Editorial Buying Used Games Doesn't Make You a Bad Person

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: Jeff Vogel; Spiderweb Software

<p>... says Spiderweb's Jeff Vogel. And he explains why:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Second, books are works of art and media for transmitting ideas. Art and ideas are good things, and we as a society want them to move around freely. This helps us to have, you know, a culture. Not to mention the free flow of competing ideas that is necessary for a healthy republic. And, if you take video games seriously as works of art and human expression, as I know the Penny Arcade guys do, you should want a similar freedom to apply to them.<br /><br />(By the way, when I wrote not long ago about times when piracy is OK, many people told me that they pirated games when they were young because they had no money. In the world of books, this simple fact is understood. That is why libraries exist. As much as the publishing industry might not want them too.)<br /><br />I often buy books new. I see it as part of my duty to support that industry. Someone has to do it, or there will be far fewer new books. But, at the same time, libraries and used bookstores are Good Things. I bet if you went to Gabe and Tycho and told them it was immoral to go to a library, they would think you were an idiot and throw poo on you. But here they are taking this exact point of view for video games. Which are also works of art and media for distributing ideas. Honestly not sure what they are thinking here.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2010/08/yes-buying-used-games-doesnt-make-you.html">The Bottom Feeder</a></p>

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

The guy is mostly right. And you can't accuse him of having an angelic point of view while being financed by big money, the guy developed a fanbase that allows him to live correctly all by himself.
When I was younger and poorer I pirated his Exiles (would have gladly borrowed them at the public library if that was possible at the time) and now I buy all of his games even if I don't have the time to finish all of them for the guy deserves to be supported (it also helps that I don't find the art in his games absolutely horrible like a lot of people around here).

 

[Clockwork Knight]

1) go to law school

2) ignore the legal warnings on the books and copy them all

3)????

4)

------------

Anyway, I'm surprised that this needs to be said. Are there people who buy the companies' bullshit about "1 used game sold = -1 new game sold"?

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

He's not really saying that one used book=one book sold, he's just expanding on his piracy rant: if you're poor and don't have the means to buy books, video games or movies, it's better to pirate them or borrow them at a public library because it's better for society that everyone has access to culture and that it doesn't stay a rich guy's privilege. And if you can buy the stuff, do it to support the artists. It makes sense to me.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

He's betting on the good behaviour of everyone. Perhaps he'll finish miserably ripped-off but I don't think it will be the case because the guy's not doing popamole and has a coherent artistic universe and people like me will surely support him.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

He's not really saying that one used book=one book sold

I wasn't referring to him, just wondering if the reason he needs to all say that is because people believe that "borrowing / buying used is kinda like pirating" bs.

 

[Big Nick Digger]

Piracy is justified with all the bullshit these publishers are pulling with DLC. They're trying to use it as a tool to make people buy new games by excluding whole game modes, and as a tool to milk the shit out of games. I'm not gonna buy a 10mb costume pack for $5 when I can get it for free.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Ok, I misunderstood what you were saying. By the news snippet, it seems that Vogel was probably ranting about the idiots from Penny Arcade who seem to think that you shouldn't be able to buy a game second-hand or borrow it from a library for it was akin to piracy. I don't know a lot about Penny Arcade except that they're pretty dumb so it wouldn't surpise that they would make such a stupid statement.

You're right, second hand buying or borrowing from a library has nothing to do with piracy.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Piracy is justified with all the bullshit these publishers are pulling with DLC. They're trying to use it as a tool to make people buy new games by excluding whole game modes, and as a tool to milk the shit out of games. I'm not gonna buy a 10mb costume pack for $5 when I can get it for free.

And that is the archetype of greed: Bioware or Bethseda who try to milk every cent out of their fans will always condone with the fiercest terms a poor guy who can't afford to buy the crippled vanilla product while Vogel who does not suscribe to this shameless exploitation doesn't see the problem in you pirating him if you don't have the money to buy his games.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I bet if you went to Gabe and Tycho and told them it was immoral to go to a library, they would think you were an idiot and throw poo on you. But here they are taking this exact point of view for video games. Which are also works of art and media for distributing ideas. Honestly not sure what they are thinking here.

It's just that Gabe and Tycho are giant industry cock gobblers, and if they said getting stuff second-hand was okay they might not get another chance to draw a shitty promotional comic.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

And saying that a Bethesda or Bioware product costs a lot more in terms of financing is not a valid option for they would still fill their vault with enough money to last them a lifetime without this fucking shameless DLC scam. At least Blizzard gives its updates for free.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

That guy is pretty reasonable about these subjects as far as developers go.
I'll consider buying one of his Exile games when I'll have some money.

 

[DoomIhlVaria]

It's just that Gabe and Tycho are giant industry cock gobblers, and if they said getting stuff second-hand was okay they might not get another chance to draw a shitty promotional comic.

