Interview Matt Chat 244: Robert Sirotek on the Origins of Sir-Tech

[Infinitron]

Tags: Matt Barton; Robert Sirotek; Sir-Tech; Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord

The latest guest to be interviewed on Matt Barton's show is none other than Robert Sirotek, co-founder of Sir-Tech Software. In the first episode of the interview, Robert tells the story of Sir-Tech's founding, and how his family's chance acquaintance with a wunderkind by the name of Robert Woodhead (who was the son of his father's partner in the industrial resin business) led to the development of a database program called InfoTree, a real-time space game called Galactic Attack, and eventually, the first Wizardry.

​

Robert claims that Wizardry was the first boxed game ever. I wonder if that's really true. And sorry guys, no Stones of Arnhem stuff here yet. That's still more than a decade off.

 

[felipepepe]

Robert claims that Wizardry was the first boxed game ever. I wonder if that's really true.

He's joined by Richard Garriott, Joel Billing and half of the active developers at the time on that claim...

 

[Infinitron]

Robert claims that Wizardry was the first boxed game ever. I wonder if that's really true.

He's joined by Richard Garriott, Joel Billing and half of the active developers at the time on that claim...

Well, here's what my favorite authoritative source says: http://www.filfre.net/2012/03/making-wizardry/

Sir-tech spent the rest of that summer of 1981 making final preparations to release Wizardry at last. Here Frederick Sirotek made a vital contribution. Realizing from his own business experience how important an appearance of professionalism was and all too aware of the inadequate Info-Tree documentation, he insisted that Sir-tech put together a solid, attractive package for the game and make sure the manual “was readable by people without computer backgrounds.” From the embossed cover to the unusually lengthy, professionally-edited-and-typeset manual found within, Wizardry looked a class act, standing out dramatically from the Ziploc bags and amateurish artwork of the competition. Wizardry looked like something major.



The first pages of the manual reinforced the impression, even if their idea of what constitutes a huge, time-consuming game-development project sounds laughable today:

Wizardry is unlike any other game you have played on your Apple II computer. Using all the power and sophistication of the Pascal language, we have been able to create the most challenging fantasy war game available for any personal computer.

Wizardry is a huge program — in fact, at 14,000 lines of code, it may be the largest single microcomputer game ever created. The entire Wizardry game system, including the programs used to create the extensive Wizardry databases, comprises almost 25,000 lines of code, and is the result of over one man year of intensive effort.

The result is a game that simply could not have been written in BASIC. Wizardry has so many options and is so flexible that the only limits to the game are your imagination and ingenuity.​

In something of a coup, they were able to hire one Will McLean, who had done cartoons for Dragon magazine and The Dungeon Master’s Guide, to illustrate the manual.



McLean’s work gave Wizardry more than a whiff of the house style of TSR itself, a quality sure to be attractive to all of the tabletop D&D fans likely to play it. (Remarkably, TSR didn’t try to sue them for that one…)

It doesn't outright claim that it was the first box, but it was at least very impressive compared to the competition.

 

[Excidium]

That description of the game.

 

[felipepepe]

That was in 81; a year before SSI had released Computer Bismarck:

Inspired by Avalon Hill's games, Billings wanted SSI's games to look professional and include maps, detailed manuals, and excellent box art.

Garriott did it in 82, but also claim to be the first:

… I also then said, whichever company I go to, I want this box and manuals and cloth map. And basically every company put their hand down and said, well thank you Richard we’d love to work with you but not under those conditions. It was Ken and Roberta Williams who said, “sure we’ll do that for you.” So Ultima II went to sierra and Ultima II is the first game in the entire computer industry that was in a box, something other than a ziplock bag. Plus cloth map, which you see now in some other games.

Truth is, we'll never know...

 

[HobGoblin42]

Robert claims that Wizardry was the first boxed game ever. I wonder if that's really true.

It's definitely not true, Wizardry has been released in 1981 and I've got some older game boxes in my collection, for example: Dunjonquest: Temple of Apshai (Epyx, 1979) or Nukewar (Avalon Hill, 1980).

 

[Infinitron]

Robert claims that Wizardry was the first boxed game ever. I wonder if that's really true.

It's definitely not true, Wizardry has been released in 1981 and I've got some older game boxes in my collection, for example: Dunjonquest: Temple of Apshai (Epyx, 1979) or Nukewar (Avalon Hill, 1980).

Are you sure they're not rereleases, though?

 

[HobGoblin42]

Robert claims that Wizardry was the first boxed game ever. I wonder if that's really true.

It's definitely not true, Wizardry has been released in 1981 and I've got some older game boxes in my collection, for example: Dunjonquest: Temple of Apshai (Epyx, 1979) or Nukewar (Avalon Hill, 1980).

Are you sure they're not rereleases, though?

Yes, I am because I own the re-release of Asphai as well Different cover and copyright from 1983.

 

[HobGoblin42]

And beside others, the game 'Microsoft Adventure' has been published as box in 1979.

Look at those cool hipster devs and Bill Gates without glasses: http://www.filfre.net/2011/07/microsoft-adventure/

 

[Country_Gravy]

And beside others, the game 'Microsoft Adventure' has been published as box in 1979.

Look at those rich as fuck devs and Bill Gates without glasses: http://www.filfre.net/2011/07/microsoft-adventure/

Fixed that description for you a bit.

