I hate that RPGs are being made to cater to these people. If you dont have alot of time to game, dont play fucking RPGs, simple as that.
If you're 7 years old and can barely read Harry Potter, dont go digging out A Song of Ice and Fire.
-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Here it is, bitches - FRANKIE'S OBLIGON IMPRESSIONS
- Thread starter Twinfalls
- Start date
I hate that RPGs are being made to cater to these people. If you dont have alot of time to game, dont play fucking RPGs, simple as that.
If you're 7 years old and can barely read Harry Potter, dont go digging out A Song of Ice and Fire.
GhanBuriGhan
Erudite
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2005
- Messages
- 1,170
Say what you will, but I like the fast travel feature too. I use it when I want to and don't when I don't. Where is the problem?
Lord Chambers
Erudite
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2006
- Messages
- 1,018
You don't travel through the map. You teleport. Thanks for playing.
FaranBrygo
Educated
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 99
Daggerfall had time/cost/transportation type factor and that made it seem more real. Oblivion's just dumps you at your requested location.Kraszu said:
Well, time DOES pass when you fast travel. However, if there would be random encounters on the road, etc - that would be so much better.
And besides, I'd say that MW-like 'public transport' system would be so much better, if you want 'instant travel', with 'overmap' travel feature, with abovementioned random encounters.
*shrugs*
And besides, I'd say that MW-like 'public transport' system would be so much better, if you want 'instant travel', with 'overmap' travel feature, with abovementioned random encounters.
*shrugs*
OverrideB1
Scholar
There was little wrong with fast-travel in MW, the fancy "public transport" system jsut made it seem much more natural and realistic than click-on-a-map-and-you're-there that featured in DF and features in OB. (Of course, it was always puzzling why silt-striders never got attacked by those crazed Ashland psychos and pirates never seemed to roam the seas around Vvardenfell -- interrupted "fast-travel" would have been so much better, providing it wasn't overdone)
But that seems to be the Bethesda way: build every game from the ground up, disregarding everything you've done in previous games - even those bits that made the previous game more realistic and (gasp) immersive.
But that seems to be the Bethesda way: build every game from the ground up, disregarding everything you've done in previous games - even those bits that made the previous game more realistic and (gasp) immersive.
Falcore19
Novice
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2006
- Messages
- 81
I played about 25 hours too.
My conclusion : good adventure game ; bad RPG.
I've played all Elder Scroll games since Arena. I liked them for their immersion, their ambiance, there was something interesting to be developed there. I never beat them : they all got boring after a while, because the actual gameplay was flawed.
Oblivion has the same strength and weaknesses as it's predecessors, but more so. It has better ambiance, dialogues, voice acting, quests, graphics, music , books ; all elements that contributes to good immersion, althought the main plot is really cliché. The adventure part of the game is good : you walk around in a pretty , lively world, with a lot of characters. Most people agree that was well done.
On the other hand, the actual gameplay is weaker. The skill / leveling system is almost the same as Arena, which is more than 10 years old. Basically, you need to pay attention to when you gain levels so you don't screw up your attributes. You need to be careful to not use certain skills too much if you want your character to be like you want it to be. When you level, the monsters are scaled to your strength, so it's almost pointless to get stronger. This isn't fun.
They changed the combat, which is better and worse at the same time. It's better because you have more control over what you do : you manually dodge, block and hit your enemies in an action RPG kind of way. It's worse because their combat system is too simplistic to work, and it has obvious holes that made me wonder how they got past beta. For instance, projectiles are totally non lethal in this game : they are so slow that you can dodge them by simply side stepping. My grandma is fast enough to evade them. Every spellcasters and archers can be beaten easily. Yes, you can dodge arrows. As for close combat, it's above the average rpg, but what is so special about "block and counter"? Does that impress you? Wait till your enemy strikes, block, then counter. That's hardly as "revolutionary" as their radiant AI.
Why didn't they include their superior AI in their combat system? Would you rather have characters sleep and do daily tasks like chatting and gathering food to look realistic or have monsters that actually fight intelligently? What's the point of spending so much effort on a virtual world? What is fun about watching NPC's talk to each other? I concede that it's a plus, for the ambiance. But it's not worth it considering they could have spent their effort on actual game-play instead.
My conclusion : good adventure game ; bad RPG.
I've played all Elder Scroll games since Arena. I liked them for their immersion, their ambiance, there was something interesting to be developed there. I never beat them : they all got boring after a while, because the actual gameplay was flawed.
