Review 1UP insists that NWN2 is crap

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Neverwinter Nights 2; Obsidian Entertainment

The third chapter in a new internet drama is now available:
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<a href=http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15987>Chapter 1</a>: 1UP posts a really stupid NWN2 review that has nothing to do with the game, giving it 5/10.
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<a href=http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=7589456&publicUserId=5380367>Chapter 2</a>: Jeff Green posts an apology, but says that he stands by the reviewer completely, which doesn't make a lot of sense.
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<a href=http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3155234>Chapter 3</a>: Jeff Green writes a review himself, giving the game 6/10 and stating that the game is unplayable, unfinished, and hardly enjoyable in general.
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<blockquote>All of this is great -- and if the review ended here, we could all sing "Kumbaya" together in happy harmony. But the sad truth is that NWN2 shipped in a pretty messy state, and even after a couple patches (as of this writing), the biggest problems remain. In general, and depending on your system and your tolerance, you're going to spend a lot of time upfront basically doing the job the developers should have done before shipping the game: fixing the weak A.I., futzing around with the graphics options and camera controls, and resetting basic gameplay options until the thing is playable. And good luck with all of that, because not all of it is easily done (or even possible).
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The net result of all of this -- performance, camera, A.I., interface -- severely sours the experience and tests the patience of those who simply want to boot the game and play. Who wants to work this hard to have fun? </blockquote>Looks like Jeff wrote a review to support the magazine's previous position and prove that the game is crappy as 1UP claimed originally. I give Jeff Green's journalistic integrity 6/10 and wish him luck with his new magazine.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgwatch.com">RPG Watch</A>

 

[Jaesun]

So 1UP gives Oblivion a 9 out of 10. Yet NWN2 gets a 6 out of 10?

Thankfully 1UP knows how to rate RPG's accurately.

 

[Vault Dweller]

That's because Oblivion's AI, featuring people staring at walls all day, overall performance, and interface were so amazing and flawless, and didn't require any tweaking at all.

 

[ixg]

Those were features in Oblivion, not flaws.

 

[Kraszu]

Also LOD makes you want to explore more, you go just for the fun of seeing what plants are 10m from you.

 

[suibhne]

Sad to say, 1up has become a joke. The intellectual bankruptcy of their vaunted new scale ("But...this one goes to 10") was clearly demonstrated by their Gears of War review (10/10 - despite problems), and this review is a nearly as bad as the original NWN2 hack-job. At least the original reviewer actually seemed to have played the game; this time around, the head honcho of 1up apparently couldn't be bothered.

What baffles me is the fact that he highly praises much of the game, then knocks off 40% (apparently) for technical problems. Some of those are pretty big, sure, and I've been pretty frustrated as well - but 40% of the total grade? And he didn't even bother to review the toolset, despite billing it as possibly the most important element of the original NWN.

Gosh.

 

[aries202]

HI

It seems like Jeff Green just doesn't like D&D games or the whole D&D concept. This is, of course, fair.

I say this because of his mentioning of 'wonkey geekfest that is D&D' and something about the rules which only the most dieharded D&D fans can follow.

I really don't think that 1UP nor Jeff Green likes
the D&D genre nor likes following rules, nor likes
that you actaully have to to use your brains to get ahead in the game, NWN2. This is why Oblivion got a
9/10 score, imo, since in Oblivion, you can do pretty much what you llke.

It is also fair enough to give a game not finished a bit lower score than a game which is finished. IIRC; Oblivion wasn't finished either when it was released way back in march 2006 - and it only got it latest patches. Obsidian did make 2 or 3 patches to correct
the failings, flaws and mistakes in this game - 14 days after the game's release.

Jeff Green (and 1up) seems to think that an RPG should be as easily played as Oblivion e.g. However,
a traditional RPG like NWN2 is supposed to be hard to play as it is the player's stats, skills and such which determines the outcome of say combat, dialoque etc.

aries202

 

[The Vanished One]

Maybe what mr. Green says is true, but I won't call that a review. It tells hardly anything of what it's supposed to be in a review (first of all a serious analysis of graphics, sound and gameplay). You can't say "this game sucks" and pretend this is a review.

btw, while I was reading the "review", the ad banners in the article showed the advertisement for... NWN 2

 

[cutterjohn]

IMO if they TRULY wanted to handle this correctly they should have chosen to NOT review NWN2 after pulling the first "review".

From what I've read about it in other reviews and players comments here and elsewhere, it really sounds like a solid upper end, but not classic game. Maybe an 8/10 in numerical scoring.

Me: I'll wait and see what happens with support down the road before I bite on this one. It sounds like from Obsidian's own forums that they have some things that they'd like to put in a series of patches, but it also sounds like there may be some question as to whether or not there will be any real efforts put into patches. i.e. reading between the lines it sounds like Atari's financial solvency may be a problem as it really reads like a we'd like to do this, but we can't/won't if we can't/won't be paid for it.

 

[aries202]

HI

This new review, I agree, isn't really a review.
It is more of an opinion about the game.

A review should, imo, analyze the graphics, the gameplay, the story, the sound/music and the User Interface - and then draw a final conclusion about the game.

It is OK to be against heavliy rules influenced games, but then again, the D&D setting requires NWN2 to be such a game.

aries202

 

[MountainWest]

performance - haven't had any problems with that. Though I've never heard my graphics card sound as horrible as during this game. Is it a OMG I can't play at teh max-problem?

camera - Minor hangups following area-transitions. No problem. Though I'm playing exclusively Baldurs Gate-style and not with WASD, the MMORPG-way.

A.I. - Using puppet mode, as I'm sure most people who are interested in this game are. A "Select all"-button would have been nice.

interface - What's wrong with it? It does its job as far I'm concerned.

