Review Pants stained over SoU at RPGFan

[Spazmo]

Tags: Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide

<a href="www.rpgfan.com">RPGFan</a> has posted a gushing review of the <a href="nwn.bioware.com">Neverwinter Nights</a> expansion pack, <a href="http://nwn.bioware.com/shadows/">Shadows of Undrentide</a>. They gave it a whopping 96%.
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<blockquote>It begins shortly after the onset of the plague in Neverwinter and does not cross-over with its story in any way. The plot instead focuses on the apprentices of a dwarven sorcerer named Drogan. His star pupil, you, is entrusted to find a set of artifacts that were stolen after an attack on your master's house. This journey leads you to many different discoveries which eventually culminate into the standard "save the world" climax.</blockquote>
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A dwarven sorcerer? Hey, BioWare, there's a fine line between non-standard characters and just plain stupid combinations. My D&D geek heart weeps.
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[Volourn]

How is that 'stupid"? Because it's not traditional? Man, I hate to say it; but when 3E first came out; I sounded just like you. Stop living in the past.

 

[Spazmo]

It's 'stupid' because dwarves really, really hate arcane magic. Any dwarf practitioner of the arcane arts is an outcast from dwarven society. And somehow, I don't see BioWare writing a dwarven sorcerer just because it'd make a complex character.

 

[Volourn]

Once again, you are living in the past. And, not *all* dwarves hate magic. Geez.. Stereotypes never die, it seems.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I agree, past is past, lets spice it up a bit, add the element of surprise, etc. How about a thong-wearing dwarven sorcerer with a blowgun?

Seriously though, these things are not arbitrary that can easily change or evolve in time. Dwarven society in D&D is well written and explained. Like Spazmo said they don't practice magic not "just because", but because it does not fit into their way of life. Their constitution, their habits, crafts, etc - they never needed magic to protect themselves or change the world around them. Of course, there could be outcasts, exceptions, but isn't one Drizzt enough?

 

[Volourn]

Please. Don't be silly now. If youa ctually read dnd resources; a lot of the younger dwarves and the younger dwarven gods are pushing for the dwarven race to adapt to the changing world; and the domiantion of humans. The older dwarves, and the ancient dwarven gods are still stuck in their old ways. It's time for the yonger generation of dwarves to unite, and seek out the future!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Give me a good reason why a dwarf would seek to become a wizard? Adapting = good, dominate humans = very good, trim the beard = not a bad idea , but magic does not really fit, imo. I can see how young ones would not be satisfied with the current setup, and some of them would want to change things, but they wouldn't need magic for that. If anything, switching from something they are good at to something their enemy had lifetimes of practicing and perfecting would put them at a severe disadvantage right away.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Drogan ain't exactly young. He's a gray-haired, retired adventurer, which likely means he learned magic over 100 years ago. I thought he was a wizard, though.

Although what really bugs me is the half-orc sorcerer. A dwarven rogue/cleric I can see, even if it makes her a bit of an outcast, but you get the feeling that they just randomly threw weird (and often pointless) combinations together because they think it's kewl. Carrying on the tradition of elven paladins with implants, I guess.

 

[Volourn]

Vault, because the young dwarves look at what humans have accomplished, and see they can improve their lives. Using magic is just one way to chnage this. Remember, there are at least one or two dwarven gods in the Dwraven Pantehon in dnd that lingered around the magic loop.

Walks, good point about Drogan's age. That can be explained by perhaps he wans't always an an adventurer. Perhaps, through the years he got to know wizards and started trusting them. Remember, by default, adventurers are a rare breed. After all, it is extremely rare to see a dwarf be a member of the ahrpers. Too bad they didn't really delve into his history to explain. The wya they set it up now; it's easy to complain about it as we aren't shown *why* or *how Drogan became a mage.

As for the avrious joinable npcs. I agree. They did seem to just pick odd combiantions just for the sake of it. Not that the npcs ae bad as I find they were well done for the most part. Just need to improve the AI some more. Then again, we've alreayd got some good news for HOTU in that regard.

 

[Voss]

Well, a dwarf sorcerer is stupid because they have a penalty to charisma...and since it is the prime stat for a sorcerer, it is a bad idea.

However, the reviewer happens to be wrong.
Drogan is a cleric/wizard...or at least referred to that way in the module.

 

[Volourn]

What? Dwraven sorcerors work fine. All that means you have a max charisma of 16 at creation which still isn't bad.

Drogan was a cleric? I missed that part... Hmmm..

 

[Jed]

What? Dwraven sorcerors work fine. All that means you have a max charisma of 16 at creation which still isn't bad. Drogan was a cleric? I missed that part... Hmmm..

The problem I have with all of this stuff is that once every character is an exception to the rule, what does that leave for game world flavor? In the FR, Dwarves are a very conservative race, and suddenly having them all be magic users seems a little silly. But perhaps this is a problem with the direction WotC has been taking the FR: in order to move units, it seems the FR is becoming all things to all people, which in the end will make it not mean much to much of anyone.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must return to finishing the creation of my new character: a Chaotic-Good Beholder Monk named Zappy the Wanderer...

 

[Volourn]

LOL I agree. I'm not saying dwarven wizards should be common place. That is bloring. In fact, that's the biggest problem with our friend Drizzt. He's "template" has been so over-used that it ruins a lot of the character's special qualities when every second drow you run into just happens to be a Drizzt wannabe. *yawn*

 

[Voss]

What? Dwraven sorcerors work fine. All that means you have a max charisma of 16 at creation which still isn't bad.

Drogan was a cleric? I missed that part... Hmmm..

Depends on how you're group does ability scores. I prefer the 25 weighted point buy.
Getting a 16 CHR with that kinda kicks you in the ass. 18 of 25 pts. Just enough to make 3 more scores average with no penalty. with a slight con bonus which will take it to average as well, or bump up a slight bonus. Huzzah.

Ok, it can work, but it is a suboptimal choice. And I always try to find a reason for characters to end up the way they are... and a starting character has a small enough chance of surviving without being handicapped to begin with.

The evil Drizzt. Actually my biggest problem with that is the drow have been over used to the point of being generic. They were interesting and scary villains at one point. Now... Bleh. Bland and generic evil with a twist of S&M. Oh joy. Fear the drow, for they are the New Vampire. Of course, as IWD2 taught us, with the ECL rules, a drow of the same level as someone else is just going to get smacked around rather severely.

 

[axel]

In Arcanum, Jormund, the wizard dwarf you find in Quintarra, was pretty cool.

 

[Anonymous]

When I DM and someone brings something crazy like a Dwarven Wizard to the table, I make them come up with a convincing backstory and roleplay with it, personally, I think all things are possible, some things do need a strong explaination, though (Elven Berserkers, Lawful Good Necromancer,Dwarven spellcaster, and so on).

 

[Volourn]

Llama is right here. This basically how I do it as well...

P.S. WOW! Completely different feel than our last posts,Llama. :wink: