Trenchmouth - a Point and Click Adventure - to be or not to be?

[Victor Pflug]

Whew, okay - where the *hell* to begin!

So I haven't been very active at all around here since basically Primordia days, for that I apologize. I guess I work in my own bubble a fair bit, and I usually also rely on my co-conspirator Mark Yohalem to be the mouth, the brains and the ears of our studio.

But I guess I should just launch into it. Long story short is I really really want to make a follow-up to Primordia. Strangeland was a great project to work on, but it was always Mark's initial idea, as Primordia was my baby initially, so I felt like I never really got to sink my teeth into creating the sort of world that *I* truly like creating, with Strangeland. My own fault of course - Strangeland, like Primordia was initially meant to be a smaller scale project, but we made the decision in both cases to go full-size, full commercial and while I don't regret that at all; I just have a lot more ideas for games basically set in the universe of Primordia, if not actual follow-ups (if not actual sequels, but I won't go into that here).

So, where do we stand? Mark is currently working on an RPG game (with some help from me) and our programmer James has his own thing going on too with Carbon Flesh. But I want to make another adventure game along the lines, or at least with the same feel as Primordia, and the good news is I basically almost have. May I present to you, Trenchmouth (pretty sure I haven't unveiled any of this here yet). My follow up to Primordia. A classic throwback style P&C set in a world populated for the most part by machines. Unlike Primordia though this game would draw a bit more influence from the real world, the setting is in essence an alternate version of WW1, a first world war that has raged on so long as to be almost now a living world of war. Machines live in No Mans Land and scrape out an existence on the constant, dreary battlescape. Then the plot comes in - but I won't spoil that yet.

So yeah that's the premise, here's the pre-production;

This is part of the work I've done solo so far, plus GDD which I've had help with. Plus a bunch of other stuff including a soundtrack very much underway.

So after seeing the thread here for Summer Daze - a Hero U spinoff, and seeing some people here had funded that, I began to wonder what my chances might be for getting some financial help through Kickstarter for *my* project. If they can do it, I mean maybe I could?

I think the Hero-U Spinoff asked for 100K?. I can make Trenchmouth for 50. Ya'll liked Primordia right? So this game was/is much harder to develop than Primordia, which was made on a budget of zero dollars until I got Mark and James and then Wadjet Eye on board. They can't help with this one though, and maybe I could muster up enough support solo to pay or outsource help for me to work on this.

Also to be brutally honest - I basically came up with idea for Primordia on the back of a cocktail napkin. This Trenchmouth production actually has a lot of thought put into it. I think it will be better than Primordia turned out; it was designed to be. I began Primordia as a way to get my foot into the door of the games industry. So this would be more of a stride.

So that's my question - what do you think? Is this a game you'd be interested in seeing be made, or play? What do you think my chances are on Kickstarter if I went that route?

Your input and criticisms are, as always, valued.

Victor

 

[Greek Anime God]

Strangeland was a great project to work on, but it was always Mark's initial idea, as Primordia was my baby initially

Explains why I didn't like Strangeland as much as Primordia, I played SL hoping for something more in line with the first game and didn't appreciate the direction it took.

So that's my question - what do you think? Is this a game you'd be interested in seeing be made, or play?

Yes, it looks very promising.

What do you think my chances are on Kickstarter if I went that route?

Aren't you who are in the business supposed to know that? I would probably back it but I have no idea what the KS situation looks like these days.

 

[Maxie]

If Primordia, being frankly one of the best adventure games of the past decade, was a serviette project, then what guarantee we have that Trenchmouth won't be overthinked if it's given so much more planning etc.
What of puzzle design etc. I still screech mad at Daedalic for releasing some art for Devil's Men and never following through
Too many variables to give a sensible opinion consumer-wise, you go entertain us with some two-screen demo first Victor

 

[Hobo Elf]

Based on the art and character designs I'd say I'm interested. Don't have much of an opinion on kickstarter, however, since I no longer partake in crowd funding, but if this popped up on Steam or GOG I'd buy it immediately.

