Starcraft Ascension tournament(movies - english commentary)

[Kraszu]

I recommend game 1 from group 3 to watch, as game is good, and commentators give good insights on why players play, the way they do.

http://www.mediaesports.com/tv/ascension

 

[whatusername]

Very interesting watch. Thanks for the link.

Does anyone know where I can get the replays of some tournament games?

 

[Suicidal]

I've watched quite alot on Youtube, look there. If you want the actual replay files try gosugamers.net - it has some.

 

[TrustNo1]

Just wanted to say thank you for this link. This stuff becomes much more fun to watch when you actually understand the commentary.

Group 3 was greatness.

Edit: Kinda miss the korean fangirlz

 

[almantas]

Thank you very much for the link, It was a very interesting watch. Anything more like this on the net? I know youtube is full of replays, but it's much more interesting with commentary.

 

[Jasede]

Thanks! I am not very good at this game and don't play it anymore but this is still an interesting watch.

Edit: I need to edit my statement - despite my low interest in the game, this is really exciting! Many thanks!

 

[Suicidal]

Thank you very much for the link, It was a very interesting watch. Anything more like this on the net? I know youtube is full of replays, but it's much more interesting with commentary.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=KlazartSC

I believe this user has a bunch of replays with english commentary.

 

[kingcomrade]

http://teamliquid.net/
I'm pretty sure their VODs are in English. I don't remember.

 

[Jasede]

Starcraft is super balanced!
*Protoss win every game in group 6*

 

[kingcomrade]

in before metallix insists that despite reavers, 75 mana psionic storm, time and efficiency advantages for cost, best ground units in the game, unbeatable corsairs (against Zerg), unbeatable mass carriers (against Terran) etc. Protoss are perfectly balanced because...erm, because Starcraft is perfectly balanced because it's Starcraft.

 

[Kraszu]

Those are good:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jrkrfyvzkDc&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9eSX70jy4tE&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AgF0iFi8jH0&feature=related

Don't draw conclusion about balance after seeing few games. If Protoss would have significant advantage over diferent races we would have PvP finals almost alweys, actually Terran won most tournaments in history, and there were many TvT finals. If P would have significant advantage over other races then there would be very few or no professional zerg/terran players.

 

[Jasede]

Kraszu, we're just being playful. For a non-professional Starcraft player Protoss do seem pretty overpowered, especially against Zerg. But of course if I were better I'd maybe revise this impression. After all, Ultralisks + Cracklings + Dark Swarm = outlandish.

 

[Hory]

Don't draw conclusion about balance after seeing few games. If Protoss would have significant advantage over diferent races we would have PvP finals almost alweys, actually Terran won most tournaments in history, and there were many TvT finals. If P would have significant advantage over other races then there would be very few or no professional zerg/terran players.

Protoss has several over-powered units, and there comes a time when Zerg or Humans simply can't oppose a Protoss army built from an equal number of resources as theirs. Show me a unit more cost-effective than the High Templar. Untill a point, the game is balanced enough, and of course Protoss doesn't win every time. But even on paper, the game is unbalanced in Protoss' favor - why should they have more units to choose from?

Ultralisks + Cracklings + Dark Swarm = outlandish.

Firebats + Medics + Science Vessels > Ultralisk + Cracklings + Dark Swarm
Infantry + SV > Any Zerg strategy

 

[Atrokkus]

Protoss has several over-powered units, and there comes a time when Zerg or Humans simply can't oppose a Protoss army built from an equal number of resources as theirs. Show me a unit more cost-effective than the High Templar. Untill a point, the game is balanced enough, and of course Protoss doesn't win every time. But even on paper, the game is unbalanced in Protoss' favor - why should they have more units to choose from?

Bullshit. There is never such a thing that "OMG at some point it's impossible blablabla". ANY amount of ANY troops has an adequate counter. If you can't grasp that - then you really just need to lern to play better, and analyze replays more thoughtfully.

Also, you must realize that Ascension is a non-Korean tournament, so it really is not something you want to base your judgement of balance on. On the world scene the playerbase is very multifarious -- sure there are real good players (some russians, german mondragon, ukranian strelok, some americans, and just a handful of others), but there are tons of less skillful players. However, a tournament (any tournament) requires not only the "game skill" but also the nerve, or "tournament skill", so factors of victory are, again, manifold. Whereas Korean leagues that are held on a regular basis have a monolithic player base, comprised of only the best players with rigorous training who play for the living, not as a hobby or part-time endeavor.

