Interview MotB interview at GameBanshee

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Neverwinter Nights 2; Obsidian Entertainment

<a href=http://www.gamebanshee.com>GameBanshee</a> has posted an <a href=http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/maskofthebetrayer2-1.php>interesting interview</a> with Obsidian's Kevin Saunders, MotB lead designer.
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<blockquote><b>The expansion focuses more on an inward story combined with cosmological elements than on any of the classic down-to-earth approaches of RPG storytelling. Why did you choose this route?</b>
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It was the type of story we wanted to tell. NWN2 had a classic fantasy RPG story and we didn't want to do that again. As an expansion, we felt we could try something different and gamble a bit with the story. The majority of people who buy an expansion for a game like NWN2 are pretty hard core gamers and role-players and we thought they'd appreciate an atypical story. </blockquote>Thanks, Kevin.
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<blockquote><b>The expansion has been praised for its dialogue, story, and NPCs, but somewhat criticized for bugs and gameplay elements like the camera, UI, and spirit meter. How do you feel about such criticism?</b>
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All opinions are valid when it comes to something like game design. Our goal is to entertain the player, so when someone dislikes an aspect of the game, we've disappointed that person in that regard. I'll briefly discuss each of the elements you mention separately.
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With regard to the spirit meter, I think the situation is slightly more complicated. <u>I'm not sure that the system itself was flawed, but rather our presentation of it. For example, some reviews have mentioned that the "evil" path is inferior to the "good" one.</u> But there are actually some huge game play benefits you gain by succumbing to the spirit hunger. You gain new combat abilities as your craving increases and you also acquire unique essences that can be used to create artifacts or add very powerful enchantments to your existing items. <u>So I think where we could have improved the spirit-eater implementation was to better train the player in how the system works and what the trade-offs were</u>.</blockquote>Thanks a lot, media assholes. Now we'll get games that clearly explain and spell out each choice and benefits, because god forbid I try something and see what happens.
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<blockquote>Now back to your original question: how do I feel about the criticism? Terrible. The team did a fantastic job creating Mask of the Betrayer and, because of a couple specific decisions, they aren't receiving the praise they deserve for their incredible work over the past year. </blockquote>We feel your pain, Kevin, we really do.
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Good interview.
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[Volourn]

Your fanboyism is embarassing. And, the 180 you've pulled over Obsidian is hilarious as well.

Again, it should be noted, MOTB is a good game; but it is no 'masterpiece', and it's FAR from perfect.

 

[Kraszu]

Thanks a lot, media assholes. Now we'll get games that clearly explain and spell out each choice and benefits, because god forbid I try something and see what happens.

I am waiting for my extreme PC so I didn't yet play, but some clues or description is important to make decision based on that. For example I would like specific descriptions for every statistic that I can choose personally, otherwise planing can be limited. I like to plan and see haw it worked not make decision "randomly" and watch effect.

 

[Brother None]

I was just about to PM you about this interview, 'coz I was pretty proud about the kind of questions I asked and happy with answers Kevin gave. Thought you'd like it.

Yeah, I was a bit "I feel your pain"-ish too when I read how Kevin felt about the ratings. It's typical, especially when you consider how inconsistent the media tends to be with its ratings. How can you declare it better than NWN2 and then give it a lower rating in one breath?

 

[Saxon1974]

I liked MOTB quite a bit, not as much as VD and I would not say "Masterpiece", but enjoyed playing it and I couldnt get through half of NWN2.

Interesting interview. I really really really hate the whole "You have to please everybody" attitude. Why won't dev's say things like "We wanted people to figure it out for themselves, we like people to think and discover on their own, if they don't like that type of game they should probably play something else".

Games that lead me around are extemely boring to me. Maybe this fits in with those who watch a TON of TV? It's kind of the same where you can just veg out and watch what they give you.

 

[Chefe]

I like to plan and see haw it worked not make decision "randomly" and watch effect.

