Preview Idiotic Oblivion preview at CVG

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Bethesda Softworks; Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

<a href=http://www.computerandvideogames.com>Computer & Video Games</a> has posted a <a href=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/previews/previews_story.php?id=123620>preview/interview</a> with Todd Howard about <a href=http://www.elderscrolls.com/home/home.htm>Oblivion</a>, a game "casting an ominous shadow over the RPG genre with its innovative ideas"
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<blockquote>Morrowind was a work of genuine innovation, its freeform, dynamic - though at times intimidating - gaming world providing a fresh new approach to the fantasy RPG genre. So when we recently heard that Oblivion would be less freeform than its illustrious predecessor, we were naturally a tad nervous. Was Bethesda about to sell out on us or were there other, subtler, more refined reasons for making Oblivion less sprawling?
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The combat system has also received a complete overhaul. <u>How often in RPGs have you been left feeling like you've had little to do with victory, or had little chance to avert a crushing defeat, due to behind-the-scenes dice deciding your fate rather than personal skill? It's an age-old RPG problem</u>, but it's one that Howard and his team appear to be tackling with vigour and determination. The fact that two previous iterations of the new combat system are now lining Bethesda's bins is testament to that fact. "It took us a long time to get there, to find something that felt right and worked within an RPG," explains Howard.
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Bethesda is also attempting to reinvent how you'll level up, by dispensing with experience points and replacing them with a revamped system</blockquote>
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Who hires those morons to write idiotic articles on subjects they know nothing about?
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Thanks, <b>Screaming_life</b>

 

[Borys]

Guys the FASTER you accept that Oblivion is made FOR CONSOLE audience and FOR XBOX 360 first the BETTER.

Yeah, I love the Radiant AI but I still can't shake the feeling that lots of features (mounts, axes, xbows etc.) were cut to fit with the simpleminded console audience.

PC gamers are slowly being put on the sidetrack and there nothing we can do about it. I can't really fault Bethesda for that - the console version will easily outsell the PC one in 4:1 ratio.

Thank god Oblivion even comes out on the PC, although we still don't know if it comes later or sooner than 360 version.

 

[LlamaGod]

They've probably only played NeverWinter Nights and figured all RPGs use D&D's luck + stats system.

Making a game real-time isnt the way to FIX THAT AGE OLD PROBLEM, just make a good fucking character system.

And anyone who was intimidated by Morrowind deserves to be thrown into the sun. It is more linear then they think 'omg I can run to any town and look at things, FREEFORM!', too..

I'd like to see them try to play Ultima 7.

 

[Claw]

I find the constant praise for Morrowind's "freeform" gameplay slightly irritating.

I am not really much of an RPG expert.. I've really only played a sort of BestOf rather than any RPG I could lay hands on, but from those I did play, all the way back to a German Ultima clone on my C64, I've gotten the impression that freeform gameplay was standard RPG fare.
If you consider "you can ignore the main quest and go exploring instead" extremely freeform, anyway.

 

[Surlent]

For a change I think this review was very informative.

due to behind-the-scenes dice deciding your fate rather than personal skill? It's an age-old RPG problem,

He probably means how dice decides over player's choice. Like stat rolling in 2e DnD compared to point buy in 3e DnD. I don't see anything wrong in giving power to the player to make his characters instead of stroke of luck.

The next paragraph was interesting...

"We wanted combat to be fun and visceral, but we didn't want a click-fest. We wanted things to be under the player's control and make sense, such as swinging a sword, seeing it hit an NPC and having it inflict damage. But we also wanted to have the player's stats and abilities to have a very real impact on what's going on. I think we've found a balance that will make sense to anyone."

It will be interesting to see if it's like Bloodlines. Hopefully headshots will be in. Now if only I'd have a crossbow....

"So, killing a skeleton with your sword and shield doesn't give you 100 experience points, but it does improve your skill, more specifically, at using a sword and shield. As those skills improve, your character levels up, and you'll eventually be able to do new things with those skills.

So Oblivion will have classless skill based system ? Does anyone know if spell effects will get better animations ? Anyway seems like we will be staying at local inn casting cure spells a lot to powerlevel.

 

[Vault Dweller]

For a change I think this review was very informative.

due to behind-the-scenes dice deciding your fate rather than personal skill? It's an age-old RPG problem,

He probably means how dice decides over player's choice. Like stat rolling in 2e DnD compared to point buy in 3e DnD. I don't see anything wrong in giving power to the player to make his characters instead of stroke of luck.

