Development Info Doublebear Design Update

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: Brian Mitsoda; DoubleBear Productions

Another topic is up over at ITS, this time concerning their <a href="http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1488.0.html">Armor system.</a>
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<p style="margin-left:50px;border-style:solid;border-width:1px;border-top-color:#ffffff;padding:5px;border-right-color:#bbbbbb;border-left-color:#ffffff;border-bottom-color:#bbbbbb;">As in real life, most armors are designed to protect against a certain kind of attack – for example, bullet resistant armor is great for absorbing ballistic damage, but offer little protection against a knife or bite. Matching the armor to the type of opponent you’ll be facing is key – if your melee guy spend a lot of time fighting zombies, put him in armor with bite resistance. If your ranged girl spends a lot of time exchanging fire with other shooters, put her in ballistic armor. Some armor is general purpose, but doesn’t offer the same amount of resistance as specialty armor. Only the highest levels of armor offer adequate resistance to multiple types of attack, but they are difficult to obtain and never offer the level of resistance of the highest level specialty armors.
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Some armors are so heavy or bulky that the wearer incurs a penalty to their AP. Armor does not degrade and there is never a need to repair it, though some armors can be upgraded with the Science skill. Some types of armor can only be created with the Science skill, and others are so rare that the player will only find one or two pieces in the entire game. Armor is equipped in the armor (body) slot – there is no need to find multiple pieces of armor to receive its full benefit.
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Also they're still looking for artists:
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<blockquote>Oh, and we’re once again looking for prop artists. So, if you or someone you know is looking to contribute – and work with indie art maestro Oscar! – please get in touch with us. We have a sticky thread on the board with more info.</blockquote>
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... so if you think you have anything worthwhile to contribute, <a href="http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1390.0.html">head over there at once.</a>
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.irontowerstudio.com">ITS</A>

 

[Hory]

I can model toy alphabet cubes, foot balls, bricks, crates, Borg ships, 90's mobile phones, softcover books, wooden planks, damaged doors (e.g. no handles), CD cases, packaged board games, matchboxes, modern painting frames, uncut triangle sandwitches, you name it.

 

[Tails]

I liked the game more with every design update.

 

[SerratedBiz]

"Hardcode", "Difficult", "Oshi-" mode, or whatever you call that one where the gameplay is harder and more realistic, should allow you the chance to include armor / weapon degradation.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Few people think that repairing degradable equipment is fun:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5200

 

[denizsi]

It can be interesting, add tension and introduce priorities among other other things when implemented as an abstract management option in some games (do I do management & repairs or prepare potions/train/research/something when I rest; do I travel fast to arrive somewhere in time with little time for automated stuff like that and risk being ill prepared or not etc.), but I have yet to see it done right so I'd rather not see it done than see it done badly.

It more or less worked in JA2. Degradation wasn't fast but if you didn't do repairs for a long time, weapons could start malfunctioning. However, you had to leave someone at a sector and assign him to repairs, costing time and money and a merc MIA that could be better used elsewhere. Still could have been done better, but it's the sole working good example that I can think of.

 

[Phelot]

Few people think that repairing degradable equipment is fun:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5200

I like JA2's approach though. Most found items need to be repaired, but otherwise the only way an item gets damaged is if it is used excessively or it suffers catastrophic damage like an explosion. I never found it tedious or frustrating, though perhaps challenging if I really needed a found weapon to function right away.

But yeah, Arcanums repair system was terrible, especially considering how much shit could damage your armor/weapons.

 

[denizsi]

Yes, finding broken stuff and repairing them as you find parts to be able to start using at some point might be very motivating.

 

[SerratedBiz]

I enjoyed JA's style of repairing weapons and armor. Leaving someone experienced in charge of fixing my stuff felt very right in the whole guerilla / you're your own army aspect of JA, and I believe you should get the same kind of feeling out of running your team in zombie city.

The one logical reason I can think of for being against repairing your own stuff is that there's so many resources around that you don't really need to: it's just easier getting a new gun. But I think I read in one of these updates that you're not the only human team around, and resources are not that plentiful, and just scavenging all the time might require you to overextend your range and endanger yourself.

