Elder Scrolls Early Elder Scrolls Appreciation Thread (FUN THREAD, NO ARGUMENTS)

[Lemming42]

I've just finished my first proper full playthrough of Battlespire. I've tried to play it many times before and often made it pretty far in, but always eventually bounced off the jankiness. I've finally gotten through it and it's fantastic! When you get over the clunkiness, the dungeons are varied and full of stuff to explore, the dialogue is superb, and the plot is a perfect mix of surrealism, comedy, and dark fantasy. My favourite level was the one that takes place on a High Rock island that's been thrown into space, and on which there's an island-wide manhunt with you as the prey, which culminates with you turning the hunt against your pursuers. You can even be a complete dickhead and ring the victory bell that they intended to ring to signal your death.

It's made me want to replay Redguard too, which has a similar tone, and that got me thinking about making a thread for anyone who loves this era of The Elder Scrolls as much as I do. This isn't a thread to complain about the later games and bemoan the fate of the series or w/e, I like Morrowind and Skyrim and I think Oblivion is the funniest thing ever made, but for me there's something really special about that early run of pre-MW games - Arena, Daggerfall, Battlespire and Redguard. The setting is far more surreal and has a much better sense of humour, especially in Redguard and Battlespire, and it all has a feeling of eerie weirdness in a way that the later games lack, especially when the setting turns into Shit Middle Earth in Oblivion and Fantasy Vikings in Skyrim.

I think the concept of smaller, more focused games (like Battlespire) or action-adventure games (like Redguard) in the Elder Scrolls setting is a great idea. I wonder why Bethesda don't seize that chance now, instead of constantly pissing about teasing TESVI and not working on it.

Here's a primer for anyone who wants to play or revisit these games:

ARENA - Do you have what it takes to stop a drag queen from taking over the world? Your only ally is a ghost who's fading by the minute and consumes some of her waning power just to communicate with you, and if either one of you die, it's all over. Have fun!

DAGGERFALL - In the aftermath of a grim regional war, you're sent to investigate the mysterious death of a former king (who is now a wraith who won't stop killing random people in the street at night) and recover a letter sent by the Emperor that went missing. On this journey, you'll get verbally abused by the ruling class, get used as a pawn in pretty much everyone's political machinations, meet Sexy Babes, meet Hot Hunks, probably drown a couple of times, and eventually find yourself alone in the cold depths of outer space. You also get shot out of a giant crossbow.

BATTLESPIRE - Oh no!! The Battlespire, a training ground for mages, has been taken over by Mehrunes Dagon and is flying off into space! You're trapped aboard and will have to Die Hard your way through various floors as well as numerous Daedric planes on your quest to save your captured friend and make it home. On the way, you get to speak to every enemy you encounter and usually hit them with some incredibly 1990s insults.

REDGUARD - Set in the past during the time of Tiber Septim, you play as a Redguard crook who winds up taking a stand against the fascist Imperials, mostly because your sister's already leading the charge and you just kind of tend to go along with things. To rid Stros M'Kai of the Imperials, you have to meet a Sload necromancer, get transformed into a goblin, stab Tiber Septim's pet dragon in the eye, mend your shattered relationship with your sister (whose soul has been torn from her body), and meet Clavicus Vile's dog who keeps shape-shifting into a distorted version of your own face. You also kill Jeff Baker about 150 times.

There's also shit like Shadowkey that nobody's ever played. Is Shadowkey good? I bet it's good.

 

[Dark Souls II]

I was always interest in Redguard but never actually played it. Looks very comfy to me, reminds me of this certified nigga classic:

 

[deuxhero]

Redguard bombed because it released next to Half Life. That's why they never did anything with it. From what I recall, Morrowind not failing is why TES isn't just a series of weird 90s games people think were pretty alright but a bit jank.

 

[Lemming42]

It seems to me like now would be the perfect time to reintroduce that kind of game - it's quicker to develop, it lets you use TES "lore" as a selling point (which gets everyone rock hard) in a way that's harder with the main games, and it lets them pump money out of the IP without having to actually make TES VI. They could even farm it out to another team if they wanted it to turn out good.

 

[markec]

I am of a strong belief that Battlespire is one of the most underrated games ever made.

When you look past bugs it's a great dungeon crawler with top notch atmosphere.

 

[goregasm]

Battlespire was pretty cool. Never played red guard. Never will.

 

[Stella Brando]

I don't know if Daggerfall is still the best one, but it blew us away in the 90's —— and there's still been nothing else like it.

 

[deuxhero]

It seems to me like now would be the perfect time to reintroduce that kind of game - it's quicker to develop, it lets you use TES "lore" as a selling point (which gets everyone rock hard) in a way that's harder with the main games, and it lets them pump money out of the IP without having to actually make TES VI. They could even farm it out to another team if they wanted it to turn out good.

MS should have started one of their studios on a Battlespire or Shadowkey remake as soon as it was clear Bethesda would not be releasing TES6 in the next 3+ years. They just need better graphics (not even anything particularly high, just not "early 3D" tier) functional FPP action RPG stapled onto them to be great.

 

[markec]

It seems to me like now would be the perfect time to reintroduce that kind of game - it's quicker to develop, it lets you use TES "lore" as a selling point (which gets everyone rock hard) in a way that's harder with the main games, and it lets them pump money out of the IP without having to actually make TES VI. They could even farm it out to another team if they wanted it to turn out good.

MS should have started one of their studios on a Battlespire or Shadowkey remake as soon as it was clear Bethesda would not be releasing TES6 in the next 3+ years. They just need better graphics (not even anything particularly high, just not "early 3D" tier) functional FPP action RPG stapled onto them to be great.