Infantry + SV > Any Zerg strategy

Generally yes, but that doesnt mean there is an imbalance. it's juts that terrans usually play through infantry against zerg.

unbeatable corsairs (against Zerg),

Sure, they are unbeatable. FOR YOU.
Kraszu can explain it much better to you, because he's a zerg player himself, on how to beat early corsair harassment.
Corsair harassment is just that - a harassment, not meant to destroy the enemy altogether, but to distract and disrupt his economy. Microing scourges (and i know you have trouble with that -- but, again, that's *your* fault, not that of zerg race), or making your overlords float above spores or hydras. and in mid-game, overlords have to be, ya know, microed, and be close to your forces (and of coruse there must be a constant surplus of troops). All those little things are required for effective play, and if you fail at them, that's you being a worse player, not the race.

If you are not a progamer yourself, listen to those who actually play the game well. No I dont mean myself - im quite nooby as well. I mean actual progamers, who evaluate the balance based on their own experience. And so far, not a single korean progamer ever complained about any of the matchups being imbalanced.
I'm not saying the game is perfect. But the imbalance lies only in the MAPS. Maps make certain matchups imba, and koreans love inventing new maps very often to make gameplay shows more interesting and fresh, and that breeds a lot of imba. But on balanced maps, there is racial imba. End of story.

And yes, it's common knowledge that different races have different learning curves. Protoss have the easiest learning curve there is, that's a wellknown theory, and im getting convinced by the opinions of many an experienced player that it's a fact. Hence the imbalance in the non-korean starcraft scene -- terran or zerg players usually just lack the skills to operate their races properly, which leads people to believe that protoss are inherently imbalanced, even though progamers in korea have no problems with them. HOW CUM

 

[kingcomrade]

Sure, they are unbeatable. FOR YOU.

Is this the new excuse?

that's *your* fault

I'm responsible for the actions of the other player?

or making your overlords float above spores or hydra

Enjoy trying to ever expand or attack ever.

I'm not saying the game is perfect.

Yes, you are.

The easiest way to tell that Protoss is the most powerful race is that metallix became a Protoss player.

edit-

koreans love inventing new maps very often to make gameplay shows more interesting and fresh, and that breeds a lot of imba.

So interesting and fresh that I see Protoss do the same strategy all the time? Corsairs and Templar then Reavers against Zerg, Dragoons and then mass Carriers against Terran?

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

Koreans are the only ones worthy of saying what is and isn't balanced in Starcraft.

 

[Hory]

I think the game would be a lot more balanced if Zerg had Feedback instead of Protoss, because at this point, Irradiate and Psi Storm are just overpowered against them. Protoss has Feedback and isn't even at risk of 1) Having every unit irradiated or 2) Losing 5x5cm of units from a 75 mana cost spell (unless playing against another Protoss, in which case both have the same spells.

 

[NiM82]

I notice in the videos they seem to imply the balance has changed (recently?) with many maps favoring different races now. Is this due due to balance tweaks/patches, or simply strategies still being evolved/tweaked? I never played SC competively (or online, much), so haven't a clue how it's developed.

 

[kingcomrade]

They just mean new maps.

 

[Kraszu]

New strategies also evolve Bisu build would be one. New maps if they are diferent enough also "produce" new strategies. Boxer often do something creative also, but his strategies are more of 1 time use.

 

[kingcomrade]

I don't think changing your build order for the first five minutes of the game really counts as a strategy.

 

[Kraszu]

I don't think changing your build order for the first five minutes of the game really counts as a strategy.

Well you have to time it right and have "answers" to possible counters of opponent so it is more complex then that. Anyway I don't recall anybody using dt/corsair harass as so important part of strategy before.

Group 7 is up.

 

[Shannow]

I haven't played sc in years but I'm really enjoying these vids. Especially with the commentary going. What I noticed is that the armies sometimes seem quite big, but nobody ever mentions the unit cap. Was it removed or is my memory just failing me?

 

[asper]

Group 8 is up.

Interesting vids.

 

[almantas]

If you somehow managed to miss it, round 2 match ups are uuuuup.