Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting

[Nikanuur]

Gamepass is great precisely because it's costing Microsoft shitloads of money that they won't recoup. Them abandoning the gaming industry will collapse the AAA scene and normies will flock elsewhere. Incline will reign.

I'm sad to say it but this is pipe dreams. Idiots are not going to go away. If there is demand, supply will emerge to satisfy that demand. If it's not Microsoft it will be someone else.

This is backwards. AAA games don't exist because there's a demand. They exist, and so marketing departments drum up the demand.

gamerbrain shitwit cope take

Actually, you are not correct, and Butter is to a large degree (or very likely is).
If you only went to see any training for a businessman and minded the first thing on their list, you would also know that their trade isn't about appealing to a demand but instead about creating a need (where there is none initially).
And if my word is not enough (I doubt you will do what I said anyway—I know, I wouldn't), then go see the Wolf of Wall Street movie. It's got many good pointers on what naivity is and how money, or supply'n'demand, actually works. (not saying you are naive; I am saying that in a general sense of the meaning.).
Actually, you know what? Here's the famous gist of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UspZGJ-TrI

 

[AwesomeButton]

The problem is, the quality expectations of AAA have been constantly rising, while developer steadily declined at the same time. This led to a lot of games with AAA budgets but without AAA quality that don't manage to grab the attention of the large casual group and end up underperforming.

It's an inequation where boths sides seek equilibrium. Deliver the optimal volume and quality to get the best profit. If AAA is too good, we'll gradually raise prices and optimize the dev process which will end up reducing the quality, until there is pushback. Then we'll make concessions until we arrive at a good deal again.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Actually, you are not correct, and Butter is to a large degree (or very likely is).
If you only went to see any training for a businessman and minded the first thing on their list, you would also know that their trade isn't about appealing to a demand but instead about creating a need (where there is none initially).
And if my word is not enough (I doubt you will do what I said anyway—I know, I wouldn't), then go see the Wolf of Wall Street movie. It's got many good pointers on what naivity is and how money, or supply'n'demand, actually works. (not saying you are naive; I am saying that in a general sense of the meaning.).
Actually, you know what? Here's the famous gist of it:

It's of no consequence whether demand exists and supply rises to meet it, or if demand is artificially "fostered" beforehand. The demand still exists. Exploiting human nature vs fighting human nature, which would be more successful?

 

[Delterius]

i need to go back in time and kill the first person to ask wether the chicken or the egg came first

 

[lukaszek]

i need to go back in time and kill the first person to ask wether the chicken or the egg came first

interesting problem as you will have to keep going back in time. Find the guy, beat him/persuade to point the finger at source, travel back, repeat.
Quickly language will become a barrier. Eventually species might change(it no longer being about chicken).
You might have to limit this search a bit. Do you focus on english language? Homo sapiens? Chicken? What is a chicken in this context?
What if you find the source but it was local minimum, as in there exists at least 1 point in past when something, somewhere articulated such problem?

Maybe its easier to solve problem at its source - by eliminating the problem in first place: find the egg laid by animal that was not yet the chicken.
But then it might not be that easy as you will change the future and another chicken will emerge, like with crabs?
Maybe lets start from beginning in that fantasy of yours: how does time flow? Can you change past or you just jump to another parallel world? If you stop chicken from being born, how many bloodlines 2 will get released?

 

[Hobknobling]

i need to go back in time and kill the first person to ask wether the chicken or the egg came first

interesting problem as you will have to keep going back in time. Find the guy, beat him/persuade to point the finger at source, travel back, repeat.
Quickly language will become a barrier. Eventually species might change(it no longer being about chicken).
You might have to limit this search a bit. Do you focus on english language? Homo sapiens? Chicken? What is a chicken in this context?
What if you find the source but it was local minimum, as in there exists at least 1 point in past when something, somewhere articulated such problem?

Maybe its easier to solve problem at its source - by eliminating the problem in first place: find the egg laid by animal that was not yet the chicken.
But then it might not be that easy as you will change the future and another chicken will emerge, like with crabs?
Maybe lets start from beginning in that fantasy of yours: how does time flow? Can you change past or you just jump to another parallel world? If you stop chicken from being born, how many bloodlines 2 will get released?

