Game News Steve Moret speaks up on 2nd ToEE patch

[Whipporowill]

Tags: Steve Moret; Temple of Elemental Evil; Troika Games

Michael Wolf of <a href="http://www.troikachronicles.com/" target=_blank>Troika Chronicles</a> has gotten a few words with the Old Monkey himself, Steve Moret, and it seems the 2nd patch for Troika's the Temple of Elemental Evil is pretty much done and heading our way in a week or so, God (Allah, Javeh et c) willing.
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<i>Are there plans to add more detailed magic item descriptions in future patches?</i>
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No plans, but it is something we could do.
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If Atari pays you, you mean Steve? Doesn't seem likely, as we all know.
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Read the rest on Steve's Patch Q&A over <a href="http://www.troikachronicles.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=9" target=_blank>here</a>
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.troikachronicles.com" target=_blank>The Troika Chronicles</A>

 

[Ultron]

Maybe this means I can get out of the fire node without rebooting 5 times and wasting 5 hours.... :shock:

Oh, that's right....it must be my machine or OS.......

 

[Seven]

Cut the guy some slack. He didn't have to patch the game, and he did it on his personal time.

 

[Ultron]

No knock on Steve....he seems like a pretty cool dude....my knock is on the QA testing (which they've acknowledged)....I tried so hard to like this game, but the instability of it really irked me. I will finish it, however, when the patch comes.

 

[Seven]

Yeah, I hear that.t was just so light on story that it couldn't compensate for the slew of bugs.

 

[Michael_Wolf]

Yeah, I hear that.t was just so light on story that it couldn't compensate for the slew of bugs.

I agree that ToEE is very light on story. Arcanum was a much better CRPG. But ToEE has the best implementation of D&D rules in any game ever and the turn-based combat is awesome. So if you like D&D and games like Jagged Alliance or Silent Storm you should enjoy ToEE.
I think the most annoying bugs in ToEE were the slowdowns and CTDs. All the other bugs were pretty minor IMO.

 

[Transcendent One]

ToEE is a pretty poor CRPG though it does have the best combat I've seen in several years. I've only had about 4 or 5 bug occurances with ToEE which is way less than in many other games.

I think I'll give the game a go with the new patch, though I seem to have lost interest in it a while ago.

 

[taks]

But ToEE has the best implementation of D&D rules in any game ever and the turn-based combat is awesome.

well, if you discount the fact they nerfed nearly every rule in the game, yeah... best implementation....

oh wait, everybody meant best attempt at implementing D&D correctly, right? right?

taks

 

[Tris McCall]

I think the most annoying bugs in ToEE were the slowdowns and CTDs. All the other bugs were pretty minor IMO.

I encountered a few that were really inconvenient and buggered up my attempts at roleplaying -- I couldn't complete certain quests that were necessary to open up other quests. But yeah, I agree, the massive slowdowns and CTDs are the big problem.

Knowing nothing about computers, I doubt those will be addressed by a patch. I've never had slowdowns fixed by patching. Steve Moret said nothing about the slowdowns in the interview, so I have to assume that wasn't his priority. Too bad! I was hoping to one day play ToEE at the speed it was meant to be played at. Guess I just need a faster computer.

 

[taks]

this is all speculation, but i think the slowdowns are due to the way they implement pathfinding. at least, that's how it seems. i haven't been into the nodes yet, but i've noticed the engine does all the pathfinding up-front rather than on-the-fly. as a result, it has to do a lot of calculating all at once and then things smooth out till the next major movement (explaining why the game nearly dies if you click on an area that can't be reached...) my guess would be that it calculates movement and positioin for the entire map, too, which may explain the issues in the nodes... doubtful steve's efforts will address this. issues like these don't have clear cut solutions and LOTs of developers have tried to solve them to no avail... yet.

mark

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

oh wait, everybody meant best attempt at implementing D&D correctly, right? right?

Yes, but while said nerfing and failed implementation of some of the rules is definetely there, it managed to come out the closest.

As for the pathfinding, i'm inclined to agree.

 

[Sheriff05]

oh wait, everybody meant best attempt at implementing D&D correctly, right? right?

You're a prick, at least give credit where credit is due, no game other D&D game comes remotely close to recreating the combat rules as does ToEE.
From your posts here and the ones I've seen Atari board and you sound like you've spent a hell of alot more time criticizing the game than playing it.