I have a lot of other problems with NWN2 that completely overshadows those above, mainly the boring, easy-as-hell combat and the many battle-your-way-from-one-end-of-the-area-to-the-other kind of quests.

 

[Faustus]

While he didn't delve into a detailed critique of the game, I have to agree with the complaints he mentioned. The story is engaging but actually playing it has been painful for all the reasons he talks about. I think he is right on about those.

 

[RadioGnome Invisible]

performance - haven't had any problems with that. Though I've never heard my graphics card sound as horrible as during this game. Is it a OMG I can't play at teh max-problem?

Nope, more likely "Why the fuck does it often drops to 20 fps at medium settings on high-end hardware with THAT mediocre graphics?"

And yes, FPS often goes below acceptable (~15-20) on X1950XTX, even with point lights and soft shadows turned off. Usually in "surface" locations, dungeons work OK. Either it's even less optimized than G3, or they wasted processing power on something i can't see.

 

[The Vanished One]

... it's even less optimized than G3...

I can't believe there can be a game less optimized than Gothic 3. Are developers programming games only on workstation whitout caring for all the poor people who can't go in the future to buy a better PC?

 

[MountainWest]

Yea, you might be right - it does slow down in some surface areas; the docks district and West harbour, are places I come to think of now. Thought it would speed up if I bothered to lower the settings (playing at max except shadows... I think), but I haven't tried. Having played on a 8 year old computer up until a couple of months ago have made me immune to bad performance, I guess.

 

[Volourn]

They should have never pulled the first review. But, whining fanboys got what they want. 1up better hold their ground on this one.

 

[tetsuo]

performance - haven't had any problems with that. Though I've never heard my graphics card sound as horrible as during this game. Is it a OMG I can't play at teh max-problem?

Nope, more likely "Why the fuck does it often drops to 20 fps at medium settings on high-end hardware with THAT mediocre graphics?"

And yes, FPS often goes below acceptable (~15-20) on X1950XTX, even with point lights and soft shadows turned off. Usually in "surface" locations, dungeons work OK. Either it's even less optimized than G3, or they wasted processing power on something i can't see.

well im playing on a xp2400,1gb ram ,6600gt plays fine on mostly high settings with no shadows or refections,iit does slow down in some areas like the docks but most of the game plays fine , gothic 3 on the other hand stutters so bad on my sys on every res and even the lowest settings its just not playable for me, g3 has the worst optimized engine ever.

 

[roguefrog]

Still waiting on The Codex hivemind opinion on NWN2.

 

[Baphomet]

Still waiting on The Codex hivemind opinion on NWN2.

I think it goes like this.

It's too linear, but since it's based on D&D rules, we will reluctantly accept it as an RPG. The only thing worse than this game are the reviews.

 

[Greatatlantic]

Still waiting on The Codex hivemind opinion on NWN2.

My opinion is: its an RPG with honest to goodness choice and consequences... occasionally. To Linear through out most of the game. Beats the pants out of the original. Heck, its the only vrai RPG released this year, if your system can run it, get it.

 

[Solaris]

Although it pains me to say it, NWN2 & Gothic 3 are both steaming piles shit, in terms of programming.

I can't believe that some here, the ones irked by Bethesda's 'first person shooter' rpg have the cheek to think somehow the above mentioned games are automatically better since they are closer to being true rpgs......a shit game is still a shit game.

As for 1up's latest NWN2 review....the author may be biased against D&D rules but he is correct about other things. The sloppy programming, shitty AI etc...in my mind it deserves a 6/10 as well, even if he was marking it with a different bias to me. Yes, we are all biased. Nobody on this planet is without bias of some sort.....mine is a hatred for shitty programming/rushed games.

I'm sick to fucking death of having to wait months to play a game properly after loads of patches. By then NWN2 might be worth an 8, IF I was a new purchaser who didn't have to go through all that pay to play beta testing shit.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Still waiting on The Codex hivemind opinion on NWN2.

Much like Gothic 3, it sounds like shit that might be salvaged with some massive patching. Than again the same thing could be said about Oblivion. If you're an eternal optimist than keep your head up because Obsidian and PB seem to actually want to patch the game.

 

[Zomg]

I don't see what's wrong with NWN2 that a patch will fix. It needs some quality of life infrastructure mods pretty badly, like abstracted looting, a shared inventory, etc. but other than that the serious flaws are designed in or intractable.

I don't really care about linearity in the usual sense, so meh.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

It's too linear, but since it's based on D&D rules, we will reluctantly accept it as an RPG. The only thing worse than this game are the reviews.

Sadly, it looks like that's exactly what's going to happen. D&D RULEZ GUYS OMFG! I'm hearing it's as linear as crap and has no real choice. What's left to like about this game?

 

[baelstren]

performance - haven't had any problems with that. Though I've never heard my graphics card sound as horrible as during this game. Is it a OMG I can't play at teh max-problem?

Nope, more likely "Why the fuck does it often drops to 20 fps at medium settings on high-end hardware with THAT mediocre graphics?"

And yes, FPS often goes below acceptable (~15-20) on X1950XTX, even with point lights and soft shadows turned off. Usually in "surface" locations, dungeons work OK. Either it's even less optimized than G3, or they wasted processing power on something i can't see.

I get the same FPS drop* w/ a CrossFire rig, usually in transitions between settings. Alt-Tab "fixes" the problem. This will probably be fixed in a patch or two. Otherwise, playing at 1680x1050, I haven't seen FPS drop below 35, and it goes as high as 85. There are some rough edges, but I wouldn't call performance crappy.

* It's as if vsync gets enabled somehow during transitions/cutscenes/etc. even though it is forced off in the driver.