What luck, really? If your skill is good enough, you almost always hit - equivalent of 75%+ chance to hit in Fallout, for example. If your skill is low (10% chance to hit) then it would take a fucking miracle for your to hit the target. Dice don't decide your fate, your character's skills do.

It will be interesting to see if it's like Bloodlines. Hopefully headshots will be in. Now if only I'd have a crossbow....

I don't think location damage is in. I recall a quote stating that they have no use for such a system in TES games.

So Oblivion will have classless skill based system ?

Huh? It's a TES game, what did you expect?

Does anyone know if spell effects will get better animations ? Anyway seems like we will be staying at local inn casting cure spells a lot to powerlevel.

That's how it worked in DF and MW.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Oblivion (like Morrowind) has classes that are defined by which skills you pick as "major" skills. When you choose your character's class (from a list of predefined classes or make your own), the major skills start at a higher level than the others. Your character has all of the skills -- but the ones that aren't major skills start out at lower levels. Some of them may be boosted from the base level depending upon the race you choose and perhaps your birthsign.

As you use skills, their levels advance. How much they advance depends on what you're doing with the skill and whether or not you were successful. When you have advanced your major skills enough, you level up. Leveling up gives you a chance to improve your base attributes (intelligence, strength, etc).

So your character's class is actually quite important.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So your character's class is actually quite important.

What you are actually saying is your major/minor skill set is very important, no?

I have a question for you. Does Oblivion use the same point distribution system as MW, i.e. you can increase 3 attributes, the increase points are already assigned to the attributes and depend on the increased skills that are under those attributes?

 

[merry andrew]

So your character's class is actually quite important.

What you are actually saying is your major/minor skill set is very important, no?

When you choose your character's class (from a list of predefined classes or make your own)

I think they mean the same thing.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I prefer or at least used to seeing classes as something distinctive and well defined.(no criticism here, just a fact): i.e. DnD classes, Wizardry classes, even Diablo 2 classes. In TES, at least until now, classes were no more than names of different combinations of skills coming from the same pool.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Yes, a "class" in Oblivion is a set of major skills.

Oblivion uses a similar point distribution when you level up to Morrowind's. When you level up, you pick whichever attributes you want to advance, and one or more attributes may have bonuses depending on the number of governing skills you've advanced since the last level.

 

[merry andrew]

I guess it's a 'happy medium' or whatever. TES games seem to have this 'well, do whatever you want' kind of vibe.

 

[Surlent]

Huh? It's a TES game, what did you expect?

Excuse me, I have only played Morrowind like 15 min from the start on a friend's comp, never picked Daggerfall because people at the time said it was full of bugs and Arena only seen screens on the net. So I'm not familiar with TES series, but all this coverage here in Codex has made me interested in Oblivion.

it would take a fucking miracle for your to hit the target. Dice don't decide your fate, your character's skills do.

Generally yes, but the random bit still comes from dice like critical hits instead of player choosing attack of opportunity when enemy is in vulnerable position.

As you use skills, their levels advance. How much they advance depends on what you're doing with the skill and whether or not you were successful. When you have advanced your major skills enough, you level up. Leveling up gives you a chance to improve your base attributes (intelligence, strength, etc).

So I can't level up through using skills that aren't selected as character's major skills ? I take there are limit caps for skills that aren't major depending on class/race/birthsign ? So a fighter can't switch to mage later (not that there's really need to) ?

 

[LordofFever]

well mr representative what about the game restricts it to make it "more linear" in following the storyline? and does this mean by choosing random skills you can again have amazing magic and swords and bow and all types of armor, because choice is one thing, but lets face it, there isn't enough time in the world to master everything so what was the point of that?

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Surlent, you can improve ALL of your skills, but it'll take a long time to get your minor skills up to high levels (not to mention it'll take a while to get them to levels where you'll be effective at them to begin with). But if you play long enough, sure, you can get them all to 100 and be a master at all of them.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Excuse me, I have only played Morrowind like 15 min from the start on a friend's comp, never picked Daggerfall because people at the time said it was full of bugs and Arena only seen screens on the net.

My bad. I assumed you've played at least MW.

So I'm not familiar with TES series, but all this coverage here in Codex has made me interested in Oblivion.

Beth should hire me to handle PR and promote the game

Generally yes, but the random bit still comes from dice like critical hits instead of player choosing attack of opportunity when enemy is in vulnerable position.