 

[Mastermind]

And saying that a Bethesda or Bioware product costs a lot more in terms of financing is not a valid option for they would still fill their vault with enough money to last them a lifetime without this fucking shameless DLC scam. At least Blizzard gives its updates for free.

I don't know about Bioware but Bethesda's Fallout 3 DLC have been pretty decent content wise. They ain't oblivion's horse armor. Point Lookout in particular was fantastic and I'd be more than happy to fork out 10 bucks for any DLC that adds that much content (and for once in the fallout universe, a decent if overly brief story).

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Piracy is justified with all the bullshit these publishers are pulling with DLC. They're trying to use it as a tool to make people buy new games by excluding whole game modes, and as a tool to milk the shit out of games. I'm not gonna buy a 10mb costume pack for $5 when I can get it for free.

If there was anything worth pirating, I would actually agree with this. The new model of internet Papa needing to be told in order to play a single player game, mixed with install limits, etc has driven me into the arms of Thirdworldia.

 

[Silellak]

I don't think anyone intelligent is arguing that buying used games is wrong, just that if you buy used, you aren't supporting the people who make the games you're buying. Some people care about that, others don't. There's really no moral weight behind that choice, though.

I also don't have any problem with game publishers offering exclusive content if you buy the game new. Why? Because they are rewarding their customers. If you buy a game used, you are no longer their customer, and they're not obligated to give you jack shit.

This is the comic that got the whole "conversation", such as it is, started:

 

[visions]

It's kind of depressing though that things like this even need to be said out and are not taken for granted by many.

Hell, I vaguely remember some fuck from Nintendo saying something along the lines of "people should not buy used games, it's like with books, you can't just go out and buy used books instead of new ones", or smth similarly retarded.

 

[Nickless]

Isn't there a distinction between the manufacturer and the retailer when it comes to support/responsibilities? At least in Australia under the trade practices act, the manufacturer has responsibilities to indirect customers (Although if memory serves that's more to do with product safety than anything else, at least it still serves to demonstrate a link/relationship between the manufacturer and the end user). Could be wrong, it's been a while.

 

[Sceptic]

You know, I'm starting to like Vogel* more and more.

But yeah it's kinda sad that this stuff even needs to be said. Thanks Jeff, but I already knew that my used copies didn't condemn me to an eternity of torment.

And I wouldn't worry too much about him being miserably ripped off. All his games are copy protected, they all required (or used to) registration and most people download them directly from him anyway so "second hand" sale isn't exactly possible under his model. And pirates who didn't touch his stuff won't suddenly start pirating his games "because he said so" - those who wanted to pirate them have already done it or would've done it anyway. He's just being realistic.

* as in what he says. Nothing to do with whether I like his games or not

 

[Andyman Messiah]

I LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT IMPORTANT NEWS ITEM CONCERNING COMMON SENSE!

 

[Silellak]

Isn't there a distinction between the manufacturer and the retailer when it comes to support/responsibilities? At least in Australia under the trade practices act, the manufacturer has responsibilities to indirect customers (Although if memory serves that's more to do with product safety than anything else, at least it still serves to demonstrate a link/relationship between the manufacturer and the end user). Could be wrong, it's been a while.

I imagine it depends largely on the product. For instance, I believe a used car will transfer its factory warranty on to the new owner.

However, games don't really have a warranty or anything similar. The closest comparable idea would be "patches", and so far, no publisher has restricted patches to only new game purchasers. If they did, it might be a murky legal area - I honestly have no idea. They are definitely in their rights to remove or restrict certain features in second-hand copies, though.

Look at ME2: Bioware/EA "gave away" quite a bit of "free" content to new game buyers. It was available to people who bought it used, but in the end it would actually cost more to buy the game used and purchase all of the "free" DLC, than to just buy the game new in the first place. I don't see anything wrong with that practice - customers have a right to buy used, and developers have a right to make it more appealing to buy the product new.

 

[Silellak]

What I find more interesting than the customer/publisher dynamic is the used-game-retailer/publisher dynamic. Places such as Gamestop essentially 'leech' off the gaming industry, since a large part of their profits come from a practice that by-definition ensures the creators of the products they sell don't get paid.

 

[Annonchinil]

From my experience most console kids trade in their games so they can buy the latest release new anyways.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

What I find more interesting than the customer/publisher dynamic is the used-game-retailer/publisher dynamic. Places such as Gamestop essentially 'leech' off the gaming industry, since a large part of their profits come from a practice that by-definition ensures the creators of the products they sell don't get paid.

They don't "leech" off the gaming industry - if anything, they "leech" of the gamers that trade in their games.

 

[Zomg]

Truckbombing publishers also doesn't make you a bad person.