AoD town

[spacemoose]

Adapting to the terrain is simply unRoman. They bent nature to their will, not the other way around. Roman roads always went straight, if there was a mountain in the way, they either buit over it or through it, never around. If there was a body of water in the way, the Romans donned their aqualungs(TM) and built underneath the waves.

 

[LCJr.]

Roman camps and campaign forts were temporary. Roman forts were permenant and made of stone.

Thinking a bit more and you're lacking a hospital, parade ground, graveyard, granaries, warehouses and stables. Taking a look at some of the Roman forts in Britain and what became of them after the legions left might yield some ideas.

 

[Andrej]

As I see it, it all depends on how long since it was a military camp. I believe that more of it should still be as it was when it was a military camp, especially if it was made out of stone at the time, stone does not decay or move itself, after all.

As a military camp I believe that building placement would be symmetrical inside the walls with large barracks and an open area facing the main building, so that different drills and such could be carried out inside of the walls.

A food store (not one where you buy, but where it is stored) would also be needed in a camp, seeing as how it is fortified and perhaps expected to be able to survive small sieges. A well or aqueduct should perhaps be present, should the town/camp be self sufficient. The walls serve no point unless defenders can survive inside for a longer time.


Looking at it now I have trouble believing it once could have been a military camp. That's my main concern. Perhaps you could sketch an idea of how it looked as a pure military camp on a napkin and then go from there, instead of placing all the buildings now and then looking backwards to make up a reason for it.

Don't forget to put up a small shantytown just outside the gates for the really dirt poor, I’d love that. The player is greeted by misery and suffering even before he/she enters the town. This ofcourse is diffrent depending on what the population of the town is.

 

[FrancoTAU]

-The columns are fine.

-I wouldn't add more buildings unless their is some substance to those added NPCs/Buildings. A town full of 90% generic NPCs isn't all that fun to explore. Baldur's Gate was a huge city, but mostly boring to explore due to the overly generic nature of it. I'd rather have the dozen well fleshed out NPCs in an Ultima VII town than getting a Baldur's Gate.

-The only real criticism that i'm 100% in support of changing i would say is the hole in the walls by the Rich Areas. It would be odd that the rich people don't feel the need to be secure.

-The shantytown outside the city is a nice idea if the world is peaceful.

 

[Slylandro]

I think that the distance between the poor section of the town and the rich section is alright considering it's a relatively small town / military camp at any rate. I do think that there should be some sort of physical delimiter to more clearly separate the poor section of the town and say the Merchant's guild however-- it seems highly improbable that they would allow themselves to be put this close to the poor and not have at the very least a wall or fence or something of that sort. A gate with guards (I like your clever choice putting the Imperial guard barracks so close to the poor section, btw) in the middle of the fence would maybe make sense too. The assassin's guild strikes me as sort of out of place-- are these assassins affiliated with the military, or if not, can it be inferred that assassination is a legal occupation in the gameworld? Also, as someone pointed out, how old the camp is and if it was built upon a previous city/ruins/etc are important parts of determining if the camp looks right.

 

[chaedwards]

Going against the trend of this thread, I'd say that it's great, and that you should concentrate on the gameplay issues above trying to make the town realistic. One thing I hate in games is a massive number of houses that are there for no reason apart from window-dressing and have generic npcs inside who don't say anything sensible to say. Keep all the stuff necessary to house the characters in the game, and facilitate what will actually make the town feel alive - interaction, rumours and things to do.

Oh, and it looks pretty nice.

 

[Andrej]

Going against the trend of this thread, I'd say that it's great, and that you should concentrate on the gameplay issues above trying to make the town realistic. One thing I hate in games is a massive number of houses that are there for no reason apart from window-dressing and have generic npcs inside who don't say anything sensible to say. Keep all the stuff necessary to house the characters in the game, and facilitate what will actually make the town feel alive - interaction, rumours and things to do.

Oh, and it looks pretty nice.

I agree to most of that, but the camp doesnt look to me as if it was a military camp. The planning and layout doesnt convince me.

But yes, gameplay over town realism, agreed.

 

[Section8]

<roof textures>

Oops, i didn't quite explain myself properly. My issue is that the buildings in the poor quarter look as though they've become worn and run down in exactly the same places, and random damage shouldn't look so uniform. And I'm aware that the buildings have meshes that have different damage to them, but the textures kind of ruin that effect.

The middle class rooves are better, because there isn't so much contrast, so repeating patterns aren't as noticeable. And speaking of contrast, the outer walls don't have much definition of the bricks and stones that make them up. Up close they look like a natural rock face with a few almost brick-like strata.

But really, those points are just nitpicking, and I think a lot of the other suggestions being made are more worthwhile, with respect to the layout and further defining the setting (scaffolds etc.)

 

[corvax]

Switch the Middle Area with the Poor Area. It makes more sense to have the Middle and the Rich closer with a Merchant's guild right in between them...everything else is just nitpicking.

How big are other towns though? This one is pretty small areawise, adding a shantytown would definitely be nice. Having said that, are you guys still shooting for Summer '06? Seems like there's still plenty of work left.

 

[Drain]

I found what puzzles me about the town. It's strange to see so much stratification in such a small town. Wouldn't rich ones migrate to larger cities or at least build villas outside the city? If they are a part of the city government (which would be reasonable to expect) why wouldn't they occupy palace, which seems large enough to lodge half of the town? We can expect that innkeeper/merchant/blacksmith, etc. would be relatively rich, but they are likely to live in the houses where they conduct their business.
So who are those people living in the rich area?