This is 90% of the reason I hate modern games. I like to experiment. They discourage experimentation by not only laying down in specific in-game detail, but also punishing you if you do decide to experiment (either by making your character extremely underpowered, forcing the entire game world against you, etc.). You have to do planning before you even set down and play the game (which, ironically, is more "fun" than actually playing the piece of shit).

I like old games because they encourage trying things out and seeing what happens. That's where most of the fun lies. I don't want people to tell me where the glass ceiling is, then tell me exactly how to touch it.

I don't like nor own NWN2, but this game is looking better and better the more I hear about how much people say it sucks.

 

[Starwars]

The game does a decent enough job to tell you what the spirit-meter does, as well as your abilities. I think many people did not bother to read the feat descriptions.
I really wouldn't like it if there was "training" for the spirit-meter. I'm not opposed to tutorials in general, but having the game teach you how to deal with a curse such as the spiriteater thing would seem extremely awkward. There should be some "stumbling in the dark" because the curse is not something that should be easily controllable from the get-go.

But, as mentioned above, I'm unhappy with our review scores. It's frustrating to see a number of reviews saying how MotB is a big improvement over NWN2 and then giving MotB a lower score. An 81% average isn't bad, but I really thought we'd be closer to 90%. So I'm disappointed in myself for not getting the team the recognition and success they deserve.

I think that's a bit backwards from Kevin. Kevin should not be disappointed in himself when it's gaming reviews that are inconsistant (which he himself recognizes here, since most reviews state that MotB is better than NWN2 but still gives a lower score).

I've said this before, but if I were to score MotB on my personal scale it would probably be somewhere between 80-90/100 (which is a great score). But in light of how 'professional' reviewers score their games, I think 80 is much to low.

Obsidian should be damn proud of this game, and I hope it sells well enough to warrant more expansions. The MotB team did a very good job I think.

 

[Kraszu]

I like old games because they encourage trying things out and seeing what happens. That's where most of the fun lies. I don't want people to tell me where the glass ceiling is.

To be more precise I like space rangers text adventures for example, decisions there were based on clues.

"We wanted people to figure it out for themselves, we like people to think and discover on their own

There is no figuring out in choosing patch when you can't know where it leads. I don't know if that is the case becouse I could not yet play the game.

 

[Volourn]

"Interesting interview. I really really really hate the whole "You have to please everybody" attitude. Why won't dev's say things like "We wanted people to figure it out for themselves, we like people to think and discover on their own, if they don't like that type of game they should probably play something else"."

Weird. Many devs say this. In fact, Dave Gaider at BIO says this ALL THE TIME.

 

[Kraszu]

I also like idea of predefined character that you can grow in any way, as that way you can get some clues about the world before you decide on what skill set to choose.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

Your fanboyism is embarassing. And, the 180 you've pulled over Obsidian is hilarious as well.

Again, it should be noted, MOTB is a good game; but it is no 'masterpiece', and it's FAR from perfect.

What is your major malfunction, asshole? Did your mommy not love you enough? Did your daddy touch you inappropriately? You sad, attention-seeking troll, you.

How immature of VD to change his opinion of Obsidian based on their latest work, indeed. He should be more consistent, like yourself perhaps -- jerking off to Bioware for years, while they release console turd after shiny fucking console turd.

A game doesn't need to be "perfect" to be a masterpiece, fucko -- just like you quite obviously don't need trisomy-21 to be a fucking retard. It's the best RPG in years, that's enough. Now kindly fuck off and die, bitch.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Volourn fuck off. You have no right to call VD a fanboy after all the bullshit you've been saying about Mass Effect. Stop the hypocrisy.

In response to the article, that last quote really got me. I hope they made it up in sales though. But maybe because of the poor reviews Atari will want a more action-oriented expansion next time.

 

[Brother None]

It's always funny to see how Volo can unhinge any thread on the Codex with ease.

The Perfect Troll(r)

 

[Chefe]

The last two posts made me lol

(before BN)

 

[fastpunk]

Now back to your original question: how do I feel about the criticism? Terrible. The team did a fantastic job creating Mask of the Betrayer and, because of a couple specific decisions, they aren't receiving the praise they deserve for their incredible work over the past year.

