BG II: Assassin vs Swashbuckler

[jafar]

I'm looking to give this game another go, and have a few questions:

- Does the expanded xp limit given in ToB also apply to SoA when both are installed (thus, can I reach beyond level 23 with a thief while still in SoA)?

- I'm undecided between the Assassin and Swashbuckler classes. Thoughts from those who played with these classes would be of much value. At this point I'm mostly worried about losing the backstab ability if I go with the Swashbuckler; would his added combat abilities make up for it?

- Also, since one must start as chaotic neutral (or evil) with the Assassin class, can one eventually turn it into chaotic good by performing good actions? And if yes, would there be any class penalties (eg, ranger to fallen ranger)?

Any insight would be much appreciated.

 

[Melcar]

First, get the Rogue Rebalancing mod. Totally worth it., and it should be a crime to play a thief in BG2 without it.

- Yes. The expanded XP cap applies to both games.

- Both play differently. A Swashbucler is more of a Fighter than anything; he would mostly be in the front lines as a backup tank. The Assassin is for backstabbing and fucking up people with poison; hit and run tactics.

- Yes. Don't know about loosing abilities, but a good Assassin is some fuck up thing. As for loosing abilities, I don't know but it would have been cool if you did for RP purposes.

 

[coaster]

- Does the expanded xp limit given in ToB also apply to SoA when both are installed (thus, can I reach beyond level 23 with a thief while still in SoA)?

Yes.

- I'm undecided between the Assassin and Swashbuckler classes. Thoughts from those who played with these classes would be of much value. At this point I'm mostly worried about losing the backstab ability if I go with the Swashbuckler; would his added combat abilities make up for it?

Swashie is almost as good as a fighter, but with lower XP & added AC bonuses. He's sort of a fighter/thief (although IMHO fighter/thief is better since you get fighter HLAs, better hitpoints & better THAC0). Assassin is totally different, heavily reliant on backstabs (and particularly in the early game, poison). Depends how much you like sneaking up and insta-killing things. Note most of the bosses+dragons+demons are immune to backstab, rendering the assassin rather weak in such battles.

- Also, since one must start as chaotic neutral (or evil) with the Assassin class, can one eventually turn it into chaotic good by performing good actions? And if yes, would there be any class penalties (eg, ranger to fallen ranger)?

There is only one point at the end of SoA where you can change alignment (lots of places where you can lose reputation, but that isn't the same - you can be lawful good, kill every passerby for reputation=1 and remain lawful good). I don't think there are any problems if you become a "good assassin".

 

[someone else]

Assasin's poison ability works with missile weapons, making them even more pwoerful.
I'll recommend taking an Archer, or a Kensai with throwing axe.

 

[Lockkaliber]

Two completely different classes, really.

Swashbuckler was the first class I finished the entire game with (including ToB), and while it mostly recembles a gimped fighter, the epic feat thingie that lets rogues use every item in the game makes up for it. I think there was a feat like that at least.

Assassin is pretty much how the others described it. Poison, backstab, invisibility potion, for the entire game.

 

[Wulfstand]

I'd say just go with a Stalker, since he has backstabbing and decent-to-good stealth. Backstabbing isn't that useful, ESPECIALLY in ToB, where it's basically useless (hordes of monsters/giant bosses,etc) and the stalker can dish out a really good percent of damage, being a really good dual-wielder.
However, he doesn't have any other thieving skills, so you might want to bring Jan along, give him the bracers of dexterity, and thus you have a great dual-wielding fighter with medium armor, and a great lockpicking-pickpocketing-funnyestcharacterinthegame archer in your party.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

First, get the Rogue Rebalancing mod.

No.

Swashbucklers are pretty awesome, best subclass of thieves IMO. Once you get UAI they are better than Fighters.

 

[Melcar]

Only homos don't use the RR mod, so it's no surprise emo dude.
Assassins aren't that useless in ToB. Yeah, their main strength the backstab is rendered useless, but they can poison their weapons; that with a high rate of attack weapon (darts, bows) can really hurt. Plus, you got the Slayer (and the Ravager if you use Ascension) who has a high attack rate and who's claws can also be poisoned (and since you're an evil fuck it makes sense to use the ability constantly).
If you enjoy some meta gaming, you can dual your Assassin to Fighter or a Mage once he's of high enough level (lvl 21 or so). Dualing to Fighter is pretty straight forward in terms of fighting bonuses, but a mage dual can be very fun too (Energy Blades + Poison Weapon).