Oblivion has the same strength and weaknesses as it's predecessors, but more so. It has better ambiance, dialogues, voice acting, quests, graphics, music , books ; all elements that contributes to good immersion, althought the main plot is really cliché. The adventure part of the game is good : you walk around in a pretty , lively world, with a lot of characters. Most people agree that was well done.
On the other hand, the actual gameplay is weaker. The skill / leveling system is almost the same as Arena, which is more than 10 years old. Basically, you need to pay attention to when you gain levels so you don't screw up your attributes. You need to be careful to not use certain skills too much if you want your character to be like you want it to be. When you level, the monsters are scaled to your strength, so it's almost pointless to get stronger. This isn't fun.
They changed the combat, which is better and worse at the same time. It's better because you have more control over what you do : you manually dodge, block and hit your enemies in an action RPG kind of way. It's worse because their combat system is too simplistic to work, and it has obvious holes that made me wonder how they got past beta. For instance, projectiles are totally non lethal in this game : they are so slow that you can dodge them by simply side stepping. My grandma is fast enough to evade them. Every spellcasters and archers can be beaten easily. Yes, you can dodge arrows. As for close combat, it's above the average rpg, but what is so special about "block and counter"? Does that impress you? Wait till your enemy strikes, block, then counter. That's hardly as "revolutionary" as their radiant AI.
Why didn't they include their superior AI in their combat system? Would you rather have characters sleep and do daily tasks like chatting and gathering food to look realistic or have monsters that actually fight intelligently? What's the point of spending so much effort on a virtual world? What is fun about watching NPC's talk to each other? I concede that it's a plus, for the ambiance. But it's not worth it considering they could have spent their effort on actual game-play instead.
Imbecile
Arbiter
I agree in general, but I would say that in the specific cases you mentioned the ideas are sound but the execution was flawed.
The concept of a levelling system that improves the skills that you use seems good to me. The complaint that you’re character doesn’t become the one that you want it to be seems pretty groundless to me. You want to be a thief? Play as a thief. Don’t blow things up with fireballs and then complain that your agility isn’t improving.
However the multiplier approach is pretty screwed up and needs rethinking.
I like the concept of partially levelled loot and enemies, and Oblivion is a more challenging game than Morrowind. Which is good. But they went waaay too far with the levelling thang. Again – lousy execution.
Horses. Decent idea, lousy execution.
I disagree with you on the combat AI – enemies cast interesting ranges of spells, use different weapons as appropriate, and (OK mainly the humanoid characters) fight intelligently. Sure its only block and slash but what else should characters do in combat, and its actually executed well. In many ways its more solid than the overhyped radiant AI.
I appreciate that Bethesda like to start afresh every time, but there is sometimes merit in improving features that were good ideas the first time around, just poorly executed. Instead they seem to want to start afresh each time, so they can make new mistakes.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like Oblivion I just think that if they focussed a bit more on evolution, and a bit less on revolution, they’d end up with a better game.
The concept of a levelling system that improves the skills that you use seems good to me. The complaint that you’re character doesn’t become the one that you want it to be seems pretty groundless to me. You want to be a thief? Play as a thief. Don’t blow things up with fireballs and then complain that your agility isn’t improving.
However the multiplier approach is pretty screwed up and needs rethinking.
I like the concept of partially levelled loot and enemies, and Oblivion is a more challenging game than Morrowind. Which is good. But they went waaay too far with the levelling thang. Again – lousy execution.
Horses. Decent idea, lousy execution.
I disagree with you on the combat AI – enemies cast interesting ranges of spells, use different weapons as appropriate, and (OK mainly the humanoid characters) fight intelligently. Sure its only block and slash but what else should characters do in combat, and its actually executed well. In many ways its more solid than the overhyped radiant AI.
I appreciate that Bethesda like to start afresh every time, but there is sometimes merit in improving features that were good ideas the first time around, just poorly executed. Instead they seem to want to start afresh each time, so they can make new mistakes.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like Oblivion I just think that if they focussed a bit more on evolution, and a bit less on revolution, they’d end up with a better game.
OverrideB1
Scholar
Ahh, but if they simply went the evolutionary route, they wouldn't be able to slap that all-important "next-generation of RPG" label on it. And, from a marketing point-of-view, that would suck mightily.
