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Mass Effect review madness

Elwro

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Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Tags: BioWare

I apologize for the extraordinary length of this newspost, but in order not to lose our status as the unquestioned bastion of gaming objectivity, we cannot let the plethora of positive Mass Effect reviews slip under our radar. First, let's find out about the supposedly very innovative dialogue system. Here's what has TeamXbox has to <A HREF="http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1437/Mass-Effect/p1/">say</A> about it:
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<blockquote>
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Right off the bat, you’ll notice that Mass Effect utilizes a unique dialogue system to progress the story. Essentially, you’ll begin speaking to another character, and a circular dialogue tree will appear at the bottom of the screen before they are finished talking. This allows you to queue up your responses so the conversation flows more realistically and naturally than in previous games. It’s a good system (...)
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</blockquote>
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So the only practical difference from the old, trusty dialogue tree is the fact you can queue up your responses? But enough with the negativity, let's see the high points of the game:
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<blockquote>
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(GameSpy) Mass Effect's greatest strength is the quality of the narrative. BioWare has a track record of producing amazingly engrossing storylines, but never before have you been presented with this level of meaningful interaction. <strong>You'll experience difficult and thought-provoking situations, including moral and ethical questions without a clear right or wrong answer. The Commander Shepard character is thus defined by player involvement, sublimely capturing the essence of role-playing.</strong>
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(GameSpot) (...) some characters have magic-like powers called biotics to mess with. It's worth noting, however, that these powers are focused on manipulation rather than direct offense. You can push enemies back with the throw power (awesome to behold at higher levels), lift them in the air, or create a vortex that sucks enemies toward it (another great use of Mass Effect's fun combat physics). Engineers have some nice abilities as well, such as the ability to sabotage weapons from a distance, which makes your enemy's weapon explode, or the power to turn robotic enemies against your own foes.
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(IGN) It's easy to ignore a paragraph of text asking you to fetch a random item, which is what most RPGs offer. Try passing up the offer to take up a quest when you have a voice filled with inflection asking for your assistance. Not just a voice; a being with real motivations that you can converse with, learn more about, and ultimately relate to. The voice acting is good, but the writing is even better. To think that this level of detail was put into some characters that you may never even interact with is mind-boggling.
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(Eurogamer) (...) each new planet offers its own specific visual treats - some of the artwork must surely [be] among the best we've been treated to. The facial detail is also, at times, absolutely wonderful, and adds no end to keeping you immersed during all the narrative segments. In terms of raw atmosphere, Mass Effect is a game that will really get under your skin - not just in the way that it creates a true sense of place to the locations, but in many other ways, notably the way the excellent soundtrack from Jack Wall adds greatly to the sense of drama as it unfolds. As with a lot of big-budget games of late, the efforts that have gone into making the whole thing as grand and cinematic as possible haven't gone to waste.
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</blockquote>
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Even though the reviewers have some reservations about certain game elements (and bugs), the whole message is overwhelmingly positive. Don't rush to the stores if you don't have an Xbox 360, as the PC port is unannounced yet.
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For a tiny nitpick, here are some shamelessly ripped out of context quotes about the dialogue:
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<blockquote>
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(Eurogamer) The new, refined dialogue system <strong>isn't quite the one that was described to the press during development</strong>, but nevertheless allows you to seamlessly and intuitively build up a conversation based on your overall attitude.
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(GameSpot) Oftentimes, multiple choices have the same result, a somewhat transparent trick that makes it seem as though you have a lot more impact on the conversation than you really do.
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(GameSpy) And <strong>as should be expected</strong>, different responses to the same issue will often lead to similar, if not exactly identical results.
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</blockquote>
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As should be expected? It is an unfortunate truth that fake dialogue choices are present in every cRPG to date which has dialogue trees (correct me if I'm mistaken), but surely we can expect the genre to improve?
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Read the reviews: <A HREF="http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1437/Mass-Effect/p1/">Team Xbox (9.6)</A>, <A HREF="http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/masseffect/review.html?sid=6183119&om_act=convert&om_clk=multimodule&tag=multimodule%3Breviews%3Btitle%3B1&page=1">GameSpot (8.5)</A>, <A HREF="http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/mass-effect/836239p1.html">GameSpy (5/5)</A>, <A HREF="http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=87875&page=1">Eurogamer (8.0)</A>, <A HREF="http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/833/833640p1.html">IGN (9.4)</A>.
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elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
There is a little improvement. Two years ago a game was an rpg because you were playing a role and you could choose the color of your air. Now some people at least recognize that some kind of dialog choices and reactions are necessary for an crpg even if they always lead to the same path and barely affect your affiliations which are chosen for you at the convenience of the writers plot and cannot be altered.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
It seems that Bioware has fallen a victim to its own hype regarding the dialogue of Mass Effect. Huge chunks of Biowares dialogue has consisted of fake options all the way back to BG2. Its only now that the media has picked up on it.