 

[Voss]

I think the most annoying bugs in ToEE were the slowdowns and CTDs. All the other bugs were pretty minor IMO.

I encountered a few that were really inconvenient and buggered up my attempts at roleplaying -- I couldn't complete certain quests that were necessary to open up other quests. But yeah, I agree, the massive slowdowns and CTDs are the big problem.

Knowing nothing about computers, I doubt those will be addressed by a patch. I've never had slowdowns fixed by patching. Steve Moret said nothing about the slowdowns in the interview, so I have to assume that wasn't his priority. Too bad! I was hoping to one day play ToEE at the speed it was meant to be played at. Guess I just need a faster computer.

Out of curiousity, which quests were broken?

 

[Elwro]

In my game, the "Convince Mickey not to visit the brothel" quest is broken. There's no suitable dialogue option (and I was playing various PCs), and beating him up doesn't work - he just stays there hostile till the end of the world.

 

[Sammael]

What good is the rules implementation if the AI doesn't actually use it?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Can you be more specific?

 

[Limorkil]

When I first heard about TOEE at this site I thought it sounded pretty good but all the talk of bugs put me off. I told myself that I would wait for the developers to patch it a couple of times. Well, looks like it is almost time for me to go find myself a copy.

 

[Sammael]

Can you be more specific?

Sure. The opponents cheat (e.g. drinking potions without provoking AoOs) and don't follow the rules (e.g. low-CR killer werewolves, creatures with DR without barbarian levels). Those enemies that actually do play by the rules are ridiculously easy to beat, which means that the AI engine is pretty bad.

 

[Spazmo]

(e.g. drinking potions without provoking AoOs)

This affected players also and was corrected in the first patch.

(e.g. low-CR killer werewolves

Yeah, the CR 28 Hezrou who (naturally) gave no XP to my level eight party really annoyed me--I mentioned it in my review. I'm not sure on this, but I suspect it was also fixed with the first patch. Might have fixed the werewolves, too.

creatures with DR without barbarian levels

What? Don't lots of monsters get DR without being BBNs? I think gargoyles get 5/+1 DR without having any barb levels. Unless you mean something like 5/--, which would be odd. Still, examples?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Can you be more specific?

Sure. The opponents cheat (e.g. drinking potions without provoking AoOs) and don't follow the rules (e.g. low-CR killer werewolves, creatures with DR without barbarian levels).

Doesn't seem like enough to claim that AI doesn't "actually use rules". The enemy archers actually take 5-foot steps, the tanks try to trip and kill my weak characters, there are plenty of AoOs, etc.

 

[Anonymous]

But ToEE has the best implementation of D&D rules in any game ever and the turn-based combat is awesome.

well, if you discount the fact they nerfed nearly every rule in the game, yeah... best implementation....

oh wait, everybody meant best attempt at implementing D&D correctly, right? right?

taks

Examples, PLZ SIR

 

[Tris McCall]

Out of curiousity, which quests were broken?

Voss --

I couldn't get Mona to recognize her orb -- even after the patch,

I, too, had problems finding/talking to Mickey,

I had all kinds of dialogue difficulty and mix-ups with Romag (he wouldn't recognize we'd killed Allrem's assistants),

The Chaotic Evil vignette never ended (this was eventually fixed by the patch, but only after a few tries),

There are others, too, but I can't rule out that I might just be doing something wrong -- or may have triggered something I shouldn't have.

Interestingly, my first party was also given the reputation "defiler of women" for no reason. We were evil, alright, but we didn't defile any women.

I have also never been able to get Invisibility spells to work.

 

[Volourn]

VD, I think he means races classified as humanoids whoa ren't special enough like a monster like gragoyles to gets eocial treatment like DR w/o barbarian levels. I think he means that type of "cheating". I don't really consider it cheating; just that it's a FUBAR way to make things more challengingw hich of cours ein the case of TOEE's bugbears; it ultimately failed anyways.

CR28? WOWSERS! You musta faced a different hezrou then me..

 

[Spazmo]

Kill the hezrou pre-patch and check the CR in the journal. It says 28 right there.

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD, I think he means races classified as humanoids whoa ren't special enough like a monster like gragoyles to gets eocial treatment like DR w/o barbarian levels. I think he means that type of "cheating".

His original comment was "What good is the rules implementation if the AI doesn't actually use it?".