Critical hits always depend on luck due to their nature (massive damage enough to kill an opponent with one hit). That's how it was done in FO, DF, Wiz, etc. If it was otherwise, i.e. something like you described, such mechanics could be easily exploited - for example, an attack from behind always causes a critical hit, so players would start routinely moving characters behind enemies in combat scoring criticals every time.

So I can't level up through using skills that aren't selected as character's major skills ?

Major and minor. 10 skills.

I take there are limit caps for skills that aren't major depending on class/race/birthsign ?

Not that I recall

So a fighter can't switch to mage later (not that there's really need to) ?

It's not that complicated.

There are 21 skills in Oblivion. You pick 5 major skills, 5 minor skills, the rest are misc (develop slowly). Let's say you are playing a fighter, so you pick Blade, Block, Heavy Armor - that's all it takes to be a fighter. Throw in Repair if you care, but the money aint a problem so you can pay for that. That leaves a lot of room for magic skills or sneaking/stealing/lockpicking. Like I said money wasn't a problem in MW, so you could train all skills at guilds and such. One of the complaints was that all characters were the same by mid-game: Fighter/Mage/Thief. Now that they have less skills (instead of Short Sword and Long Sword there is one Blade skill, etc), I assume that problem will be even more noticable.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

There are 21 skills, but your numbers & combinations of major vs other skills are off. More on that later. We've also changed training and taken other steps to try to keep "class" important through more of the game. Hopefully it will be LESS of a problem.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Interesting. So, when's "later"? When that Xbox mag is released?

 

[LordofFever]

so you can still master everything but through traiing only, not buying lessons?

 

[Naked_Lunch]

I'd like to see them try to play Ultima 7.

I have with me some substanstial evidence that tells me that if they did indeed try to play Ultima 7, they're brains might explode in a flaming burst.

Let's send 'em a copy.

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

Oblivion uses a similar point distribution when you level up to Morrowind's. When you level up, you pick whichever attributes you want to advance, and one or more attributes may have bonuses depending on the number of governing skills you've advanced since the last level.

I'm disappointed with that system when I was playing Morrowind. I was always tempted to min/max my attributes by training, say, my speachcraft skill by 10 points, my heavy armour skill by 10 points and a major or minor skill like Enchanting by another 10 points. If you don't min/max your training to get that golden 15 attribute points per level than anything less would be considered a loss. If you changed your system to only give you, say, 6 attribute points per level to spend at your descretion regardless of what skills you levelled up then I wouldn't have to worry about running all over the Empire to level up my skills to make the most use out of my levels.

Like I said money wasn't a problem in MW, so you could train all skills at guilds and such. One of the complaints was that all characters were the same by mid-game: Fighter/Mage/Thief.

There was a Mage and Thief class in Morrowind? I hardly noticed. On a serious note all my characters eventually turn into a dai katana weilding fighter. To play a mage meant getting the Atronach (sp?) sign and getting trained in Conjuring to cast a six second ghost to rejuice your mana. Even then a powerful fireball couldn't oneshot enemies like a dai katana can.

And what is there to diffentriate a thief from a fighter? Even in Morrowind when I made a fighter character (Long Sword + Heavy Armour) I usually gave him a lock picking skill as a major skill, nonetheless. Along with alchemy, unarmoured, repair, athletics, acrobatics and sneaking. Throw mysticism or restoration in just for giggles.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There was a Mage and Thief class in Morrowind? I hardly noticed.

I meant a guy with a big sword who can pick locks and cast spells

 

[vazquez595654]

Hold up this is a serious question.

Are there still mounts in Oblivion or have they been taken out?

And if they have can someone post a link to where Bethesda has announced it?

 

[Vault Dweller]

You can ride a horsie but you can't fight while you are on it. Like in Daggerfall.

 

[vazquez595654]

Honestly it does seem that Oblivion is catering to the console audience given the features like the quest compass (so you don't have to think) and full speech( so you don't have to read).

It seems similar to what happened with Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3. I had mad respect for Warren Spector before that...now I hope he just learned his lesson.

As a gamer I am of course disappointed but as a businessman I would say Bethesda is doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing; going after the money (aka the console audience). This makes sense because after all its a business not charity. Bethesda doesn't love games for the love of games, Bethesda loves games because they love money.

They are even still trying to sell the game to PC gamers which is also a good marketing strategy because lets face the facts most of us are going to buy the game hoping that there is some redeeming value in it.

I guess the only hope is Gothic 3. It looks better and better and the somewhat recent news that it will be less linear certainly makes it more enticing. Although if it sells well then I can only imagine Gothic 4 will follow the same fate as Oblivion.