 

[Victor Pflug]

If Primordia, being frankly one of the best adventure games of the past decade, was a serviette project, then what guarantee we have that Trenchmouth won't be overthinked if it's given so much more planning etc.
What of puzzle design etc. I still screech mad at Daedalic for releasing some art for Devil's Men and never following through
Too many variables to give a sensible opinion consumer-wise, you go entertain us with some two-screen demo first Victor

Yeah course there's no way to guarantee that Trenchmouth wasn't overthinked - that's a good point. I'm not going to really make a counterpoint (A demo or teaser gameplay would be a good next step definitely agree thank you) but there is the fact that we at WWS have Cloudscape on the back burner, or development hell whichever way you want to see it. I'll put it this way - I've put maybe a few hundred hours into pre-production for Trenchmouth. I've put several thousand hours into the pre-production for Cloudscape. If there's any game we ever make, that risks being overcomplex or overthinked, it will be Cloudscape, not Trenchmouth - just in my opinion.

 

[Jenkem]

i thought strangeland was decent but it felt disjointed and lacked the great worldbuilding of primordia. hope this one is good.

 

[Daedalos]

Fuck yeah dooood..

This is what I want. Haven't actually played Strangeland yet, but im gonna.

But primordia is excellent. I love SCI-FI. I hope this turns out amazing dude. im backing it 100 %

 

[ghostdog]

Seems like a pretty cool idea.

About Primordia, wasn't MRY the main writer of primordia? Or is that false?

Also you're using the same avatar with MRY and you're confusing us..

 

[HorribleHombre]

You have enough of an audience built up from Primordia that a KS would definitely be successful.

 

[Don Peste]

Who's this cutie pie???

 

[lightbane]

I'm sold from the design alone. MOAR!

 

[rusty_shackleford]

voted no because I dislike scamstarter, if you have a place to pre-order it I'll do that though.

 

[Victor Pflug]

Seems like a pretty cool idea.

About Primordia, wasn't MRY the main writer of primordia? Or is that false?

Also you're using the same avatar with MRY and you're confusing us..

Yeah that's the caveat I should have been more up front with possibly - Mark did write and co-design Primordia - I consider us around 50/50 of the basic creative input when it comes to Primordia. James, being the programmer was possibly even MORE essential than either of us, and also had his own creative input.
I'm fully willing to admit it's possible Trenchmouth will be bad without Mark involved, it's just as possible it will be bad without James involved. Will it be worse that other games being Kickstarted in the genre - I highly fuckin' doubt it. Will I risk making it? Well, I took a risk when I started Primordia - but that's the rub I guess - I only started Primordia - it became a voice of three. It's no more mine than it is theirs in a lot of ways. Maybe that was the magic. Maybe I can make that magic elsewhere? I need to find out. What else am I gonna do with my time? Make an RPG? Well, possibly.

As to your confusion over the avatars - me Victor, he Mark. That's the best I can do I ain't makin' mine some shit colour to differentiate it. Make HIM do that. :D

 

[Victor Pflug]

Who's this cutie pie???

Hehe - that's an NPC in Trenchmouth based on actual message running dogs they had in WW1. She's a blue heeler/kelpie cross. I call her Pip.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

This looks interesting.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

The visuals/graphics are very good.

 

[Jvegi]

RPG game

U but

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Hehe - that's an NPC in Trenchmouth based on actual message running dogs they had in WW1. She's a blue heeler/kelpie cross. I call her Pip.

Thank you anon! You are a good anon!

 

[Zariusz]

Whew, okay - where the *hell* to begin!

So I haven't been very active at all around here since basically Primordia days, for that I apologize. I guess I work in my own bubble a fair bit, and I usually also rely on my co-conspirator Mark Yohalem to be the mouth, the brains and the ears of our studio.

But I guess I should just launch into it. Long story short is I really really want to make a follow-up to Primordia. Strangeland was a great project to work on, but it was always Mark's initial idea, as Primordia was my baby initially, so I felt like I never really got to sink my teeth into creating the sort of world that *I* truly like creating, with Strangeland. My own fault of course - Strangeland, like Primordia was initially meant to be a smaller scale project, but we made the decision in both cases to go full-size, full commercial and while I don't regret that at all; I just have a lot more ideas for games basically set in the universe of Primordia, if not actual follow-ups (if not actual sequels, but I won't go into that here).

