Review GamesDomain reviews up some ToEE

[Spazmo]

Tags: Temple of Elemental Evil

<a href=http://www.gamesdomain.com>GamesDomain</a> have written a <a href=http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/reviews/pc/sep03/templevil.html>review</a> of <a href= http://www.troikagames.com>Troika</a>'s <a href=http://www.greyhawkgame.com>Temple of Elemental Evil</a>. It mostly mirrors the praise and complaints we've been hearing so far: really great combat and implementation of 3.5E D&D rules but lackluster story and some odd design decisions. There's some flat-out silly stuff, though...
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<blockquote>Recent computer RPGs like the Baldur's Gate series and Neverwinter Nights, while strongly based on the traditional pen-and-paper Dungeons and Dragons rules, all made quite a number of alterations to the core rules. They had their reasons, too, as a complete interpretation would probably put off a lot of casual players. Undaunted by these concerns, Troika has made the brave move of bringing the newly published 3.5 edition D&D rules to the PC without adulteration. They've also converted a classic first-edition module, The Temple of Elemental Evil, to these new rules.</blockquote>
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It's a strange, strange world where faithfully re-creating the actual rules of the game is a "brave move". I'm also stunned at this idea that D&D is some unfathomably complex game. It's not. The d20 system is extremely simple. The rulesets used in games like <a href=http://blizzard.com/diablo2/>Diablo II</a> or <a href=http://www.interplay.com/fallout/index.html>Fallout</a> are way trickier to understand and yet nobody complained about them.

 

[Elwro]

170-page spiral-bound manual

Cool! :D

There's also no way to prevent them loading themselves down until they're immobilised by the weight of all the junk they've hoarded.

Wait. This was in Arcanum, and was still present after the patch. And here we have it in ToEE. While I would consider myself a Troika almost-fanboi, I haven't got a clue about this one - do they really think it's a good thing?

Another odd issue concerns the game's "identity" spell. [blahblahblah] - where the real problem lies, however, is in the fact that the spell doesn't give you anything more than the proper name of the item. While in some cases it's obvious what it does -- like a +1 longsword or a ring of invisibility -- if you don't already know what, say, a cloak of elvenkind does, then the game won't tell you! A bug or a deliberate design decision?

is it a try to fight piracy? By including descriptions in the manual only? That would be stupid.

 

[huh]

the NPC followers in TOEE are generally wacky. they get their hands on treasure and loot before the player party. always. and you can't control what they take or sell off. including quest items. doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to what they do. in general they are a pain in the ass to have, although they are pretty powerful from early on. I only tried the first few NPCs at the inn, though. I just had to get rid of them. don't know if Im missing anything (maybe some quests?), but I seem to be doing alright with my 5 PCs (a LE party).

the thing about item descriptions is true. except there is nothing even in the manual. maybe they expected us to have the D&D item references. even the description window in the game is tiny and unscrollable, I don't know where they'd put a proper description anyway. weird decision. the manual is great, btw - they crammed a lot of D&D rules into it. and it's all inside the game as well, in their help system.

that aside, and some severe slow-downs and constant locking up of the cursor during combat (they should fix this in a patch asap), I'm in the TB gaming bliss. although, if you expect well-written dialog, Fallout/Arcanum level characters, gameworld, plots or sub-plots, or great voice acting... well, better don't or it will break your heart.

review comment 1 - there are no action points.
review comment 2 - yes, battle encounters are difficult. for a good reason - they took CR numbers seriously. a battle with a single Hll Giant is a huge event and every time you encounter one, it's like "oh, shit we are all gonna die". contrast it with THE other D&D game where I was kicking the crap out of an adult dragon (!) playing as a lone sorceror.

I think TOEE is largely a huge success (minuse the performance problems) for what it was meant to be. every D&D detail is lovingly crafted. the first time I saw a giant frog grappling my monk and then swallowing him whole, I moved another PC closer just to see the animation again. web effects, tripping, critical hits all done really nice. trolls drop down but then jump up at you again if you don't use acid, or fire. and trust me, in a dungeon with sinister shadows everywhere, it's pretty spooky. in general, the game does have strong "atmosphere". little details everywhere. great graphics, music and sound-effects. I think the combat system (not the fact that it's D&D, but HOW the implemented it) in TOEE is a thing of beauty.

now if they would combine the gameworld of Arcanum and the battle engine of TOEE... whoohoo

 

[EEVIAC]

The NPC load-up is something I don't understand. Its in the player's best interest to keep their followers well equiped, and the player can usually do that far better than a kooky bit of AI. If I found a really nice robe in Arcanum, it went straight to Virgil, not to a shop. Even when you went to a bordello, all your followers went with you. :shock: So if everything was shared out equally, there's no reason for them to be greedy with the loot.

As for the accurate implementation of D&D, I've never played PnP, I've never read Tolkien, and I honestly couldn't give a fuck about drow and dragons. Still, doing something right isn't nearly as trendy in modern games as being "innovative."

By the way, Gamespot have a ToEE review up, yo.

 

[Sol Invictus]

There's one way to get those magic items that your followers loot - bring them to a store that doesn't buy items that they're carrying - i.e. the herbalist in Nulb. All of their equipment becomes unflagged and you can do what you like with it, like selling it for yourself.

 

[protobob]

Personally I've found that NPC's hardly ever sell their loot the first time you shop. So I just move the sutff I want to me during that first shopping trip. Maybe it's a bug, but it would piss me off if you couldn't do it.

I really havn't had much trouble with the NPC Followers getting encumbered, to be honest, I Think it has happened once or twice (well, melanie is encumbered all the time just holding her own equipment (wimpy girl she is)).

I just got rid of an NPC bard. Didn't much care for him, so I ditched him. Other than a few heals and running his bard song I didn't do much with him. Plus I had to make room in the part for a special someone (he carrys a huge golden bastard sword, hint).

 

[HanoverF]

Theres a bug where followers will loot one item of a stack from a chest or corpse, but their inventory is full, so it flags the stack is unlootable.

I thought I'd be smart and leave one on the corpse, and it let me take the rest, but the entire stack is marked as the NPCs and you cant sell or drop em, so I'm stuck with a character with one less slot when there are allready too few

 

[Flarnet]

I don't think there are many other games that lay it on you so overwhelmingly EARLY as D&D does. Sure, other games like Diablo have complex skill systems and item stats, but that isn't all thrown onto the players shoulders during the first hour like the character system in D&D is.
I mean... the character options are just beyond numerous.

And it's not easy to have to choose before you even start the game. In games where you develop your character from scratch during the game you have a chance of knowing if "mageslayer" is gonna do you any good. But in D&D games you have to make ALL those decisions before you even see the game world.

I'm sorry. D&D may be logical, but it sure as hell ain't simple.

 

[Volourn]

The game isn't hard. The vast majority of battles were easy; though some *cough* Hill giant *cough* can be really tough.

The manual, while packed with useful info also has lots of errors in it. Not to mention, no real detail on item creation.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

The item creation thingy is my only gripe. What, I gotta get the feat first, after I have chosen the spell I think I might need?