 

[user]

One thing is for sure - if marketing didn't affect demand at all, we would be getting much better products.

 

[AwesomeButton]

When speaking about entertainment specifically, I guess the idea that demand is manufactured is as true as it could be. Entertainment as a service is extremely prone to substitution. If there were no AAA games, watch movies, watch tv shows, read a novel. There are people for whom reading the Bible is all the entertainment they would ever need. Everything else has to be manufactured for them to find they have a need for it.

 

[AwesomeButton]

For my decision-making, I'm trying to answer the question "Is this game showing me anythjng I haven't seen before?" This is in the context of narrative - comprising worldbuilding, story, characters, branching and quest structure. Then in the context of RPG mechanics - combat and non-combat build possibilities, encounter and enemy design. Then exploration.

To use an example - I don't need to play AssCreed Odyssey if I've played Origins. I likely don't even need to play Origins past the point of reaching Alexandria. It simply offers nothing past the 20th or so hour of playing. Similarly, I'm not satisfied with Avowed if having played ToW makes playing Avoid completely redundant.

I understand the desire of corporations to stuff "content" into my brain endlessly, so that I keep paying for more, but it doesn't enrich nor entertain me to watch all the Fast & Furious movies.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

The value of gamepass to corporate isn't the subscription monies its leveraging the subs and IPs into investment products. It's an example of rent seeking and ultimately a race to the bottom. Gamepass will only ever be a dumping ground for garbage. Even first party titles can't be launched there forever, because it's just throwing money away. See also: Disney plus, where first party titles are either removed due to not wanting to pay royalties or aren't launched on the service because it's lost revenue.

The shift in Microsoft to an Indian company also eliminates any romanticism attached to the Xbox brand.

 

[Removal]

Microsoft may exit the gaming business if Game Pass subscribers doesn’t increase enough by 2027.

God willing they will miss their target and shut down all their acquisitions

Given the new round of layoffs, 10% of their gaming division, there's gonna be heads rolling on non-successful products moving into the future

 

[agris]

Gamepass is great precisely because it's costing Microsoft shitloads of money that they won't recoup. Them abandoning the gaming industry will collapse the AAA scene and normies will flock elsewhere. Incline will reign.

I'm sad to say it but this is pipe dreams. Idiots are not going to go away. If there is demand, supply will emerge to satisfy that demand. If it's not Microsoft it will be someone else.

This is backwards. AAA games don't exist because there's a demand. They exist, and so marketing departments drum up the demand.

you're getting torched by the button brigade, but this is exactly how the entertainment industry works. that's the playbook for big movie releases, and why marketing is such a huge part of the budget, they need to create the demand.

 

[Delterius]

you fuckers. its all concomitant. both things exist at the same time and are also interdependent

 

[Butter]

Gamepass is great precisely because it's costing Microsoft shitloads of money that they won't recoup. Them abandoning the gaming industry will collapse the AAA scene and normies will flock elsewhere. Incline will reign.

I'm sad to say it but this is pipe dreams. Idiots are not going to go away. If there is demand, supply will emerge to satisfy that demand. If it's not Microsoft it will be someone else.

This is backwards. AAA games don't exist because there's a demand. They exist, and so marketing departments drum up the demand.

you're getting torched by the button brigade, but this is exactly how the entertainment industry works. that's the playbook for big movie releases, and why marketing is such a huge part of the budget, they need to create the demand.

And we wouldn't have woke shit shoved down our throats from every angle if it were a result of demand. The creators create shit and then rely on marketing to make us think we want it. "Look how badass this negro woman is! She just moved shit with her mind!"

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Speaking of rpg mechanics, I'm just sick of the Diablo 2 skill tree, the most creatively bankrupt leveling system that won't fucking die.

Please, just do something else. ANYTHING. Learn new skills by finding fortune cookies or something, I don't care.

 

[Ibn Sina]

Game looks absolute trash. Don't know who are they are designing the game for exactly? Certainly not for the RPG crowd with the lack of classes, races and companion approval system. It will not be for the romance fags and sex starved whales either with lack of romances. It will not be for the graphics whores crowd with their abysmal plastic cartoonish graphics. Not for the combat fags either with that floaty shit combat they showed off.

