Review RPG Dot reviews Avernum 4

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Avernum 4; Spiderweb Software

<a href=http://www.rpgdot.com>RPG Dot</a> has posted a <a href=http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=1229>review</a> of <a href=http://www.avernum.com/avernum4/index.html>Avernum 4</a>, giving it 7/10:
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<blockquote>That's not to say the story and dialogue are unimportant by any means. Jeff Vogel is a gifted storyteller and although the plot of Avernum 4 is fairly straightforward, it is well written and quite engrossing after a (very) slow start. There are limited opportunities to really develop memorable NPCs but encounters are always accompanied by plenty of descriptive text that add atmosphere and dialogue with personality that lifts Avernum 4 beyond mere dungeon-crawler to an expansive adventure. The role of dialogue, however, is clearly to develop the story and add flavour rather than offer real choices or branches in the plot.
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Ultimately, the combat is the crux of the gameplay. Avernum 4 uses a simple but solid turn-based model with a movement grid, action points and attack order based on speed (which is determined by several factors). Each round, characters get a default base of eight action points to attack with a melee or ranged weapon, cast a spell, move, use items or some combination.
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While the system is very simple - there is only a single melee attack, for example - the range of options with an effective party is reasonably satisfying. At its best, such as storming a keep with archers at the embattlements to engage mixed enemies within, combat is quite exciting. Unfortunately, it can get tedious against the random single encounters across the map - the classic repetitive rat (or the myriad of chitrachs in the Eastern Gallery, for example). This can be somewhat mitigated with the Natural Lore skill, which can calm some monsters, but remains an issue. As the game progresses, some special (and undocumented) skills can open up (such as Parry or Quick Attack) and these certainly add extra depth to the character development but being passive skills, they don't add any additional interactive options to combat encounters.</blockquote>The combat system can definitely use some options.
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[Fodel]

There are limited opportunities to really develop memorable NPCs but encounters are always accompanied by plenty of descriptive text that add atmosphere and dialogue with personality that lifts Avernum 4 beyond mere dungeon-crawler to an expansive adventure.

Avernum4 (only play the demo) as all the Avernums games are excelent dungeon crawler and very fun, but the "roleplay" factor is out, not choices, even Oblivion or Morrowind are more crpgs.

Avernum 4 is great value with many hours of gameplay and offers a fine adventure in a well-realised world.

Agree , but waiting for Geneforge4. :D

 

[flushfire]

Avernum4 (only play the demo) as all the Avernums games are excelent dungeon crawler and very fun, but the "roleplay" factor is out, not choices, even Oblivion or Morrowind are more crpgs.

I can't believe someone actually said that.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

That's Fodel for you. Everything you can't believe someone can say, he eventually will.

 

[bryce777]

That's Fodel for you. Everything you can't believe someone can say, he eventually will.

Even though I liked geneforge I somewhat, the idiot things he says make me want to not try his other games.

 

[Twinfalls]

time to hobble out for a new lens prescription, brycey

 

[Azael]

That's the biggest problem with Vogel's games. They have a heavy emphasis on combat, but the combat isn't very good. The Avernum games are a little better than the Geneforge series, but the lack of options for non-spellcasters is just pitiful.

 

[elander_]

A good crpg shouldn't be made all around a story but a world seting with many stories and many possibilities to experience the world depending on the chaaracter the player picks. This said and this is what i believe i can't possibly find A4 much interesting from a rp perspective.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

That's the biggest problem with Vogel's games. They have a heavy emphasis on combat, but the combat isn't very good. The Avernum games are a little better than the Geneforge series, but the lack of options for non-spellcasters is just pitiful.

Another problem, at least to my tastes, is that (1) casting powerup spells before battle is hugely important, (2) casting those spells takes a more than trivial amount of time, and (3) resting has no real cost (with the exception of A3?), meaning that you should always cast those spells with the expectation of resting when you need to replenish magic. I would say some nontrivial amount of my playtime (2%?) was spent casting bless, haste, armor, etc. before every battle. The more important combat became, the more time I had to spend casting those damned spells.

 

[Fodel]

Avernum4 (only play the demo) as all the Avernums games are excelent dungeon crawler and very fun, but the "roleplay" factor is out, not choices, even Oblivion or Morrowind are more crpgs.

I can't believe someone actually said that.

Well, ¿can you tell me any choice, any roleplay decision in Avernun 2 or in Avernum 4 demo? , in Morrowind or in Oblivion you choice the factions, you choice be a vampire or the end of any quests, of course are very poor choices, but are choices.

 

[flushfire]

Another problem, at least to my tastes, is that (1) casting powerup spells before battle is hugely important, (2) casting those spells takes a more than trivial amount of time, and (3) resting has no real cost (with the exception of A3?), meaning that you should always cast those spells with the expectation of resting when you need to replenish magic. I would say some nontrivial amount of my playtime (2%?) was spent casting bless, haste, armor, etc. before every battle. The more important combat became, the more time I had to spend casting those damned spells.

Agreed. But then later in the game you'll have access to higher levels of those spells - buff the entire party, last longer etc, making the buffing process easier. I never really had any problems with buffing, compared to most MMOs the buffs in any spidweb rpg are quite forgiving. Imagine having f1-f10 as shortcuts just for buffing spells and having to cast them every 10 seconds or so.

 

[bryce777]

time to hobble out for a new lens prescription, brycey

Doh...fodel...vogel. I actually thought he made a typo.

