Review VD holds forth on Dragon Age Quest Design

[Jason]

Tags: Dragon Age; Vault Dweller

Iron Tower Ubersturmfuhrer <b>Vault Dweller</b> and <b>Gareth "NakedNinja" Fouche</b> threw together their thoughts on <a href="http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1176.0.html" target="blank">quest design in Dragon Age</a>.
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<blockquote>Not only are the quests well integrated with the main plot, they do a great job of introducing and illustrating the core themes and conflicts of the world of Dragon Age. The setting is a familiar mix of Tolkienesque fantasy races, Elves, Dwarves, Ogres and suchlike, but the quests bring the conflicts that shape these groups to life, whether it is the tension between the Circle of Magi and the Chantry, who is tasked with keeping their dangerous powers in check, the treacherous arena of Dwarven politics or the struggle for the Elves to survive and thrive. Rather than simply being told about the setting's conflicts, you get to witness them and participate in them.
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And you definitely get to play an active role. The second aspect of good quest design is, as we all know, player’s choice, the ability to make decisions that affect both the player and the world around him. Dragon Age does a better job of providing these options than any previous Bioware game, in fact any RPG since Arcanum, and rarely misses a chance to present you with an interesting choice to consider.</blockquote>
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The article manages to make DA sound like a pretty nifty game, which leads to only one logical conclusion: Gaider finally managed to buy off Vault Dweller. So how many Mass Effect 2 tchotchkes did it take, VD? Was that Garrus t-shirt really worth it?

 

[Melcar]

VD sold out to the Man.

 

[Andhaira]

Maybe this means AoD will be similar to DA in themes and quest design.

 

[Silellak]

Maybe this means AoD will be similar to DA in themes and quest design.

Probably. It's reasonable to assume that VD and the rest of the ITS team scrapped years of development work because DA surprisingly had some nifty quest design and background lore.

 

[hakuroshi]

Well, main quests in DA do have a good design. Yes, they could have been done better, but they are genuinely good and even best we've had in years. Since Troyka demise at least.

It's other things that make DA much less enjoyable that it could but that's for another threads.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

VD went Hollywood.

 

[Darth Roxor]

In before NPCs rising up after combat in AoD

 

[HanoverF]

Maybe this means AoD will be similar to DA in themes and quest design.

Probably. It's reasonable to assume that VD and the rest of the ITS team

More like ITZ team.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Meh, I'll agree that Bioware and Bethesda are playing in different leagues. I enjoyed DA:O, despite regularly facepalming. I'd be reasonably happy if the crpg industry was at the level where games like DA were the 'vanilla' of rpgs - the mass market 'standard-but-forgettable' games, with more niche titles at the edges of the market.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

In the words of the Prophet:

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART

 

[JarlFrank]

I agree with VD mostly. Quest design was generally very good for a mainstream title, with choices being around everywhere in the mainquest and persuasion/intimidation skillchecks being used very often (although often they just lead to avoiding combat against a trivial amount of enemies). I haven't finished the game yet (about halfway through) but what I've seen so far is really surprisingly good.

Doesn't change the fact that many of the great quests are ruined by long drawn-out dungeon crawls that throw one trash mob after the other towards you, which makes some areas rather tedious.

 

[Satori (original)]

I agree with VD mostly. Quest design was generally very good for a mainstream title.

Unfortunatelty the whole quest-board/quest-person drags it down to the level of lazy design which constitues half of the quests and simply leads to fed ex bull, aside from that, yes I agree however the aforementioned problem pulls the quality of the game down considerably into mediocrity and the ratio of good to bad simply cannot out weigh it.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I agree with VD mostly. Quest design was generally very good for a mainstream title.

Unfortunatelty the whole quest-board/quest-person drags it down to the level of lazy design which constitues half of the quests and simply leads to fed ex bull, aside from that, yes I agree however the aforementioned problem pulls the quality of the game down considerably into mediocrity and the ratio of good to bad simply cannot out weigh it.

Those quest are insignificant and serve no other purpose than to give additional XP/money.
And they do their job in that regard so why focus on them? The monster board in TW wasn't any better too.

 

[Bluebottle]

I agree with VD mostly. Quest design was generally very good for a mainstream title.

Unfortunatelty the whole quest-board/quest-person drags it down to the level of lazy design which constitues half of the quests and simply leads to fed ex bull, aside from that, yes I agree however the aforementioned problem pulls the quality of the game down considerably into mediocrity and the ratio of good to bad simply cannot out weigh it.

I see the board quests as an element that is designed to appeal to someone else, namely MMO players, and stay well away from them. Yes, it's a missed opportunity, but I never really felt like the rest of the game was incomplete without them, or lacking quests. A similar situation to the preposterously dull board quests in The Witcher.

What I do find troubling about them, is that it represents Bioware's subscription to the idea that RPGs have to have some kind of grind present, otherwise they're just not RPGs, which is obviously a very depressing and damaging concept that hurts the game in more ways than just the board quests.