So it begs the question who is this game designed for?

 

[Readher]

So it begs the question who is this game designed for?

Obsidiots who act as if New Vegas came out one year ago.

 

[jackofshadows]

Gay pass slaves.

 

[Roguey]

Game looks absolute trash. Don't know who are they are designing the game for exactly? Certainly not for the RPG crowd with the lack of classes, races and companion approval system. It will not be for the romance fags and sex starved whales either with lack of romances. It will not be for the graphics whores crowd with their abysmal plastic cartoonish graphics. Not for the combat fags either with that floaty shit combat they showed off.

So it begs the question who is this game designed for?

Feargus Urquhart, as always.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Game looks absolute trash. Don't know who are they are designing the game for exactly? Certainly not for the RPG crowd with the lack of classes, races and companion approval system. It will not be for the romance fags and sex starved whales either with lack of romances. It will not be for the graphics whores crowd with their abysmal plastic cartoonish graphics. Not for the combat fags either with that floaty shit combat they showed off.

So it begs the question who is this game designed for?

Feargus Urquhart, as always.

Some shit taste he has.

 

[Delterius]

there's something poetic about how feargus only got to make his skyrim killer by the time it was dead of old age

 

[Atlantico]

Avowed is following in Skyrim's footsteps by removing attributes, which makes it less of an RPG than Diablo.

Sawyer didn't even want to include attributes in Pillars of Eternity and only did so under duress because they promised an Infinity Engine nostalgia title. Avowed with its classless, attributeless system is truer to what Sawyer wanted than what he was forced to deliver.

That's a very elaborate way of saying Josh Sawyer's ideal RPG design consists of ripping off Todd Howard's work, but okay.

It's what they did in Dragon Age Inquisition. Josh wanted to copy Mark Darrah

 

[Yosharian]

I just watched part of the deep dive video and holy fucking shit this looks like utter trash. Like my expectations were fucking low but wow

 

[Tehdagah]

The value of gamepass to corporate isn't the subscription monies its leveraging the subs and IPs into investment products. It's an example of rent seeking and ultimately a race to the bottom. Gamepass will only ever be a dumping ground for garbage. Even first party titles can't be launched there forever, because it's just throwing money away. See also: Disney plus, where first party titles are either removed due to not wanting to pay royalties or aren't launched on the service because it's lost revenue.

The shift in Microsoft to an Indian company also eliminates any romanticism attached to the Xbox brand.

And it's still good to pay a monthly small fee and be able to play a lot of games without paying the full price for them.

 

[Roguey]

Some shit taste he has.

It's been alleged.

To be fair, though, Feargus didn’t interfere with the stories and RPG vision all the time (and Parker mostly brought his touch to UI and game systems, which only usually hurt me resource-wise). Darren and Jones didn't care. You also had to pull teeth from all of them to actually play the games the studio was making.

One unspoken time-consuming part of the story process, however, was that we’d get reading recommendations from Feargus – I won’t name the books, but he’d give us a fantasy or sci-fi book he had read that he really liked, which was universally many hours of your life you wouldn’t get back.

I went through with reading them because I was genuinely trying to figure out what elements of these stories Feargus actually liked, because it confounded me – they were all terrible.

Eventually, I realized I couldn’t figure out why he liked this shit, and whenever he’d try and loan me a book, I’d just tell him “no worries, I can get it on my Kindle.”

Okay, I guess I can't stop. So another issue with the books is that, at times, Feargus will inflict his story preferences on teams. When this happens, as a Creative Director it is helpful for me to try and ascertain where these story preferences came from and if necessary, argue against them, using the the same books that are upheld as shining pinnacles of inspiring storylines but yet cause brain tumors within seconds to people reading them. This was my job, and why I read these books - to use the very material to argue why we shouldn't do something that undermined the story experience.

Books do seem "minor," but in this context, it was to protect the game stories at the studio when I could. I didn't always succeed, as indicated by the DS4 example (again, the pitch failed partly b/c Square-Enix didn't want to work with us again).