So, where do we stand? Mark is currently working on an RPG game (with some help from me) and our programmer James has his own thing going on too with Carbon Flesh. But I want to make another adventure game along the lines, or at least with the same feel as Primordia, and the good news is I basically almost have. May I present to you, Trenchmouth (pretty sure I haven't unveiled any of this here yet). My follow up to Primordia. A classic throwback style P&C set in a world populated for the most part by machines. Unlike Primordia though this game would draw a bit more influence from the real world, the setting is in essence an alternate version of WW1, a first world war that has raged on so long as to be almost now a living world of war. Machines live in No Mans Land and scrape out an existence on the constant, dreary battlescape. Then the plot comes in - but I won't spoil that yet.

So yeah that's the premise, here's the pre-production;

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This is part of the work I've done solo so far, plus GDD which I've had help with. Plus a bunch of other stuff including a soundtrack very much underway.

So after seeing the thread here for Summer Daze - a Hero U spinoff, and seeing some people here had funded that, I began to wonder what my chances might be for getting some financial help through Kickstarter for *my* project. If they can do it, I mean maybe I could?

I think the Hero-U Spinoff asked for 100K?. I can make Trenchmouth for 50. Ya'll liked Primordia right? So this game was/is much harder to develop than Primordia, which was made on a budget of zero dollars until I got Mark and James and then Wadjet Eye on board. They can't help with this one though, and maybe I could muster up enough support solo to pay or outsource help for me to work on this.

Also to be brutally honest - I basically came up with idea for Primordia on the back of a cocktail napkin. This Trenchmouth production actually has a lot of thought put into it. I think it will be better than Primordia turned out; it was designed to be. I began Primordia as a way to get my foot into the door of the games industry. So this would be more of a stride.

So that's my question - what do you think? Is this a game you'd be interested in seeing be made, or play? What do you think my chances are on Kickstarter if I went that route?

Your input and criticisms are, as always, valued.

Victor

Is graphical style somewhat settled or are you expecting it will change slightly? I ask because face of that girl from that main picture in my opinion looks like it was made in different style, compared to portraits of that nurse and soldier.

 

[Victor Pflug]

Is graphical style somewhat settled or are you expecting it will change slightly? I ask because face of that girl from that main picture in my opinion looks like it was made in different style, compared to portraits of that nurse and soldier.

No it's not completely settled yet - some of those portraits were me settling into the style - the nurse and that smoking soldier were the first two with I think the later ones closer to what I was going for.

I've also been messing around with rigging these in Live2d Cubism for a much more dynamically animated portrait - I mean much more than anything we attempted with Primordia anyway.

Edit) As you can see it's an incredibly simple process lol

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I want to be supportive because the art/setting sounds and looks great, but when it comes to Kickstarter specifically I am a bit leery. I've heard too many sketchy things about the way the platform works to feel comfortable contributing to it. That said, if you set up a paypal account for donations then I am happy to shoot you $30 and I don't care if I ever see a finished project (although that would also be cool!); just hope you keep trying to make games.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Voted no.

The art and setting look amazing, it's a definite buy from me. But just release it with zero warning or hype, like Primordia and Strangeland.

I'm over Kickstarter, pre-orders and other pay-now-play-later-or-maybe-never scams.

Paying developers ahead of time never seems to work out well. It's like they spend the money early on, then there's no motivation to finish the thing properly. They rush to get something out the door and waste a lot of resources on fulfilling pledges etc.

Plus, no KS = no annoying purple-haired millennials being characters in the game because they saved up their Wendy's paychecks for a top tier pledge.

 

[Victor Pflug]

Voted no.

The art and setting look amazing, it's a definite buy from me. But just release it with zero warning or hype, like Primordia and Strangeland.

I'm over Kickstarter, pre-orders and other pay-now-play-later-or-maybe-never scams.