 

[Jim Cojones]

Iron Tower Ubersturmfuhrer Vault Dweller threw together his thoughts on quest design in Dragon Age

In collaboration with Gareth Fouche

 

[Ch1ef]

Doesn't change the fact that many of the great quests are ruined by long drawn-out dungeon crawls that throw one trash mob after the other towards you, which makes some areas rather tedious.

For example? Can someone give me an example of a "great" quest in DA?

 

[hakuroshi]

Doesn't change the fact that many of the great quests are ruined by long drawn-out dungeon crawls that throw one trash mob after the other towards you, which makes some areas rather tedious.

For example? Can someone give me an example of a "great" quest in DA?

If VDs example does not qualify, there were no "great" quests in any crpg. Might be a possibility.

 

[Stalin]

VD sold out to the Man.

He was always a wannabee Man flunkey

 

[Derper]

A great quest? Solve the mystery of the siamese skull in Arcanum was great IMHO. Original, at least.

Kill Carlson in NCR in Fallout 2 had a great variety of different approaches. Sending in his kid with a planted stick of dynamite was funny.

Find Ravel-quest in PS:T was great. Complex, adventure-like puzzling and great story. You know the drill.

 

[Ch1ef]

Doesn't change the fact that many of the great quests are ruined by long drawn-out dungeon crawls that throw one trash mob after the other towards you, which makes some areas rather tedious.

For example? Can someone give me an example of a "great" quest in DA?

If VDs example does not qualify, there were no "great" quests in any crpg. Might be a possibility.

Oh, sorry my good sir, i stopped reading after this:

Dragon Age is definitely one of the best, if not the best, Bioware game to-date, and certainly one of the best role-playing games in years.

But after your response i forced myself to read this beatiful article writen by the beautifull author. Aaaaaand...

















it blows. Fuck you, biowhores.

 

[Data4]

Doesn't change the fact that many of the great quests are ruined by long drawn-out dungeon crawls that throw one trash mob after the other towards you, which makes some areas rather tedious.

For example? Can someone give me an example of a "great" quest in DA?

The only one that seemed drawn out was the Deep Roads bit of the dwarves questline, and it's pretty much a consensus among both those who like the game and dislike it. The other three major hubs felt just right in terms of length of time investment vs. storyline payoff. At least that's my criteria-- if you're going to make me grind through a bunch of crap, at least make the end of said crap worth it. Granted, there's a lot at the end of DR, but it didn't seem proportionate to the effort to get there.

There's two "boss" encounters, but the first (Brood Mother) was just a blot on the lore thing. Sure, you run into Hepsith, who spouts off a pretty creepy "1, 2, Freddy's coming for you" thingie, culminating in the reveal of what amounts to a Darkspawn baby factory. In VD's thread, someone mentioned that early mention of the quest for the Sacred Urn before you got involved was a nice bit of showing events taking place in the world. I think dropping hints about the Brood Mother early on, prior to even reaching Orzammar would have given the encounter a better payoff. Instead, you find out about it in the last section of corridor crawling prior to the fight.

By contrast, I like how the Temple Ruins in the Elf questline had stuff that was completely seperate and not required in the main quest, but added nice lore and goodies. I refer to the mage phylactory and the Elven tomb. You could skip it outright and still finish the main elf/werewolf quest. Brood Mother was more of a "Oh, by the way..." that you HAD to do to continue.

 

[Ch1ef]

^Sounds pretty lame
:sigh:

 

[Lockkaliber]

He's not wrong, the design of the quests is good. What ultimately kills it though is that the writing that is supposed to make the quests seem compelling, is so bland and generic that it's very hard to immerse yourself in the gameworld. In other words: if they want to make a story-driven game, find someone who can write for shit.

 

[hakuroshi]

^Sounds pretty lame
:sigh:

See? it's impossible to prove anything to some who already knows the answer before asking. Be it Volourn or bio-haters

A great quest? Solve the mystery of the siamese skull in Arcanum was great IMHO. Original, at least.

Kill Carlson in NCR in Fallout 2 had a great variety of different approaches. Sending in his kid with a planted stick of dynamite was funny.

Find Ravel-quest in PS:T was great. Complex, adventure-like puzzling and great story. You know the drill.

Well, you calmed my fears. Find Ravel was really great quest and encounter with her was an awesome expirience.
Carlson quest was exellent in variety of methods possible. Nothing special otherwise.
Siamese twins... A good story, but pretty straithforward in structure.

Except for Ravel quest, they are not really superior to Redcliff sequence, though do surpass it in some areas.

Problem that Redcliff is probably the most complex in DA...

As for quality of writing... that's a valid point.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Doesn't change the fact that many of the great quests are ruined by long drawn-out dungeon crawls that throw one trash mob after the other towards you, which makes some areas rather tedious.

For example? Can someone give me an example of a "great" quest in DA?

If VDs example does not qualify, there were no "great" quests in any crpg. Might be a possibility.

Oh, sorry my good sir, i stopped reading after this:

Dragon Age is definitely one of the best, if not the best, Bioware game to-date, and certainly one of the best role-playing games in years.

But after your response i forced myself to read this beatiful article writen by the beautifull author. Aaaaaand...

















it blows. Fuck you, biowhores.

And another retard joins the hating group.