 

[Paul_cz]

True legend. It is cool that some of the greatest games in history came out of company with czech ancestry.
Just wish they were still in business, dammit
And that this video had subtitles, because I have a difficult time understanding all of it, with the sound quality and all that.

 

[Infinitron]

According to the Digital Antiquarian, the Siroteks were actually Jewish, although Robert didn't seem eager to mention it (you'd think he'd mention why his ancestor had to flee Czechoslovakia)

 

[HobGoblin42]

In 1998 or 1999, I've talked to one of them at some PR event for "Jagged Alliance 2" and my game "Knights and Merchants" here in Munich. But I can't remember who it was: Norman or John, I guess latter.

Another detail that I've almost forgot: on this party, I drank Whiskey-Colas with Ian Currie which turned out to be a very bad idea. I guess Currie's ancestors came from Scotland or Ireland, means at least 90% resistance vs Alcohol.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I drank Whiskey-Colas with Ian Currie which turned out to be a very bad idea. I guess Currie's ancestors came from Scotland or Ireland, means at least 90% resistance vs Alcohol.

If so, those Scottish ancestors will be haunting him for the sacrilege of adulterating good whisky with Cola. Most Scots I know won't even serve ice with whisky!

 

[Abelian]

Wizardry is unlike any other game you have played on your Apple II computer. Using all the power and sophistication of the Pascal language, we have been able to create the most challenging fantasy war game available for any personal computer.

It seems that even one of the earliest cRPG's referred to itself as a war game. Well-played, Servo, well-played.

 

[Servo]

:kwafuckyeah:

Also, computers did not call themselves computers they were MICROCOMPUTERS!!!!!

 

[tuluse]

Also, computers did not call themselves computers they were MICROCOMPUTERS!!!!!

Computer:

Microcomputer:

 

[Alchemist]

Wizardry is unlike any other game you have played on your Apple II computer. Using all the power and sophistication of the Pascal language, we have been able to create the most challenging fantasy war game available for any personal computer.

It seems that even one of the earliest cRPG's referred to itself as a war game. Well-played, Servo, well-played.

Of course it's a wargame...

Spoiler

 

[Abelian]

Wizardry is unlike any other game you have played on your Apple II computer. Using all the power and sophistication of the Pascal language, we have been able to create the most challenging fantasy war game available for any personal computer.

It seems that even one of the earliest cRPG's referred to itself as a war game. Well-played, Servo, well-played.

Of course it's a wargame...

Spoiler

That's what I was alluding to, in fact:

First of all, I've decided the "What is a CRPG?" discussion is pointless. In order to answer that question in any sane way, you have to first answer "What is an RPG?" But that discussion is equally pointless, because from what I've gathered there has never been a consensus among players.

OD&D did not call itself a "role playering game." The box cover says "rules for fantastic medieval wargames." The text itself refers to choosing a "role" as a combination of race and class: "players must decide what role they will play in the campaign, human or otherwise, fighter, cleric, or magic-user." What I can't figure out is who called this activity "role playing" first. It's misleading because it suggests that the player is an actor in a story, which is not what OD&D was actually about. It was just a game, and people played to win. Ron Edwards explained that the rules were revised and scattering among publications, so a lot of people made it up as they went, playing for make believe instead of to win. AD&D was Gary Gygax's response to this, which was not received well by those who were told they were playing it wrong.

 

[Excidium]

What sort of retard gives a shit about that

 

[Alchemist]

Wizardry is unlike any other game you have played on your Apple II computer. Using all the power and sophistication of the Pascal language, we have been able to create the most challenging fantasy war game available for any personal computer.

It seems that even one of the earliest cRPG's referred to itself as a war game. Well-played, Servo, well-played.

Of course it's a wargame...

Spoiler

That's what I was alluding to, in fact:

First of all, I've decided the "What is a CRPG?" discussion is pointless. In order to answer that question in any sane way, you have to first answer "What is an RPG?" But that discussion is equally pointless, because from what I've gathered there has never been a consensus among players.

OD&D did not call itself a "role playering game." The box cover says "rules for fantastic medieval wargames." The text itself refers to choosing a "role" as a combination of race and class: "players must decide what role they will play in the campaign, human or otherwise, fighter, cleric, or magic-user." What I can't figure out is who called this activity "role playing" first. It's misleading because it suggests that the player is an actor in a story, which is not what OD&D was actually about. It was just a game, and people played to win. Ron Edwards explained that the rules were revised and scattering among publications, so a lot of people made it up as they went, playing for make believe instead of to win. AD&D was Gary Gygax's response to this, which was not received well by those who were told they were playing it wrong.

Oh I see now. Heh.. I avoided that thread for some reason.

 

[4too]

Set Monocles For Stun




1950's-1970's, the war game 'hobby' embraced miniatures, board games, and guided adventures.

Aspiring to RAND Corporation delusions of grandeur, higher toned writers, marketers, propagandists evoked the word simulation,

and were likely to miss their general [mass] audience that would have had a clearer conception if war game was included in the labeling sales pitch.





4too

 

[Servo]

War games did not call themselves war games they were simulations of war games.

So CRPGs as we know them should actually be called MICROCOMPUTER SIMLUATIONS OF SIMULATIONS or MSSes for short.

 

[Jaesun]

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

ban Servo