He really nailed it! I like how he was honest about it instead of going for a politically correct answer.

 

[MetalCraze]

"Interesting interview. I really really really hate the whole "You have to please everybody" attitude. Why won't dev's say things like "We wanted people to figure it out for themselves, we like people to think and discover on their own, if they don't like that type of game they should probably play something else"."

Weird. Many devs say this. In fact, Dave Gaider at BIO says this ALL THE TIME.

Unfortunately 'saying' is all that Dave Gaider can do.

The fact is - in a past 4 years bioware did nothing that came even near such non-clicheed games like KotOR2 and MotB.
So it's actually Obsidian - EA Edmonton 2:0.

We need to make more posts on Obs forums about how we support their hardcore ideas, otherwise VDs worries may be proven true (and cast a vote with the money of course)

 

[inwoker]

So it's actually Obsidian - EA Edmonton 2:0.

lol

We need to make more posts on Obs forums about how we support their hardcore ideas

No, I think devs read us here.

 

[dragonfk]

Obsidian guys dont forget we at RPGCodex LOVE YOU!!!

 

[ricolikesrice]

i d be interested in sales, if gamestar is accurate for once (cause in their reviews they for sure arent....) MOTB is selling pretty well in the U.S. ( 3rd place last week, 4th place this week), but then again charts are hardly reliable, are they ?

 

[Texas Red]

i d be interested in sales, if gamestar is accurate for once (cause in their reviews they for sure arent....) MOTB is selling pretty well in the U.S. ( 3rd place last week, 4th place this week), but then again charts are hardly reliable, are they ?

Is it for PC games only or for everything?

 

[MountainWest]

Anyone knows what kind of sales MotB has done? I've got this feeling it pretty much bombed, which would be a fucking RPG-tragedy since I believe Obsidian thought that, what the hell guys - let's see if those elitists bastards are right, eh? Lets make it and see if that if they come. But the costumers didn't come. The end.

Like Kevin said: they gambled, tested the market. If they lost we can be fucking sure they won't gamble again.

Edit: missed your post, rico.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Bear in mind Halo 3 came out recently, all of the casual market will have bought that which would have negatively affected game sales this month.

 

[Jora]

TToEE outsold the original NWN expansions but Atari chose to support NWN and axe the old-school module series. There's no knowing what will hapen next in the wacky world of game business.

 

[ricolikesrice]

...

pc games....

1. The Orange Box
2. Nancy Drew: Legend of Crystal Skull
3. The Sims 2: Bon Voyage
4. Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer
5. World of WarCraft: Burning Crusade
6. World of WarCraft
7. World of WarCraft: Battle Chest
8. Reel Deal Slots Ghost Town
9. The Sims 2 Deluxe
10. World in Conflict

last week it was:

1. Half-Life 2: The Orange Box
2. Nancy Drew: Legend of Crystal Skull
3. Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer
4. The Sims 2: Bon Voyage
5. Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
6. World of WarCraft: Burning Cruade
7. World of WarCraft
8. The Sims 2 Deluxe
9. World in Conflict
10. World of WarCraft: Battle Chest



no clue what those stats are based on though. (www.gamestar.de, shit site btw. but oh well you gotta read some comedy from time to time )


edit: btw i think in germany it bombed. never seen it in top 10 anywhere .

have some hope we ll redeem that shame by buying lots of witchers though.

 

[denizsi]

MOTB's sales wouldn't be an indicator of anything since it's just an expansion. If "Shivering Isles" was a real masterpiece with brilliant dialogue, brilliant quest designs, brilliant everything, ie. kind of things well beyond the comprehension levels of Oblivion audience, it would still sell well just because the main game had an established audience who are basically craving for more and are ready to grab anything Oblivion. Real test would be to put out a standalone game of that caliber. Perhaps the message here is "first conquer with mainstream hand-holding, and then expend to crush with mind-boggling".

<s>I'd expect Obsidian to put a quote from "Codex review" on their main page where they've put quotes from other, less-than-heartening reviews, especially in light of this interview.</s> It's there on a seperate entry.