As far as it not being enjoyable, the game could easily incorporate options in your difficulty settings. A quick example is Space Rangers II, where you can choose between various parameters to gradually toughen things up: quests, Dominators, equipment failure, equipment availability, from what I recall, can all be set to be easier or tougher on the player.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

Few people think that repairing degradable equipment is fun:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5200

If you can't make it feel an integral, even fun, part of the gameplay, then of course it's not going to be much liked. The only game that accomplished that was Diablo. The others make you carry crap around and wonder why you ever screamed "woo fuck yeah!" when you found that supposedly awesome magic sword.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I actually like FO3's approach. Cannibalize similar items to repair the best one. With a party based game, it's even better - do I put shoddy armor on two guys or do I give better armor to one of tham and keep the other one out of harm's way? Made the repairing process more fun and involved than just clicking on a repair button.

It was also forgiving enough so it didn't turn the game into a boring quest for repair items. You used what you found along the way.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

FO3 seems to have too little ammo. I never feel like I can just relax FOR A SINGLE MOMENT and just unload it all on the stupid monsters (the worst enemy AI I've ever seen in a game BTW, although not terribly immersion breaking, because I imagine most of the monsters are completely brainless anyway; I wonder how well a real giant ant could reach you if you were standing somewhere it couldn't get to by walking straight toward you).

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

Few people think that repairing degradable equipment is fun:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5200

If you can't make it feel an integral, even fun, part of the gameplay, then of course it's not going to be much liked. The only game that accomplished that was Diablo. The others make you carry crap around and wonder why you ever screamed "woo fuck yeah!" when you found that supposedly awesome magic sword.

Of course, in Diablo the weapons only lose durability, not damage, and armors only lose durability, not AC. So not much of a mechanic to begin with, but it certainly felt more appropriate than the Morrowind way where the best weapon is the one you never dare to use.

I actually like FO3's approach. Cannibalize similar items to repair the best one. With a party based game, it's even better - do I put shoddy armor on two guys or do I give better armor to one of tham and keep the other one out of harm's way? Made the repairing process more fun and involved than just clicking on a repair button.

It was also forgiving enough so it didn't turn the game into a boring quest for repair items. You used what you found along the way.

I haven't played enough yet to really comment on that. For the first couple of game hours, I had no idea how to repair anything, so that left an unwarranted bad impression. (The manual didn't have a Repair section or sub-section that you could see from the contents page.)

 

[denizsi]

Diablo is such a shitty example. Repairs were there just so the game wouldn't feel as shallow and monotonous as it really was.

I also liked the basic model in FO3, but it was way too simplified, items degraded too fast (unconditional deterioration with use plain sucks anyway) and deterioration and repairs probably shouldn't work on the exact same cannibalize-other-items-on-the-fly principle for every item type. "Major" repairs for some items, for instance, could require using a workbench.

As far as it not being enjoyable, the game could easily incorporate options in your difficulty settings. A quick example is Space Rangers II, where you can choose between various parameters to gradually toughen things up: quests, Dominators, equipment failure, equipment availability, from what I recall, can all be set to be easier or tougher on the player.

That's one of those things that should have caught on with developers everywhere and annoys me endlessly that it hasn't. Perhaps the devs think that they only know the best and decide their awesome visions need not be tainted by giving the players such options. Again, JA2 comes to mind as another option example. That the whole game could be simplified somewhat without dumbing down the core game by letting players choose combat realism, gun pornography etc. worked so good, but developer primadonnas are too cool to give players the choice now.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

Diablo is such a shitty example. Repairs were there just so the game wouldn't feel as shallow and monotonous as it really was.

I know. I already admitted it was a shitty example. You were right, and I was wrong. It's not a good example.

 

[kris]

Few people think that repairing degradable equipment is fun:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5200

Like posts in that topic really implies the biggest problem here is that equipment break to easily. Just ready your own Arcanum comment. Basicallt items could break so quickly that you had to carry on several back up swords. (equipment breakdown made perfect sense in Arcanum when it came to hitting thcnk skinned opponents, like a golem with a sword.)

 

[Azael]

Repairing broken stuff is OK and can be quite fun especially with a crafting system that lets you modify items or build new shit. General maintenance of items is usually a chore though. Guns don't magically degrade every time you shoot them, unless you drag them through mud/sand/etc. while doing it. Normal maintenance such as cleaning your gun is one of those things I assume my characters are doing in their downtime, just as I assume they're taking care of personal hygiene without me telling them to.

One thing that would make sense though is that the guns/items belonging to characters with a high mechanical skill would degrade slower since it's likely that those characters take better care of them in the first place. I'd probably do the same thing for good shooters, since there's more to being skilled with firearms than just knowing how to aim and pull the trigger. Once the gun is broken though, you need repair skills to fix them. How about skill synergies in a situation like this? A repairman who is also an experienced marksman should have an easier time repairing firearms, IMO.