Also an assassins' guild in a settlement with 50-60 people looks strange, to say the least. I know, I'm nitpicking and I agree that gameplay issues are more important, but it would be nice to see logically built town.

How important is this town and how close is it to any "serious" settlements? How populated is the adjacent area? Does any traderoute go through the town? If not, how many merchants are there(in the merchant guild)?

 

[kingcomrade]

Sometimes I'm trying to hard to be funny.

 

[Drain]

How come he haven't been dumbfucked yet?

 

[FrancoTAU]

Because he's funny half the time. Half might be generous, but still he's pretty funny at times

Assassin Guild in a town of 60 is fine. Do you really want a real world scale of 100s of houses and a 1000 boring ass generic NPCs so that the town makes sense? I don't, it's a scaled down town so an assassin's guild should be fine. I mean, we could nitpick every good RPG about why it has 6 stores in a town of 20 who couldn't possibly support those respective businesses.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wouldn't rich ones migrate to larger cities ...

Many towns have been destroyed during the war; there is are few places that are in much better shape; and last, but not the least, they are a part of this particular Noble House, that has once governed a province, but now has nothing left but this town. (will be explained in the game in more details).

...or at least build villas outside the city?

Not safe. The broken walls aint the best defense, but it's easier for many town people to defend a few breaches, then for a few people to defend a house/villa outside the walls. We will fix a few breaches though.

... which seems large enough to lodge half of the town?

Will be redone. I agree with most comments, it just doesn't fit.

Also an assassins' guild in a settlement with 50-60 people looks strange, to say the least. I know, I'm nitpicking and I agree that gameplay issues are more important, but it would be nice to see logically built town.

The population of this town is much larger than 50-60 people. I can easily make it large enough for you to believe that it has at least 500 people. Would that be fun for you? This town is a representation, not an exact replica. Obviously, it's ridiculous to think that a rich area consists of 3 buildings, but I don't think that a player would enjoy a trip to a 50-villa neighbourhood.

As for the assassins, yes, it's not the best location, but people need killing even in small places. It's a small "office", not a fully blown hall with hundreds of employees.

How important is this town and how close is it to any "serious" settlements?

It's one of the 3 key towns, you've seen the concept art for the other 2. They are much larger.

How populated is the adjacent area?

Few people here and there.

Does any traderoute go through the town? If not, how many merchants are there(in the merchant guild)?

Yes. As for the second question, the structure is different, it's not your typical place where merchants come and trade. Overall, there are 12 people in the guild in this town.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Switch the Middle Area with the Poor Area. It makes more sense to have the Middle and the Rich closer with a Merchant's guild right in between them...everything else is just nitpicking.

Will do

How big are other towns though?

Much larger than this one.

... adding a shantytown would definitely be nice.

Will do, that was a good idea

Having said that, are you guys still shooting for Summer '06? Seems like there's still plenty of work left.

Of course, there is plenty of work, but so far it seems doable. It took 7 weeks to make this town, including detailed interiors of every building. A lot of stuff could be reused.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thinking a bit more and you're lacking a hospital, parade ground, graveyard, granaries, warehouses and stables. Taking a look at some of the Roman forts in Britain and what became of them after the legions left might yield some ideas.

I know, I've seen them, but again, would it be fun for players to visit those ubar realistic locations? We assume they are there somewhere, we just don't give a damn where exactly.

 

[Vault Dweller]

-I wouldn't add more buildings unless their is some substance to those added NPCs/Buildings.

Anything that adds something is already in.

A town full of 90% generic NPCs isn't all that fun to explore. Baldur's Gate was a huge city, but mostly boring to explore due to the overly generic nature of it. I'd rather have the dozen well fleshed out NPCs in an Ultima VII town than getting a Baldur's Gate.

My sentiments exactly.

-The only real criticism that i'm 100% in support of changing i would say is the hole in the walls by the Rich Areas. It would be odd that the rich people don't feel the need to be secure.

Agree, will be fixed

-The shantytown outside the city is a nice idea if the world is peaceful.

Not overly peaceful, but the shantytown residents don't have much choice in that matter.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The assassin's guild strikes me as sort of out of place-- are these assassins affiliated with the military, or if not, can it be inferred that assassination is a legal occupation in the gameworld?

Absolutely 100% legal. A very practical and cost-effective way to solve disputes.

Also, as someone pointed out, how old the camp is...

About 500 years old.

Anyway, I don't have time to reply to all posts, but I appreciate your comments & suggestions. We'll tweak it, as usual, and post an updated version in a week or two. Thanks.

 

[LCJr.]

Not safe. The broken walls aint the best defense, but it's easier for many town people to defend a few breaches, then for a few people to defend a house/villa outside the walls. We will fix a few breaches though.

It'd be easier still to cut down some trees and build a stockade or pile up some rocks so there weren't any breaches. No wonder they got wiped out if they're too stupid or lazy to even half ass repair the walls.

 

[RGE]

-The shantytown outside the city is a nice idea if the world is peaceful.

Not overly peaceful, but the shantytown residents don't have much choice in that matter.

No, but the military inside the city wouldn't want a shantytown right outside the gates in case of attackers using it against them, and the military do have a choice. But maybe they'd have enough warning before an attack to burn the shanties down? Or use the building materials to fix the breaches in the walls. If the walls are still worth having instead of being turned into houses, then some houses would be worth demolishing in order to fill in the gaps in the wall. People can live in wooden houses, so stone should go to the walls before going to houses. Surely at least one ruler would've gotten that done since the war?

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Layouts a bit too orderly - its more like a camp than an organically grown town - unless of course that's what you want to convey.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yep. It used to be a military camp (read the first page, if you care)