Personally I'm surprised that MS didn't already announce New Vegas remake. That would be easy money and would gather a lot of good will.

 

[Yosharian]

It seems to me like now would be the perfect time to reintroduce that kind of game - it's quicker to develop, it lets you use TES "lore" as a selling point (which gets everyone rock hard) in a way that's harder with the main games, and it lets them pump money out of the IP without having to actually make TES VI. They could even farm it out to another team if they wanted it to turn out good.

MS should have started one of their studios on a Battlespire or Shadowkey remake as soon as it was clear Bethesda would not be releasing TES6 in the next 3+ years. They just need better graphics (not even anything particularly high, just not "early 3D" tier) functional FPP action RPG stapled onto them to be great.

Personally I'm surprised that MS didn't already announce New Vegas remake. That would be easy money and would gather a lot of good will.

They would butcher it completely, gross

 

[markec]

It seems to me like now would be the perfect time to reintroduce that kind of game - it's quicker to develop, it lets you use TES "lore" as a selling point (which gets everyone rock hard) in a way that's harder with the main games, and it lets them pump money out of the IP without having to actually make TES VI. They could even farm it out to another team if they wanted it to turn out good.

MS should have started one of their studios on a Battlespire or Shadowkey remake as soon as it was clear Bethesda would not be releasing TES6 in the next 3+ years. They just need better graphics (not even anything particularly high, just not "early 3D" tier) functional FPP action RPG stapled onto them to be great.

Personally I'm surprised that MS didn't already announce New Vegas remake. That would be easy money and would gather a lot of good will.

They would butcher it completely, gross

Just like every other remake, but I'm looking from MS perspective, to them it would be a slam dunk.

 

[deuxhero]

New Vegas just needs a 64 bit executable version so it doesn't crash all the time due to running out of RAM, not a remake. A few basic changes (invisible walls, bug fixes, Freeside and Strip open, Grunt working on weapons from other DLC). The difference with Battlespire or Shadowkey is that those can be sold as new games instead of just ports.

 

[Yosharian]

New Vegas just needs a 64 bit executable version so it doesn't crash all the time due to running out of RAM, not a remake. A few basic changes (invisible walls, bug fixes, Freeside and Strip open, Grunt working on weapons from other DLC). The difference with Battlespire or Shadowkey is that those can be sold as new games instead of just ports.

Viva New Vegas can be played start to finish with maybe a handful of crashes at most

 

[deuxhero]

It really can't. The crashes are inherent to the engine: It doesn't clean up its RAM and wants a lot of it despite having only 4GB to work with. It can mitigate it, but it can't really prevent it.

 

[Yosharian]

It really can't. The crashes are inherent to the engine: It doesn't clean up its RAM and wants a lot of it despite having only 4GB to work with. It can mitigate it, but it can't really prevent it.

I'll record my entire next playthrough from start to finish and prove it I guess

 

[Lemming42]

Battlespire is crying out to be made into some kind of imsim. Imagine some of those levels but with viable stealth routes, more applications for magic, that kind of thing. It'd rock beyond all belief.

You can see some clear examples where the tech just wasn't capable of doing what they wanted it to do too, like the hunt on level 5. On a modern engine with better AI they could actually have the hunting parties actively scour the island for you, it'd be tense as fuck.

 

[markec]

New Vegas just needs a 64 bit executable version so it doesn't crash all the time due to running out of RAM, not a remake. A few basic changes (invisible walls, bug fixes, Freeside and Strip open, Grunt working on weapons from other DLC). The difference with Battlespire or Shadowkey is that those can be sold as new games instead of just ports.

Im not talking about what I want but what is easier to sell to the management and fans. Announcing New Vegas Directors Cut by Obsidian on a better engine, with bunch of new content that was planned but had to be cut due time constraints and expanded existing content would be a both huge boost of good will towards MS and a easy hit game.

Personally I would love new version of Battlespire but I doubt that many current Bethesda fans or just regular gamers actually care for it.

Battlespire is crying out to be made into some kind of imsim. Imagine some of those levels but with viable stealth routes, more applications for magic, that kind of thing. It'd rock beyond all belief.

You can see some clear examples where the tech just wasn't capable of doing what they wanted it to do too, like the hunt on level 5. On a modern engine with better AI they could actually have the hunting parties actively scour the island for you, it'd be tense as fuck.

Being able to talk with every enemy is such a impressive thing even if results of that are quite limited. Expanding on it in remake could open so many possibilities, especially since the game already has hierarchy and faction conflicts set between different enemies.

 

[deuxhero]

Problem with NVDC is the most critical missing content wasn't just cut, but never designed because they knew they didn't have the time (like actual Legion settlement) and converting mods wouldn't be nearly as simple. Also have you seen Sawyer lately?

Relative obscurity of the original isn't actually that big a problem. In-fact, it makes it easier to sell as a "new" game (look at Trials of Mana. People knew of it, but only relatively serious fans of its predecessor actually played it.). Shadowkey is even easier because it's a lot closer to a traditional TES games, loading barriers aside. Both were also designed for co-op, which is a big feature.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I don't know if this guy appreciates older Elder Scrolls games or not.





I laughed. He couldn't take it. Old man I be and I enjoyed my old cd of this game. I had no patches, no net. That shit didn't come until much later for me.

 

[Orud]

Daggerfall remains one of my most favorite games of all time, and I only played it for the first time a few years ago.

What's the best way to play Battlespire these days? If there isn't a sourceport available like Daggerfall Unity, I don't mind just firing op the OG game.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I haven't tried the GOG or good unity versions. I'd be tempted to play the ole vanilla disc on my oldest laptop designed for dos and xp.