Having read through the quest-lines on UESP (since I never intend to play this peice of drek, I'm not worried about spoilers) it's all very well saying "you can play as a thief or a mage" but ALL of the quests are combat-orientated -- your basic go there, kill that, bring me this quest that marred MW and which we were promised would be improved. Pure sneaky types or pure magical types have been screwed over by Bethesda yet again since you absolutely need some combat skills to survive.
As for the levelling malarky, it looks like a typical Bethesda lash up: a cool idea that got taken to extremes without being thought through properly.
Having read through the quest-lines on UESP (since I never intend to play this peice of drek, I'm not worried about spoilers) it's all very well saying "you can play as a thief or a mage" but ALL of the quests are combat-orientated -- your basic go there, kill that, bring me this quest that marred MW and which we were promised would be improved. Pure sneaky types or pure magical types have been screwed over by Bethesda yet again since you absolutely need some combat skills to survive.
As for the levelling malarky, it looks like a typical Bethesda lash up: a cool idea that got taken to extremes without being thought through properly.
i think adventure genre definition is slightly wrong. How is saving Tamriel not an adventure? Monkey Island is a puzzle game. sure it had story and adventure (i.e explorations) but the main job of the player is to solve problems.
OK :> let's not debate on that shit. but the classic adventure games is all about puzzle solving like Sierra thing ticks me off a bit.
When I was younger, I used to create [GAMES] directory on my harddisk and divide it by genres like [RPG] [ADVENTURE] etc after a while the habits just dies off hehee and I remember those going to ADVENTURE always has puzzle solving elements and nothing else.
When I was younger, I used to create [GAMES] directory on my harddisk and divide it by genres like [RPG] [ADVENTURE] etc after a while the habits just dies off hehee and I remember those going to ADVENTURE always has puzzle solving elements and nothing else.
OverrideB1 said:
You're absolutely right, combat is completly the emphasis of the game and almost all quests. (that I've done) Shame, such a fucking crying shame given the improvement in ideas and creative writing of them. Almost never is there more than a 'jump through the hoops in the right order' way of completion. Even where there are obvious other avenues you can't follow them! :evil:
There's not much thinking involved in the game except for the following:
1) Crap, I'm about to level up - oooo, have I increased enough minor skills to get more than a x2 modifier 'cos if I get left behind in the stats dept I'm gonna get fuckin' owned by all the leveled up xyz.
2) Difficult battle preventing me finishing the quest, what tactics/spam can I use to beat and get the thingy of quest completion.
3) Nope, that's it folks...
Given the great stuff this game has, it is really really criminal that they have made it so shallow and uninvolving for the grey matter. It's beautiful for the most part and can really make you feel like you're in another world visually, until some immersion breaker comes along and slaps you in the face with a trout, kindly reminding you that "YOU'RE JUST PLAYING A FUCKING VIDEO GAME YOU TOOL"
The best AI related one which completely phased me and made me stop playing was after finishing the inside a painting quest. The guy and his wife were really grateful, with the wife saying "Please make your self at home" before the guy starts to say something like it was time to leave.. anyway I took her at her word and had a look around - though I may even take a nap for a bit before moving on. Next thing I know the guy is punching me in the head!!! WTF FFS? So I quickly leave, but both he and his wife followed me into the street to punch me some more... and then a guard joined in... there's gratitude for ya.
Still it's possible to get enjoyment from the game, you do have to be able to overlook stuff, which I can do. Kinda like enjoying a pulp action film - no brain required but still fun. There's bugger all point in starting another char as far as I can see since unless you avoid the same quests you have to jump through the same hoops. I'm avoiding all dungeons and combat that I can while still doing the quests because otherwise I get bored. My char was supposed to be a Ranger type - good with bow, and stealth & can heal but not alchemist type or thief. Unfortunately, since I can't pick a lock or mix poisons I'm stuffed apparently, so as in MW I ended up just a light armoured fighter who takes a pop shot with a bow before drawing a sword in the face of the banzaiii attack.
Ramble over. Just my thoughts after 36 hours of mindless, but fun, entertainment.
Missed opportunity IMO.
User was nabbed fit
Guest
I think that developers need to stuff the idea of 'mainstreaming' CRPGs up their fucking cunts; CRPGs are not meant to be mainstreamed, they are meant to be complex. Casual gamer doesn't want to put time into a CRPG? Tough fucking cookies!
Hey, shit, should we mainstream nuclear science so that everyone could get involved?
Hey, shit, should we mainstream nuclear science so that everyone could get involved?
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.