Fallout 3: get your skills out of my FPS

[Vault Dweller]

http://fallout3.wordpress.com/2008/08/0 ... re-detail/

What was said recently, by both Todd and me, is that in real-time, skill affects chance to hit less than it used to. This change was made after extensive playtesting. Why? Most everyone found it annoying that you’d have your crosshair over an enemy, and your bullets would go completely wide.

I wonder what else "most everyone" found annoying.

 

[racofer]

 

[Darth Roxor]

The same was in Oblivion, did you really expect something else?

 

[JarlFrank]

So, they're dumbing a dumbed down game even more down?

 

[MetalCraze]

So Luck is a dump stat
Intelligence is a dump stat
Agility is a dump stat
Charisma is a dump stat

and now perception is a dump stat too

All hail almighty Strength (moar lewt I can take yay!) and Endurance (moar HP).

 

[Kraszu]

I don't like accuracy to be affected by stats allot in my FPS games, it just not work gameplay wise. There are other ways to make stats significant, you could have Arcanum like ability to make your own weapon for example.

 

[DraQ]

Intelligence is a dump stat

Hence, only the 'dumb' dialogue will be present.

 

[LarsTheSurly]

So Luck is a dump stat
Intelligence is a dump stat
Agility is a dump stat
Charisma is a dump stat

and now perception is a dump stat too

All hail almighty Strength (moar lewt I can take yay!) and Endurance (moar HP).

Thank God they kept the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system intact!

 

[DraQ]

So Luck is a dump stat
Intelligence is a dump stat
Agility is a dump stat
Charisma is a dump stat

and now perception is a dump stat too

All hail almighty Strength (moar lewt I can take yay!) and Endurance (moar HP).

Thank God they kept the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system intact!

They made it even more 'special'. :D

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Try using the Fatman indoors and you’re more likely to kill yourself than anyone else.

Oh really?! :shock:

So I hope this answers some of your questions.

Unfortunately, yes.

It’s always a pleasure to surf the forums and see such lively debate… and most of the time I just hang back and watch you guys discuss/ponder (as it should be).

Because you can't read you only watch.

 

[LarsTheSurly]

Try using the Fatman indoors and you’re more likely to kill yourself than anyone else.

I would think that this would make it <i>just as</i> likely to kill yourself than <i>everyone</i> else.

 

[vrok]

I guess they've never heard of expanding and contracting the crosshair to reflect accuracy, which would completely solve this "misunderstanding".

I don't like accuracy to be affected by stats allot in my FPS games, it just not work gameplay wise.

Deus Ex?

 

[racofer]

Now something caught my attention. Does strength affects bullet damage on FO3?

 

[MetalCraze]

no. They make only the game world retarded. Everything else is dumbed down.

Try using the Fatman indoors and you’re more likely to kill yourself than anyone else.

Holy shit a nuke can actually kill my character! WOW :shock:

 

[Zomg]

I think it works pretty well in Mount and Blade, at least once you're out of the very low skill doldrums. Like, for archery, low skill doesn't translate into just missing - what is usually means is that you have to stand still to fire at anything other than point blank range, and you have a longer lag time between when you draw and release, which makes leading targets harder and lowers your rate of fire. Further, low skill means you can't hold a bow at full draw for very long before your virtual arm gets tired and you can no long fire accurately without re-drawing. Higher skill (and relevant "feats") means you can draw rapidly and fire accurately while moving (on horseback, anyway), and you can hold your draw long enough to switch targets or wait for an opponent to drop their shield. There's a qualitative difference between low and high skill.

This even serves to make crossbows a qualitatively relevant weapon, because, just as in history, their virtue is that they're easy to use and they can hold their draw as long as you like.

Interesting, qualitative contingency due to skills? Lol game design.

 

[Kraszu]

I guess they've never heard of expanding and contracting the crosshair to reflect accuracy, which would completely solve this "misunderstanding".

I don't like accuracy to be affected by stats allot in my FPS games, it just not work gameplay wise.

Deus Ex?

It didn't work that well there. I think that there are better gameplay wise ways to have significant character development, and don't get aiming so bad that you can't move and have to wait long before shooting, to get to the point where it is straight line. Both don't work good. That said I don't think that FO3 will have good character development.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I liked Bloodlines ranged combat system. Its brilliant design was proven by all those retarded reviewers who claimed that the firearms are useless. They are, if your skill is low.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Now something caught my attention. Does strength affects bullet damage on FO3?

Valid point.

 

[Kraszu]

I liked Bloodlines ranged combat system. Its brilliant design was proven by all those retarded reviewers who claimed that the firearms are useless. They are, if your skill is low.

How did it work? I had only played melee char.

 

[DraQ]

I guess they've never heard of expanding and contracting the crosshair to reflect accuracy, which would completely solve this "misunderstanding".

That's so last gen.

Anyway, they should have done it like in Night's Edge mod for UT:

1.You aim using your weapon's sights.
2. Depending on fatigue (add skills and attributes in FO3) your weapon sways
3. Your weapon fires in the direction it's pointing, rather than the middle of the screen.
...
4. Profit!

It'd work perfectly, imagine some runt who is also inept at handling big guns trying to fire a machine gun in full auto with this system:
His gun would be knocked around wildly with each bullet fired, effectively resulting in almost uniform spread over the entire FOV. :D

 

[Zomg]

Skill affects damage and I think knockdown rate in Bloodlines - shooting is otherwise straight FPS. It's just that first gun you can acquire is terrible and the second is pretty bad.

 

[DraQ]

Skill affects damage and I think knockdown rate in Bloodlines - shooting is otherwise straight FPS.

Sounds like oblivion.

 

[silver crowaxe]

Silliness overload.

 

[DiverNB]

I liked Bloodlines ranged combat system. Its brilliant design was proven by all those retarded reviewers who claimed that the firearms are useless. They are, if your skill is low.

I think the system was OK. I had a firearm skill of 4 or 5 in the first city and hitting stuff with that POS .38 was such a pain and didn't have any reward for all the aiming you have to do with it. Until you get the shotgun you're much better off just using blood buff and a knife.

Later on though it developed pretty well with the 9mm pistol and the colt

 

[Zomg]

Skill affects damage and I think knockdown rate in Bloodlines - shooting is otherwise straight FPS.

Sounds like oblivion.

I watched a combat video on YouTube to refresh my memory, and there is some tightening reticle action in VtMB, meaning that there's a skill-based cone of fire just like in Deus Ex or M&B. I think all the guns have perfect accuracy standing still, but the reticle expands as you move and it takes the reticle longer to retighten after a shot or movement with low skill. The main effect is that novices have to aim more carefully and some of the secondary firing modes are for experts only.