I don't like tat Tarot deck.
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Kz3r0
ManjuShri
What's your faves?
Kz3r0
Marseilles.
Lios
Do you have any thoughts about Elipha Levi's reading of the Tarot?
http://www.green-door.narod.ru/levitarot.html
http://www.green-door.narod.ru/levitarot.html
Kz3r0
He pushed his own agenda while pointing at some Khabbalistic undertones.
Considering that Marseille was one of the major Khabbalistic centers of Europe is not really surprising.
In my opinion he twisted or perverted some of the meanings, in general I don't like him.
Considering that Marseille was one of the major Khabbalistic centers of Europe is not really surprising.
In my opinion he twisted or perverted some of the meanings, in general I don't like him.
Lios
I don't dig the everything=jehova's glorious eternal plan state of mind either, nor the unhealthy (if unavoidable) catholic apologetic undertones
but the man was an encyclopedia and preserved many of the symbols by reinstating their essence, personal agenda nonwithstanding
he also reminds me of a wine drinking salami eating uncle
but the man was an encyclopedia and preserved many of the symbols by reinstating their essence, personal agenda nonwithstanding
he also reminds me of a wine drinking salami eating uncle
Kz3r0
Levi, differently by Crowley, was part of a genuine esoteric tradition, however I think that he corrupted it.
Lios
I'm genuinely interested to know why you believe that he corrupted it.
Kz3r0
Using baphomet as the devil is quite telling.
To my knowledge such figure is outside of all known traditions that informed the Tarots.
Seems like a 'pagan' form of luciferianism, a rationalization of ancoent fertility cults with a thin coat of gnosticism.
To my knowledge such figure is outside of all known traditions that informed the Tarots.
Seems like a 'pagan' form of luciferianism, a rationalization of ancoent fertility cults with a thin coat of gnosticism.
Lios
Hm, Levi never bought into the devil as a horned dude though, more like the concentrated essence/egregoros of human evil and "corrupted astral light" or such.
And he had this unhealthy (for me) fixation of trying to make all pagan religions look incomplete and retarted because Kabbalah, man, so I'm not sure about the rationalization of ancient fertility cults.
And he had this unhealthy (for me) fixation of trying to make all pagan religions look incomplete and retarted because Kabbalah, man, so I'm not sure about the rationalization of ancient fertility cults.
Lios
also, I have to go to sleep because eyes start fucking me up, I'll passionately continue the marvelous conversation first chance tomorrow
Kz3r0
Retconned would be more clear.
Besides Astral Light is just another way to spell Lucifer, Jewish tradition is quite adamant about mistaking Astral Light for God's light.
Besides Astral Light is just another way to spell Lucifer, Jewish tradition is quite adamant about mistaking Astral Light for God's light.
Lios
But is it practical to equate "devil/satan" (a construct of human folly) to "luciferian" (the promethean bringer of knowledge)?
As for astral light, for me it's one of those buzzwords occultists used to use to describe the indigo of the occult trip, these buzzwords get retconned themselves fairly often too (remember when all the buzz was Regardie magic=psychology, then it was the quanta?)
As for astral light, for me it's one of those buzzwords occultists used to use to describe the indigo of the occult trip, these buzzwords get retconned themselves fairly often too (remember when all the buzz was Regardie magic=psychology, then it was the quanta?)
Kz3r0
I consider Levi more 'serious'.
Based on Jewish tradition the Morning Star referred to a Babilonian king they despised, furthermore Babilon was where Astronomy and Astrology were born.
For Jews 'worshipping' stars was considered 'ignorant' of the true trascendental nature of God.
Essentially a Luciferian approach is at odds with Khabbalah.
Unless there is a 'secret' version of it but I doubt it.
Based on Jewish tradition the Morning Star referred to a Babilonian king they despised, furthermore Babilon was where Astronomy and Astrology were born.
For Jews 'worshipping' stars was considered 'ignorant' of the true trascendental nature of God.
Essentially a Luciferian approach is at odds with Khabbalah.
Unless there is a 'secret' version of it but I doubt it.
Lios
Maybe I'm mistaken but "luciferian" was used by Levi not as as such a term, but as Eosforos*, the light of genius that through its self sacrifice enabled Man to self-realize, thus Eosforos being a part of God itself. So I'm not sure whether Kabbalah is at odds with such a narration.
*see also the loans the jews took from Appolo/Dionysus, Mithras etc etc
*see also the loans the jews took from Appolo/Dionysus, Mithras etc etc
Kz3r0
That's very similar to Jesus' sacrifice.
I doubt that's Jews would be keen on that.
Seems very etherodox to me.
I doubt that's Jews would be keen on that.
Seems very etherodox to me.
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