It is an unfortunate truth that fake dialogue choices are present in every cRPG to date which has dialogue trees

I certainly do not remember any fake options in Torment, or FO2.
 

tunguska

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
227
only gamespot seems to have some perspective

Having read all the reviews I could find on Bioware's latest, Gamespot seemed the most reasonable and balanced. They give it a relatively high 8.5, but if you read the whole review you will see that quite a lot of space is devoted to criticism. Certainly far more than any other review I have yet read. Clearly the story is mostly on rails and lacks some C&C but that just invites comparisons to PS:T which doesn't seem to be too lacking in fans here. When a story can be told well I have no problem with it being on rails (although the false dialogue trees can be a bit ridiculous). PS:T was certainly that way and it is my favorite computer game of all time. Graphical interactive fiction generally fits most closely in the adventure genre, but there is nothing to prevent it from fitting into the RPG genre either with the right slant. I would be a bit surprised though if bioware could pull off some decent writing though. I haven't been too impressed with their previous efforts in that regard. They don't seem to have a chris avellone over there. BTW, I would include a link to slashdot's mini-review as well. In the comments of said review someone claims to know a bioware programmer who says that they have already started work on the PC port. I am not about to go buy an xbox or an hdtv for this one game. So I will be waiting for the PC version, which may have better graphics, a higher frame rate, and even fewer bugs due to a later patched release.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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"I certainly do not remember any fake options in Torment, or FO2."

O RLY? Play them again.
 

Jiles

Educated
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
68
I find that the abbreviated text in the dialogue system can be ambiguous. That could just be me, of course, but it's given me a headache at times when I read an option as carrying a sentiment that it does not. It's also a bit of a shame that many paths lead to the place, but that's hardly uncommon in CRPGs.

It's still a fun enough game, though. I'm enjoying it so far.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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Yeha, I'm wary of the ambiguous dialogue to be sure...
 

Jiles

Educated
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Messages
68
Volourn said:
Yeha, I'm wary of the ambiguous dialogue to be sure...

One of the most annoying bits was when I was "working" on the hot blue alien babe. A response that I read as, "Don't sweat it, I was just joking" came out as "You dopey bitch, it was just a fucking joke. Sheeesh". That may be a slight exaggeration.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Jiles said:
Volourn said:
Yeha, I'm wary of the ambiguous dialogue to be sure...

One of the most annoying bits was when I was "working" on the hot blue alien babe. A response that I read as, "Don't sweat it, I was just joking" came out as "You dopey bitch, it was just a fucking joke. Sheeesh". That may be a slight exaggeration.

Bloody hell, that's more than ambigious, that's getting an insulting response from a calming option. I hope there aren't more like that.
 

Jiles

Educated
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
68
DarkUnderlord said:
It's a BioWare game. What did you expect?

It's not as much a beef with the Biowareness of the game - I know what to expect from them. It's just that the dialogue system can be very, hmm, soundbitey?
 

Jiles

Educated
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
68
Matt7895 said:
Jiles said:
Volourn said:
Yeha, I'm wary of the ambiguous dialogue to be sure...

One of the most annoying bits was when I was "working" on the hot blue alien babe. A response that I read as, "Don't sweat it, I was just joking" came out as "You dopey bitch, it was just a fucking joke. Sheeesh". That may be a slight exaggeration.

Bloody hell, that's more than ambigious, that's getting an insulting response from a calming option. I hope there aren't more like that.

Well, I did exaggerate it some, but what should have diffused the situate made Hot Alien Babe Number Blue feel like a dick (and not mine, hyuk, hyuk, hyuk).
 

Nael

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Dec 12, 2005
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Indy
Volourn said:
"I certainly do not remember any fake options in Torment, or FO2."

O RLY? Play them again.

:lol:

I was thinking the same thing. Torment especially.
 

Rina

Scholar
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
151
So Codex is covering console games now? What next? Final Fantasy XVIII and Pokémon Pink reviews?
 

Elwro

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Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
You mean I should stop working on my multipage analysis of the Dragon Quest series?:wink:

But anyway, the Codex has covered ME in the past and I can bet my sled there'll be a PC port, so why is it wrong to know more about the console version and its reception?
 

Koby

Scholar
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
356
Just wanted to pop in and say I really like this news post. I personaly don't care about ME, but I like:

- It's length, there is no rule that says that newsies needs to be short, they can be as long as as detailed as need be.
- It's summarizing nature (especially in the and), one news post to rule them all. The fact that there is a review frenzy about <triple_A_game> doesn't necessarily mean there should be a codex newsies frenzy to follow it, whether it is ME or Fallout3, as long as none of the reviews themselves are, lets call them 'special', there is no need to dedicated a news bit just for their sake.
- It's construct in general, this is more of a feel then then something specific.

Good job Elwro. :)
 

Elwro

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Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Thanks, Koby :D For any game that gets lots of, let's face it, similar texts in the course of a few days, I'd prefer a single big newspost than many smaller ones. We'll see if this works out.
 