 

[flushfire]

Well, ¿can you tell me any choice, any roleplay decision in Avernun 2 or in Avernum 4 demo? , in Morrowind or in Oblivion you choice the factions, you choice be a vampire or the end of any quests, of course are very poor choices, but are choices.

Well, for one in A4 you can choose if you want to kill the goblin leader (first main quest) or to let him go. The game even gives you a choice on how to reach him, either through stealth or muscle. Poor choices, but are choices.

The actual "roleplay factor" of any RPG depends on the player himself, not just on what the game tells you what or what you can't do. I mean, what would Dungeon Master become then, if you judge its "roleplay factor" based on what choices the game gives you (aside from character generation)?

That being said I don't have anything against any Elder Scrolls game, I think they're great and Im not really picky when it comes to RPGs (very little choices anyway), but I won't say Avernum's "roleplay factor" isn't there just because you can't choose how every quest would end.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

Agreed. But then later in the game you'll have access to higher levels of those spells - buff the entire party, last longer etc, making the buffing process easier. I never really had any problems with buffing, compared to most MMOs the buffs in any spidweb rpg are quite forgiving. Imagine having f1-f10 as shortcuts just for buffing spells and having to cast them every 10 seconds or so.

Never played an MMORPG (other than MUDs, back in the day). You're right, of course, that the whole power-up issue is pretty endemic to the genre. I always found it somewhat more annoying in Spiderweb games, though. I'm not sure why that is (maybe because the spell durations are so short?).

 

[flushfire]

A good crpg shouldn't be made all around a story but a world seting with many stories and many possibilities to experience the world depending on the chaaracter the player picks. This said and this is what i believe i can't possibly find A4 much interesting from a rp perspective.

Betrayal at Krondor is a very good example of how an RPG could be great even when made around a story, and no actual character choice. Try it, if you haven't yet.

 

[Volourn]

"Well, for one in A4 you can choose if you want to kill the goblin leader (first main quest) or to let him go."

Woah. That's deep. This explains why the Spiderweb games are so popular amongst the 'role-playing elite' of the Codex with role-playing like that.

WOWSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:

 

[flushfire]

"Well, for one in A4 you can choose if you want to kill the goblin leader (first main quest) or to let him go."

Woah. That's deep. This explains why the Spiderweb games are so popular amongst the 'role-playing elite' of the Codex with role-playing like that.

WOWSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:

Yes, I know. But Fodel's question is that of choice, not of depth.

I've yet to see a better game made by you.

 

[sheek]

Just because I can't make a better game (I'm not a programmer) doesn't mean his game is any good. I have seen it and it looks ugly and boring (and overpriced).

 

[flushfire]

I have seen it and it looks ugly and boring...

Of course, graphics first before anything else. That's really what RPGs are all about. The looks.

 

[sheek]

I have seen it and it looks ugly and boring...

Of course, graphics first before anything else. That's really what RPGs are all about. The looks.

Go play Akalabeth then.

Making a game look appealing and easy to use is as much game design as the mechanics or story. I think we should expect some progress in that department since the 1980's.

 

[LlamaGod]

I have seen it and it looks ugly and boring...

Of course, graphics first before anything else. That's really what RPGs are all about. The looks.

Go play Akalabeth then.

Making a game look appealing and easy to use is as much game design as the mechanics or story. I think we should expect some progress in that department since the 1980's.

lets just ignore gameplay progress, progress is defined by how pretty it is!!!

 

[sheek]

lets just ignore gameplay progress, progress is defined by how pretty it is!!!

No.

I said progress is defined by a bunch of different factors: gameplay is one, the graphical interface is another.

And I'm not dismissing Avernum just because of graphics, it also looks boring.

 

[elander_]

Betrayal at Krondor is a very good example of how an RPG could be great even when made around a story, and no actual character choice. Try it, if you haven't yet.

I did it. It's a great game and a very well writen plot. I had a lot of fun playing ti but if i was looking for a crpg i would not pick up that game. Anyone can make a game, put some stats on it and call it an crpg but i think we need to be more refined to what we call a crpg otherwise even Doom3 can be tagged as a crpg. It's ridicule but it's how games are evaluated. It's more about marketing (because puting rpg in the game sells and is a synonim of more deep and quality than a simple action game) than making an inteligent classification system.

 

[Fodel]

Well, for one in A4 you can choose if you want to kill the goblin leader (first main quest) or to let him go. The game even gives you a choice on how to reach him, either through stealth or muscle. Poor choices, but are choices.

Yes, I forgot the quest , is a choice, poor, irrelevant, no-stats/skills based, but a choice :D , the only choice in the demo, i think

The actual "roleplay factor" of any RPG depends on the player himself

¡¡¡ Morrowind ¡¡¡ :twisted:

not just on what the game tells you what or what you can't do.

In Geneforge 2 you decide what you do :D

what would Dungeon Master become then, if you judge its "roleplay factor" based on what choices the game gives you (aside from character generation)?

A dungeon crawler, ergo action games with stats and loot.

And I'm not dismissing Avernum just because of graphics, it also looks boring.

If you like TB combat with plot,you like Avermum games.

 

[Sarvis]

I've gotta agree that the problem with avernum games is the combat.

The thing is, it's usually fun at first when you're struggling in every combat, but towards the end of the game it always turns into a simple process of Cast Buffs, Enter Fight, Cast Big Damage Spell, repeat.

I've never finished an Avernum because about 3/4 through the game I just get bored with the fights.