize the storyline of a greek tragedy without going into detail, it sounds profoundly grimdark and meaningful.

But, when you actually sit down and read the dialogs in Sophocles or Euripides they just sound so childish that it's hard to take them seriously.
 

felipepepe

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Callaxes said:
laclongquan said:
Oedipus killed his father, fucked his mother, gouged his eyes out and travel faraway with his daughter. Grimdark enough?

The thing is, whenever you summarize the storyline of a greek tragedy without going into detail, it sounds profoundly grimdark and meaningful.

But, when you actually sit down and read the dialogs in Sophocles or Euripides they just sound so childish that it's hard to take them seriously.
It's the other way around, no? The short version sounds like a 15-old boy trying to sound as "bad / tough" as possible...
 

Kaanyrvhok

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Compared to the typical action RPGs Bethesda's games are loaded with depth. They just aren't balanced for high levels so much of the depth is lost as you play the game.
 

Callaxes

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felipepepe said:
It's the other way around, no? The short version sounds like a 15-old boy trying to sound as "bad / tough" as possible...

Well Oedipus aside, we mostly know the greek stories from their study of the human state, the symbols we draw from them, the modern words that are derived from them and the overall teachings we find.

I'm being subjective, but you can read a lecture or a study on - say, - The Bachhae and gain more insight than actually reading it. They have depth (no doubt about it), but I haven't yet read a greek story to live up to its hype.
 
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felipepepe said:
If you can't see how the portrayal of violence in the book is directly related to the plot and the mood the autor sets, I will not take this discusison foward.
No, you!
Seriously, though, you're saying it yourself that violence in - at least, semi-quality - literature is a device to support or carry the author's point across. I'm saying it can be the same with games, that they don't have to be inherently meaningless with their juvenile gut porn to be entertaining to anyone that isn't a drooling imbecile on meth.
Nothing to do with media, everything to do with sensibility and actual maturity. I'm not saying games should be solemn and serious business, I'm saying they don't have to be moronic to be fun or convey/improve upon the material they're working with.
 

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