TheLostOne

Savant
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Sep 5, 2007
Messages
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Location
Limbo
Jiles said:
Matt7895 said:
Jiles said:
Volourn said:
Yeha, I'm wary of the ambiguous dialogue to be sure...

One of the most annoying bits was when I was "working" on the hot blue alien babe. A response that I read as, "Don't sweat it, I was just joking" came out as "You dopey bitch, it was just a fucking joke. Sheeesh". That may be a slight exaggeration.

Bloody hell, that's more than ambigious, that's getting an insulting response from a calming option. I hope there aren't more like that.

Well, I did exaggerate it some, but what should have diffused the situate made Hot Alien Babe Number Blue feel like a dick (and not mine, hyuk, hyuk, hyuk).

Lol, well being a married man I can say this is pretty realistic.

Many times I'll say something attempting to calm the battle axe and it just ignites the powder kegs.

Ambiguous choices keep you on your toes. :lol:
 

fastpunk

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under the sun
Is it me or are some of these reviews contradicting each other in some areas? Some say you do have c&c and morally difficult situations, some say you don't... guess we'll need to play to find out. I'd be interesting to see it on the PC sometime in the future, the combat looks pretty good.
 

TheLostOne

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fastpunk said:
Is it me or are some of these reviews contradicting each other in some areas? Some say you do have c&c and morally difficult situations, some say you don't... guess we'll need to play to find out. I'd be interesting to see it on the PC sometime in the future, the combat looks pretty good.

From what I can tell the confilct is because the amount of actual C&C is generally few and far between, but the one's that do exist seem to be very well done and present the player with a true moral dilemma.
 

Crolug

Liturgist
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Nov 11, 2007
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Location
Panamá
It's a Bioware's game for a console. Sooner (KotOR) or later (Jade Empire) it will be ported and most probably will be better than original. About two years ago I was considering buying x360. I thought, some future games seem to be nice, StarCraft Ghost, Mass Effect, but than SCG was canceled and Mass Effect... well, don't have time for playing right now anyway, so I won't buy some MS crap just for one game that will be available for a PC in the future anyway, so...

I recently watched IGN video review and one thing drew my attention - 30 hours gameplay? What the fuck? Give me 1.2 The Witcher patch and I'm ready to replay second path than... :)
 

aries202

Erudite
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Location
Denmark, Europe
I like Gamespot's review a lot :) It is fair and balanced while it also adresses both the paragon and renegade side of Mass Effect.

Anyway, here's a review, I found on the Bioware forums. It is done by a Biowarian who has finished the game and who is really really disappointed with the game - since it doesn't apparently live up to its hype.

http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/vi ... &forum=104

He also mentions that the whole collar grabbing Garrus and the Shepard threathening bartender with a gun scene simply isn't in the game. Now, more cynical people than me might call this sort of thing false advertising...

He goes on to explain that there doesn't seem to be much party interaction going on either as well as says that exploring worlds are dull, repetitive and tedious. He likes the main story though, since the c&c in the main story often goes from bad to worse.
The main story can de done in 15-20 or so, the same goes for the optional side quests.

As some of you know, I have both here and on the Watch (rpgwatch.com) critisized Bioware for trying to make an rpg game with shooter combat since you always end up not satisfying neither the shooter fans nor the RPG fans. I do think that's the case here. And so do a lot Bioware fans apparently. Many fans of Bioware games were probably 16 or 17 year old when the BG series game came out. They seem to like the more slowpaced phase based combat instead of the realtime combat that's featured in Mass Effect.
(I know, you can pause the game, but apperently this doesn't help you much as the party AI is as bad as it is in other Bioware games - along with the pathfinding AI).

According to both Gamespot's review and the Biowarians at Bioware's forum, driving the Mako and especialy combatting via the Mako isn't what it was hyped up to be. I do think that such a hyped game as Mass Effect will have problems living up to its own hype, since people expect so much from this game.

On a final note, the weakness of Bioware c&c have always been that 2-4 options only leads to the same outcome, or maybe 2 genuine and valid options. It is a design thing that has been with Bioware from the start, I think - from BG1 and BG2.
Except in BG2 in the areas like Athhatla in which David Gaider did a lot of the writing. Hopefully, David Gaider has enough power to shift around at Bioware so that we get to see some of the same often difficult choices that was in the Athkatla area in Bioware's game, Dragon Age.

edit:
The c&c in Mass Effect is primary tied to the main story (if we are to trust the linked review from Bioware's site made by a gamer). My guess is that the people who praise Mass Effect for its choice and consequences perhaps only played the main story line, while the people who said there aren't much c&c in this game primarily played the side quests, before reviewing the game. As for the game's length, I think I have seen that one person has used about 50+ hours to finish the game, another person used 28+, and 1 person just breezed thorugh the game in about 15-18 hours or so. It really dees depends on how the individual gamer do play a game. However, when I read that the main story could be finished in like 15 hours, I pondered and wondered that maybe and perhaps Bioware just made 1 Mass Effect game with 45-60 hour gameplay, and then divided this game into three parts....but maybe that's just me...
 

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