Paying developers ahead of time never seems to work out well. It's like they spend the money early on, then there's no motivation to finish the thing properly. They rush to get something out the door and waste a lot of resources on fulfilling pledges etc.

Plus, no KS = no annoying purple-haired millennials being characters in the game because they saved up their Wendy's paychecks for a top tier pledge.

Yeah but it's pretty much as I said - without funding this can't just be made secretly and then pop up fully formed out of the ether. That just isn't going to happen. It's too large, too complex and too much of a gamble (especially with Strangeland not doing quite as well as Primordia). I also feel like - we make games that are about as good as other developers who have done very well on Kickstarter. Take Wasteland for instance - now I'm not saying Primordia was as good as that - but it was sold alongside it in a Post Apocalypse bundle. So apparently it has equal footing, of a kind.

That's not me trying to blow my own horn it's just what happened. Now, why should I eat carrots for dinner to make a game secretly when they get 2 million dollars to make a game up front? I guess this is a case of "I want a slice of that pie too" but that's the thing. I literally just need some pie, most of the time. The idea was you could trust paying this developer ahead of time, hopefully due to the trust we'd have built up from Primordia and Strangeland - being able to deliver solid, fresh Point and Clicks in a reasonable time.

 

[Victor Pflug]

But just release it with zero warning or hype, like Primordia and Strangeland.

Making Strangeland almost killed me dude - don't get me wrong I appreciate the props but yeah... I could have made that game (or a game like it) in one year instead of three with a bit of funding. My archive for it has 40, 000 art and SFX files, all made by me. Would be nice to delegate *some* of that workload haha.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Voted no.

The art and setting look amazing, it's a definite buy from me. But just release it with zero warning or hype, like Primordia and Strangeland.

I'm over Kickstarter, pre-orders and other pay-now-play-later-or-maybe-never scams.

Paying developers ahead of time never seems to work out well. It's like they spend the money early on, then there's no motivation to finish the thing properly. They rush to get something out the door and waste a lot of resources on fulfilling pledges etc.

Plus, no KS = no annoying purple-haired millennials being characters in the game because they saved up their Wendy's paychecks for a top tier pledge.

Yeah but it's pretty much as I said - without funding this can't just be made secretly and then pop up fully formed out of the ether. That just isn't going to happen. It's too large, too complex and too much of a gamble (especially with Strangeland not doing quite as well as Primordia). I also feel like - we make games that are about as good as other developers who have done very well on Kickstarter. Take Wasteland for instance - now I'm not saying Primordia was as good as that - but it was sold alongside it in a Post Apocalypse bundle. So apparently it has equal footing, of a kind.

That's not me trying to blow my own horn it's just what happened. Now, why should I eat carrots for dinner to make a game secretly when they get 2 million dollars to make a game up front? I guess this is a case of "I want a slice of that pie too" but that's the thing. I literally just need some pie, most of the time. The idea was you could trust paying this developer ahead of time, hopefully due to the trust we'd have built up from Primordia and Strangeland - being able to deliver solid, fresh Point and Clicks in a reasonable time.

I hear what you're saying. But it's not about trust, it's simply how things work.

How did Primordia "pop out fully formed from the ether"? There was no Kickstarter and it turned out to be, as others have said, one of the best Adventures in recent memory.

Bringing up Wasteland actually proves my point. WL3 feels very rushed and incomplete. Pretty much everyone who loved WL2 said 3 was nowhere near as good (and it wasn't).

As for Strangeland, the reason it didn't do so well is frankly, it's not as good of a game. It's an acquired taste - very surreallistic and it's not even clear what's going even after you finish it. Not to mention it SCREAMS IN YOUR EARS every few minutes. Primordia is much more conventional, it has characters with motivations and a coherent world and backstory that makes sense. I wouldn't even compare the two. One is like an art film and one is more like a classic, feel-good family movie. Of course one will appeal to a much broader audience.

In this case I don't even mind paying upfront. It's more Kickstarter itself that's the issue, as others have said. There must be another way?