 

[coaster]

RR has some good elements (Chosen of Cyric encounter actually adds some proper roleplay options to BG2 and is pretty well written) but loot is overpowered and I don't like the nerfing of the Bounty Hunter special traps. Still you can pick & choose what you install & you can always sell the goods.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Only homos don't use the RR mod, so it's no surprise emo dude.

Yeah, only real men use mods made by some rabid LARPer who masturbates to rogues hard enough so he'll revise all of them in BG2 "as it should be dammit" with no regard to game balance whatseover.

Makes hair on my chest all tingly

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

Definitely go for Fighter/Thief instead of a single thief class

 

[jafar]

Great, got everything I needed. I guess I'll be going with swashbuckler then. Some of the boss fights are what gave me the most trouble, so to think that backstab would be useless in such cases eliminates much of the attraction for me with regard to the assassin class (although I can understand, in terms of game balance, why it is that way).

Concerning the rogue mod, I don't think I'll be getting it. I always play vanilla plus official patches only, unless it's a special case (eg, Bloodlines). Still, thanks for the suggestion.

Just wondering though, now that I'll be going with the swashbuckler class (and so will have the full amount of points to spend on thief skills), is setting traps a skill worth investing in, in terms of both skill points and the time it would take to integrate such a tactic into my playstyle?

 

[1eyedking]

Human Kensai(13)/Thief(X)

Also, there is an AC cap at -17. Hard-coded.

 

[pipka]

You know what this thread lacks?
A very big list of BG mods.
:twisted:

 

[someone else]

Traps skill is overpowered.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Also, there is an AC cap at -17. Hard-coded.

Really? My level 50 Swashbuckler had something like -21AC.

 

[someone else]

Does the to-hit rolls prove that it caps at -17? You can use your own party members to get the thaco to test it out.

 

[bozia2012]

I soloed the game with a swashie - the main pro is uber THAC0 and AC. All thief classes can use all items after level 21 and the traps are insane. I got bored when I reached Underdark - had already AC -19, Carsomyr +5, Humanskin armor (uber saves) and ~100% magic immunity (2x Ring of Gaxx lol). No challenge.

Monk was fun to solo.

 

[NotAnAlt]

You know what this thread lacks?
A very big list of BG mods.
:twisted:

Would like.

 

[ever]

I you like backstabbing (which is very enjoyable) go assassin.

Assassin would be better to solo with too. The one rogue PC build I made was a swashbuckler tho.

 

[Xor]

Only BG2 mod I've ever used that was worth a damn was the bugfix one from gibberlings3.net.

 

[Jasede]

Swashbuckler is the better class by far; do not use any mods because absolutely no mod in the world isn't shit; Assassins are actually very fun to play if you realize the flaws & drawbacks of your poison & that they stack (or at least I remember them stacking).

Also doing 200 damage backstab explosions is pretty fun. Still Swashbuckler is much better and safer.

 

[Rogue]

Just play as fighter/thief. Any thief has a crappy thac0 progression table and in bg2 you start as lvl 8 or so anyway, so you won't have a problem with thieving skills.

 

[ever]

Don't use the rogue rebalance mod, its more like a make rogue the strongest class in the game mod anyway.

I use the fixpack, 90% of unfinsihed business, some tweaks from the tweak pack, ascension and some of sword coast stratagems 2

This combination of mods really is just a "completion pack" except maybe I guess a few choices in the tweak pack I made.

 

[JrK]

Kensai9->thief I once played was very enjoyable. Fuck 'overpowered', I'd played the game 20 times by then, it wasn't going to be challenging anyway.

Longsword or katana, stealth, maximized damage attack, backstab. 100 damage backstabs galore. Then once HLA's were reached the real fun began. Use Any Item and suddenly your Kensai wears a nice leather armor. Assassination and suddenly your Kensai, who was dual-wielding for 5 attacks/round, can do 1000 damage per round if improved hasted. Sheer fun that one.

I wonder if I can ever play that game again...