rpgcodex > the threads can be improved by adding more replies

while it had "nostalgia" and idealization of Greeks, it was a completely different process even from XIX century Romantic industrial nostalgia.

Verylittlefishes

see Frances Yates on the "invention" of Hermeticism and art of memory, for example

Heroic Liberator

Agreed, VLF. Renaissance idealization of classical antiquity was the aesthetic manifestation of their critique of a contemporary society whose progress had been halted by Catholic obscurantism. They were fully futuristic in their outlook. (Early) romanticism on the other hand served to legitimize the nation building processes of the epoch and to fill the cultural content of the emerging imagined communities.

Ol' Willy

We shan't forget that, essentially, Renaissance was triggered by the Byzantine refugees, who flee their homeland after it being ravaged by dirty Osmans. And while Roman and Greek heritage was half-forgotten/scorned by the Church, Byzantines brought it with them - the cultural line was never broken in the East.

Ol' Willy

So yes, while European Renaissance was all about progress, it had the base and inspiration from the Antiquity.

Heroic Liberator

Yes and no. It had inspired the artistic currents of the Renaissance, but it was detached from its overall culture. There is no revived tradition (which still persisted through the assimilated elements of Pagan folk practices and the structural influences of the pre-Christian Roman priesthood on the Catholic Church), but rather the contestation of contemporary tradition which in the arts drew parallels to paganism.

Ol' Willy

Well, as someone with lawyer degree I look at this situation from the legal standpoint; while Roman Law never entirely disappeared from Europe, it was during the Renaissance when it started to influence and shape legal systems of most European countries to a greatest degree. Not qualified as much to talk about the art, though.

Ol' Willy

I don't work as a lawyer, BTW, that's a common thing in Russia

Heroic Liberator

Didn't have the required bribe money that serves as a prerequisite for entering public lawyership?

Ol' Willy

True. No money, no connections - no future. I graduated together with my mate: he pursues his career, changed like five jobs (all with the legal profile, most of them public ones), now works in a prestigious Moscow University, legal dpt. Makes as much as me, while I work as CNC operator.

Verylittlefishes

Прохладная история, товарищ Вилли!

Üstad

" That wasn't nostalgia, but simply the fetishization of classical antiquity."

Rather than that it was revival contarary to bastardization done by the feeble minded.

Üstad

"We shan't forget that, essentially, Renaissance was triggered by the Byzantine refugees..."

Rennessaince was not "triggered" such claim is simply absurd and overly simplistic. With emerge of merchant states, city states, knowledge being passed over via war (crusades to east etc.) it was result of long process, I daresay it was slowly emerging since 1300's, I have to emphasize the word slowly.

Verylittlefishes

If only we could have some web space to really discuss it

Heroic Liberator

There was no revival of the zeitgeist of antiquity, Üstad. They simply borrowed and/or were inspired by some aspects of that time (e.g. Roman law as Ol' Willy rightly mentioned), but for the most part it was a current within the arts which glorified that age in light of the perceived decline which had subsequently occurred due to the fall of the W. Empire and the (negative) cultural influences of the C. Church.

Verylittlefishes

There was a big project in Venice by Aldus the publisher in 15 c. to recover, edit (he had The Erasmus onboard) and reissue all key Greek and Roman writings. I think this had a big and profound effect on culture that followed.

Üstad

There is a reason why we call it revival not imitation Magnat. It doesn't have to complete by to book copy of greco-roman antiquity, in fact it better this way. Of course they will revive it according to how they perceive it and won't be completely independent from current era they were living.

Heroic Liberator

There is no revival of the zeitgeist of antiquity. It is exactly imitation, centered particularly on the visual arts. The Renaissance revived antiquity as much as Fascist Italy did through its architectural neoclassicist projects, its portrayal of Roman antiquity in history & propaganda and its identification with the Roman past (e.g. Mare Nostrum, invasion of Abyssinia framed as a civilizing mission and so on).

Verylittlefishes

Guys who took revival too seriously and questioned the dogma itself (Bruno, della Mirandola) didn't end well.

Üstad

Well rennessaince did not really imitate old rome. In fact rennesaince occurred when Italian was started to used as literary language. The movement mobilised all classes give birth to scientists and free thinkers. Meanwhile fascist Italy was merely in delusion of grandeur. The rulers of facist Italy barely know antiquity if they knew it at all.