Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Review @Play with Incursion

Jason

chasing a bee
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
10,737
Location
baby arm fantasy island
Tags: Incursion

<a href="http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/01/column_play_cause_for_incursio.php" target="blank">The latest edition</a> of semi-regular, ASCII-worshipping GameSetWatch column @Play focuses on <b><a href="http://www.incursion-roguelike.net/" target="blank">Incursion</a></b>, a D&D Open Game License roguelike.
<br>
<blockquote>As roguelike games get more ambitious, they get longer. As they get longer, the sense of loss when the player dies increases. As that happens, the player gets more likely to quit forever out of frustration. Designers, seeing this, make the game easier, which removes the challenge, the whole reason for playing a roguelike game in the first place.
<br>
<br>
To Incursion's credit, it seems to recognize this. While its premise as a D&D 3rd Edition roguelike imposes an unavoidable complexity to startup time, the ability to use "reincarnated" characters cuts down on this drastically. The dungeon is unusually atmospheric for a roguelike, and the array of treasure and opponents seems to be above average. While there are problems to be found, some serious, we have every reason to think they will eventually be fixed. Incursion, and its expanded sequel should that ever see our hard drives, are unquestionably games to keep an eye on. </blockquote>
<br>
And read on further for a supplemental article about Vancian magic in RPGs.
<br>
<blockquote>The answer snaps into focus, however, once one reads <i>The Dying Earth</i>. Gygax must have been entranced by this vision of magic. But Vance's magicians are anything but weaklings: they are potent individuals, some with formidable physical skills. Your choice of class in D&D, unless you multiclassed which carried its own drawbacks and didn't exist until AD&D 1st edition, precludes having many hit points or the use of protective equipment. Vance's creations would not be so restricted.</blockquote>
 

Durwyn

Prophet
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
1,132
Location
Erewhon
Hey! Why the fuck the Incursion website isn't working ? I've played it long time ago, and suddenly, when reading this news, a will to play it once more arised. Anybody has a download link for it ?
 

Durwyn

Prophet
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
1,132
Location
Erewhon
Thanks. Somehow website won't work for me but the download link works like a charm.
 

Lightknight

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
705
What ? @Play writing about something other than Nethack ? Highly unusual.
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
I want to play a roguelike with c&c, great characters and dialog trees. Why is that every roguelike has to be a power gaming feast where you find a way to abuse the system in order to get your name in the top ten of those who have beaten the game? I suppose it would not be a roguelike if it wasn't like that but it could be a great game with a simple interface and a low budget and development time.
 

Unradscorpion

Arbiter
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
1,488
elander_ said:
I want to play a roguelike with c&c, great characters and dialog trees. Why is that every roguelike has to be a power gaming feast where you find a way to abuse the system in order to get your name in the top ten of those who have beaten the game? I suppose it would not be a roguelike if it wasn't like that but it could be a great game with a simple interface and a low budget and development time.
Gearhead is as close as you'll get.

Roguelikes are all about replayability and gameplay, c&c and dialog trees will be awesome the first 10 times you play the game, but roguelikes are games you play at least 100 times.

You could tone down the permadeath like GearHead did to lower the number of replays, but that takes away that special feeling only RLs have.
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
elander_ said:
I want to play a roguelike with c&c, great characters and dialog trees. Why is that every roguelike has to be a power gaming feast where you find a way to abuse the system in order to get your name in the top ten of those who have beaten the game? I suppose it would not be a roguelike if it wasn't like that but it could be a great game with a simple interface and a low budget and development time.

Well, because it's 'Roguelikes'? It's an established genre.
Diablo was named 'Roguelike' for a reason, you know. You might as well ask for deep story, dialogues and C&C in sports games.
While you CAN add all this to Roguelike, just like you can add strategy element to it (see DF) - but it would not be a 'roguelike' anymore, except for graphics (or lack of it).

And one thing you should remeber - making a deep, yet branching story, lots of meaningful dialogues, etc - it's a actually harder then making a game with stellar graphics.
We've seen a lot of games that (for the time) were considered 'top notch', but games with 'top notch C&C, story and dialogues'? You can count them by the fingers of one hand!
If rogulikes cannot afford splendid graphics, why should they be able to afford detailed story and dialogues? It is NOT something you can do all by yourself in a month or two.
Unless (or, daresay, even) you are a professional writer.
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
Of course roguelikes are not usually made to have great characters and c&c, which i mentioned before, but that doesn't meen they couldn't or that a genre which mixes the two game styles couldn't be interesting. Roguelikes are already very close to crpgs.

If you think that a roguelike is about permadeath, procedural dungeons, replayability and being able to beat the game system and survive then i don't see how it's so hard to fit c&c and developed characters and factions with those games. Just look at it as another way to beat the system that offers more lore and more ways to interact with the world.

If rogulikes cannot afford splendid graphics, why should they be able to afford detailed story and dialogues?

3D graphics take much more time to work and master. C&C require only some good taste in writing and study games like Fallout to see how it's done.
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
I'm tentatively eyeing Oct 31, 2010 as a possible release date -- moving the prior stated date forward by one year -- in part, honestly, because I find the 'release for Halloween' gimmick attractive. However, I realize at this point that I'm very, very bad at predicting development timeframes, so I'm not making any promises.

I'll post more news about the dev process as it happens, and hopefully by the time I'm ready to take another hiatus, I'll have a firmer idea of the timeframe.
:(
At least Julian seems to be getting something done. I hope this rewriting the whole game-code is worth the effort.
Did anybody ever get past dungeon level 6-8? The game always freezes on me there when the battles get too big and summoned creatures start summoning creatures who start summoning creatures... ;)
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom