Non-J jRPG

[Pope Amole]

OK, so as I've said before, I am a member of a small team, we think about doing rpg, etc. etc., yadda-yadda, blah-blah-blah, herp-derp-derp, and in the end, we're probing different options ATM. So it occurred to me to ask codex about this one - how it would treat a non-J jRPG? Would you buy a project like this?

Now, allow me to clarify, by the term of non-J jRPG I mean such qualities:

1.) Core gameplay taken from jRPG, obviously, probably from the older ones, of Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger likeness. Meaning that you explore in 2D top-down mode (or maybe we'll go for pseudo-2D 3D fixed top-down camera) and fight a party vs party blob-style combat in the side view. Similar to stuff that those guys make in the RPGmaker, y'know, but it won't be done in said program and it will certainly feature unique assets. Maybe some minor innovations like slightly revamped combat or somewhat different exploration, but it'll keep fairly tight to the roots.

2.) Non-anime design. Characters will be drawn/modeled in fully western style.

3.) Non-anime plot. Like, no PHILOSOPHICAL DEPTH, no INTRICATE DRAMA, no HEROIC TRAGEDY, none of the faggotry you see in your average jRPG. Now, mind you there will be depth, but no DEPTH if you understand what am I saying. None of the anime cliche, either.

4.) Non-gamepad controls. Really, all of those RPGmaker games are made for PC strictly yet all of them even try to recognize that mouse and keyboard exist. There will be hotkeys, drag & drop inventory, well, pretty much everything you see in PC RPG.

5.) Likewise, no rudimentary console elements. Say, no checkpoints - save wherever and whenever you want, you're in freaking PC game, after all.

6.) Western dialogues. With dialogue windows, multiple options, maybe even Planescape-style vast descriptions of characters' looks, smells and whatever.

7.) Western RPG system, meaning that you will have to build character, distribute stats, will have some freedom in equipping your guys, etc.

Basically, stuff like that. What do you think, guys? I know that a majority of proud codexians hate jRPGs, but would you buy a fully cleansed and repented game of that genre, where only advantages of its specific are present?

 

[DraQ]

JPGs are typically storylines wrapped up in thin layer of usually shitty mechanics, and varying presentation, so it depends - given that the Codex is full of self-proclaimed non-graphicswhores it depends mostly on the story (since mechanics will be shit):

Will it be as good as Anachronox?

 

[lightbane]

It can work, there are many jrpgs that are very atypical (as in, not cliched to hell), like SMT: Nocturne and Strange Journey (dungeon crawl rpgs with actual choices and consequences), Devil Survivor (Strategy Rpg with even more C&C, unfortunately it suffers from some anime clichés), Radiata Stories (jrpg where npcs have a schedule, you can freerly change your main character gear and it will be reflected ingame with new skins, animations and such plus two different endings), Steambot Chronicles (more like an adventure game than a jrpg, fuckton of different choices and variations of the endings)...

You also should check Radiant Historia, a very recent NDS game reminiscent of Chrono Trigger that shares some of the qualities you mentioned (Choices and consequences, anime emofaggotry is pretty minimal, a turn-based grid combat system, awesomesauce soundtrack...). So yes, I would probably play it.

 

[Arkady]

Core gameplay from old JRPGs- you mean: combat and random encounters. So you want to mix good RPG things with weakest gameplay element of JRPG. Its gonna sucks.

JRPG combat concept is just bad. It's a technological fossil from 8-bit consoles age and should be forgotten. Nothing can save it. Or maybe can, but then it won't be JRPG combat anymore. And the most pissing thing in jRPGs are random encounters while exploring, I mean monsters attacking randomly out of nowhere.
Mentioned Devil Survivor approach was quite succesful, but only because of isometric "tactical view", while 1v1 combat still sucked. Strange Journey is the same shit as 8-bit J games, but on cloned Eye of Beholder engine.

Better check 2 J-like RPG made once by USA/ Europe studios: 'Silver' and 'Septerra Core'. Devs tried to do something with J legacy shit.

 

[Zed]

Of course it would work but you'd need very strong characterization/story/setting etc to make it noteworthy.

 

[Eyeball]

Core gameplay from old JRPGs- you mean: combat and random encounters. So you want to mix good RPG things with weakest gameplay element of JRPG. Its gonna sucks.

JRPG combat concept is just bad. It's a technological fossil from 8-bit consoles age and should be forgotten. Nothing can save it. Or maybe can, but then it won't be JRPG combat anymore. And the most pissing thing in jRPGs are random encounters while exploring, I mean monsters attacking randomly out of nowhere.

Correct. Anachronox was a good "non-JRPG JRPG" as what you're suggesting, and that was in SPITE of its honestly pretty shitty combat engine. The story, humour and art direction was just so good they made up for the JRPG-elements.

There are many good JRPGs, but they're generally good for the same reason Anachronox was good - JRPG combat is almost uniformly ungood.

For a western made JRPG that's actually really good, try Exit Fate: http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49139

Fairly standard JRPG combat but an engrossing enough story with plenty of plot twists that I kept playing until the end.

 

[Catalina]

Personally, as a person who likes both Jrpg's and Crpg's, (and regularly buys more of them than she can ever keep up with), I would be an interested potential customer. And since I love giving my opinion on things that interest me, I can give you a tl;dr that might be of some use

I think mixing the best aspects of both is a good idea, and I personally really like to see the games that people make with that specific goal in mind. The most influential factors towards me actually making a purchase would be 1) The price point, 2) The perceived depth of the game, both in gameplay and storyline/character development, 3) The overall look, feel, and sound of the game, 4) Whether or not there was a demo, and 5) developer status updates and community interaction .

Now, my personal opinions on the points you mentioned are:

1) 2D mode or 3D mode doesn't make a difference, as long as it's done well. You saying that the core game-play would be taken from FFVI or Chrono Trigger gives me pause, however. Moreso the FFVI part than the Chrono Trigger, mostly because of random encounters, and the fact that Chrono Trigger had a lot of interesting additions to combat like double and triple attacks, as well as a point of view that made it seemed like you were overlooking a battlefield, rather than having guys on two sides swinging swords at the air. I am very very NOT interested in a game where the majority of the combat is done in numerous random encounters that can be handled by hitting "auto battle" or giving macros to party members.

2) Don't care much about what design style it's in, as long as it has an overall good look. There are Western art styles that look horrible to me, just as much as there are bug eyed animu styles that make me want to gouge my eyes out. My hope is that you'll pick a style and make it look very good.

3) That's very good to hear. Most Jrpg plots were fun when I was a teenager but...well, as a young adult, it's hard to pick through all the stuff that doesn't interest me to find something that resonates like it used to. Generally, it's hard to look for a game that's adult or mature, as the label often means "ADULT" and "MATURE", i.e. sex and violence made accessible to teenagers.

4) Don't care about the controls, as long as it works and is intuitive. The less I have to think about the controls, and the more it comes intuitively, the better.

5) Don't care much either, as long as the save system is bug free. I guess I would slightly prefer a free save system to one with checkpoints.

6 & 7) Aaaaah, see, now this is what really sells me on the game, and makes me interested enough to follow a project, or even contemplate spending money on it. Western RPG's have a distinct advantage over Jrpg's in the fact that they have choices and customization. Especially in the replayability department. Also, I tend to like games that allow for freedom, but have some structure.

I guess my thoughts could be summed up as: your idea seems interesting. I'm pretty flexible about what mechanics and aspects I find acceptable; BUT, for heavens sake, pick what you want to do, and find out how to do it WELL. It's not what mechanics you choose that have the major effect on my interest so much as how well you pull it off. The mechanics are the bait, the implementation of them is the hook. Also, a game is still a worthy purchase, if some aspects are fantastic while others are merely okay. Maybe even with an aspect or two that are actually bad.

However, a bad music/soundtrack makes me drop a game extremely fast.

 

[deuxhero]

Didn't Ion Storm (The JR one, not the DX one), do something like that?

*checks*

Anachronox says google. Apparently it isn't horrible.

edit:I see its alreddy been mentioned.

 

[Pope Amole]

Wait-wait-wait, so you guys say that jRPG-ish combat is actually shit? OK, that sounds retarded in the eXtreme way, but I've never had a console, never played any, y'know, real jRPGs, and my experience was with mostly fan-made ones. And, while most of them had indeed a gruesomely boring fights, that all seemed to stem from bad and bland game design and bad balance, not from the system itself. I mean, I can even list the ones that I've played:

Barkley's Shut up and Jam! Gaiden - ok, bad thing to put first in such list, it really is the Planescape: Torment of fan-made jRPGs, meaning that you love it for the story and not for the actual gameplay. Mini-game based combat looked really tedious and it's unlikely that it could be tolerated for more than, like, 4 hours it took me to finish the game (IIRC).

Sword of Jade - yeah, it's a furry faggotry, it's pretentious as hell in its faulty Ayne Randish philosophy and it has a horrible, horrible ending, but gameplay-wise it was pretty awesome. Time as resource was an excellent idea (even if, in the end, there was more time in the game that you could possibly use), icons and a plentitude of skills & icons provided good customization of characters and the combat was pretty fun, especially during the first playthrough (I kinda screwed it, had to restart and on the second one I kinda overmunched the game so it became way, way too easy). You had lot of options in it, enemies were quite varied and, thanks to the constantly changing attributes, battles were pretty dynamic. It felt that, with some improvements, you really could've pushed the combat there into awesomeness territory.

Eternal Eden - well, another title I'm not ashamed to mention here. Sure, the story there was... Well, it could've been nice if it had, like, more characterization, longer dialogues and deeper characters, but even so it was more or less tolerable and it had a nice gameplay, especially for the first roughly 60% of the game. While skills were far from being plentiful, combat managed to stay interesting enough and, to reduce the tedium of constant grinding, game had a lot of mini-puzzles which were kinda pleasant to get through. It also had a wee bit of exploration, a tolerable turtle-finding mini-game and a series of nice in concept, but broken in execution side-boss battles. Well, side-boss battles from mercenary guild was what ruined the remaining 40% of the game for me - I gained too much experience and power from them, so after that everything was pretty much of a breeze. But before that it was nicely balanced and I actually wait for a second part to be released.

Aveyond 2 - my only excuse of finishing it is that I was completing it at a job, meaning that I was paid for it, kind of. It's bland in all directions and it has crap combat, but then, it's obvious where that crap combat came from - too few useful chars, to few useful skills, too few of everything. No one just bothered enough to make combat there interesting.

Master of the Wind - dropped in the beginning of 2nd episode. Tedious puzzles, tons of boring grind fights, uninspiring story. But, once again, fights were boring not because of the system - they were simply too often and too samey due to the lack of skills and different enemies.

The Way - a game with nice premise and interesting setting, but strange execution. Got to the episode 5 and couldn't even start it. First, the glorified plunge system turned out to be nothing but a wee bit stats-based ROCK-PAPER-SCISSORS mini-game, where what mattered was not your skill, but perseverance in finding hidden stashes with stat-boosting items, second, combat was shit due to being too simple, third, story looked not that bad from the beginning through the middle of the game, but later part was slaughtered by the fact that everyone suddenly got a HUGE PERSONAL DRAMA and that they murdered the only romanceable girl that actually wasn't a slut. I hate sluts.

Vacant Sky - well, the first part was not that bad, but I have played through the other two with nothing but morbid curiosity, it was interesting if the author will be able to fuck up things harder than he already did. Well, he never failed to deliver in that department. I mean, there were some nice touches, but for each of them there were, like, five major screw-ups, especially in the plot. God, those awful, despicable, uninteresting characters with their idiotic attitudes, like, "Oh, you just murdered my one and only friend by your stupidity, but you know, it's ok, after all, I love you". Fuckkity fuck.

A-a-and... That's it. TL; DR: yeah, I've got some laughable experience with jRPGs, but I dunno, from Eternal Eden and Sword of Jade it seemed that, if rightly done, the combat in jRPGs could be awesome. After all, it's nothing but slightly remade action from the Wizardry series and the like, so does anyone of you, gents, want to say that Wizardry had a shit combat?

OK, now to the specific answers.

Will it be as good as Anachronox?

Well, since it seems like it did what we strived to do, I guess I'll have to play Anachronox in the nigh time and see for my self, what can be salvaged from there.

You also should check Radiant Historia, a very recent NDS game reminiscent of Chrono Trigger that shares some of the qualities you mentioned (Choices and consequences, anime emofaggotry is pretty minimal, a turn-based grid combat system, awesomesauce soundtrack...). So yes, I would probably play it.

Meh, I have a 7-years old PC so I'm not sure if I will be able to emulate those games. As far as I understand, video card means shit here, but I have but 2.5 ghz CPU and 768 mb ram.

JRPG combat concept is just bad. It's a technological fossil from 8-bit consoles age and should be forgotten. Nothing can save it. Or maybe can, but then it won't be JRPG combat anymore. And the most pissing thing in jRPGs are random encounters while exploring, I mean monsters attacking randomly out of nowhere.

Well, I don't really agree that nothing can save it, it really didn't felt so from my experience. Oh, and there will be no random encounters - I hate them too in this kind of a game, besides, they open the option of grinding and it really, really sucks. Also, there will be no 1x1 fights (maybe with the exception of tutorial ones) since any turn-based combat is shitty in that mode.

For a western made JRPG that's actually really good, try Exit Fate: http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49139

Fairly standard JRPG combat but an engrossing enough story with plenty of plot twists that I kept playing until the end.

Eh, I saw it in the backday, but heard that its story is really copy-pasted from some major jRPGs and that drew me away from it. I'd rather have something more or less original than a mish-mash of "borrowed" ideas.

Of course it would work but you'd need very strong characterization/story/setting etc to make it noteworthy.

Yeah, but almost anything will work if you have those things, really.

Personally, as a person who likes both Jrpg's and Crpg's, (and regularly buys more of them than she can ever keep up with)

Well, no offense meant, but I've stared this thread since I was interested in the opinion of the people who actually hate your average jRPG. I mean, we're aiming for the PC auditory and it seems that, apart from the little casual sector that buys all those RPGmaker games, it actually does hate them, so we want to ask what if it was really different. Not that it means that I'm going to disregard your opinions, though.

You saying that the core game-play would be taken from FFVI or Chrono Trigger gives me pause, however.

It was really for a meaningless example, since, as you can see, I haven't even played those titles (yet). It will be jRPGish, but what title it will resemble is hard to tell at this point.

3) That's very good to hear. Most Jrpg plots were fun when I was a teenager but...well, as a young adult, it's hard to pick through all the stuff that doesn't interest me to find something that resonates like it used to. Generally, it's hard to look for a game that's adult or mature, as the label often means "ADULT" and "MATURE", i.e. sex and violence made accessible to teenagers.

Well, we're aiming for a non-trivial story in non-trivial setting and our target auditory is adult, so I guess it will be kinda different. And there won't be any needless sex and violence because it is lame and because that the crowd that looks for them doesn't do so on the indie-RPG market.

I guess my thoughts could be summed up as: your idea seems interesting. I'm pretty flexible about what mechanics and aspects I find acceptable; BUT, for heavens sake, pick what you want to do, and find out how to do it WELL.

See, we're tied up in the graphics department so we're looking first at what we can do well and second at what do we want to do. jRPG look interesting because an oldschool one is quite easy to make, as show by all the examples, but it also has a really, really narrow market which may be kinda crowded at this point, so what we're interested in is if it's possible to widen that market and stuff like that.

However, a bad music/soundtrack makes me drop a game extremely fast.

But why won't you just disable it and use your own playlist for the game? For me, it also works and, at times, works even better than the original OST since, to be honest, few game soundtracks can hold on their own against, ughm, real composers.

 

[deuxhero]

Final Fantasy 5 proves that Fiinal Fantasy's bad combat is just bad design. 5 has bosses that will quickly kill you if you don't kill them quick (which isn't hard). Damage outpaces healing really quick, so no attrition bosses either.

 

[Catalina]

Ah, I see better where you're coming from, now. I've played Jrpg's on console, mostly from the SNES/PSX/PS2 eras, so that's how I judge "Jrpg combat". I've not actually played a lot of PC-based Jrpg-type games. The ones I can think of offhand are Recettear and Cute Knight Kingdom, both of which are more of simulation games with optional Jrpg elements tacked on.

I guess I would describe horrible console Jrpg-type combat as combat that has a high encounter rate, and extreme repetitiveness and mindlessness in the fights. That is, having to do the same thing over and over, to the point of frustration.

However, You seem to have a good handle on wanting to prevent that. I think that if you do decide to go the route of taking Jrpg combat and applying better design, it would be very interesting to see what you come up with.

 

[Noddy]

TBH the only thing that ever bothered me about JRPG combat was the shitty character systems and if you're replacing that then it sounds fine to me. (Although not being to create your character is the highest level of faggotry and instantly kills character systems).

More general things like dialogue system, plot, random encounters and anime you've got covered, so the only thing left is to make sure it's non-linear and i'm interested.

If you do all this though it's not really a non j jrpg, more of a crpg with blob(ish) combat.

 

[zeitgeist]

Why are you making a jRPG if you haven't even played most of the jRPG classics? What is your function on this project?

 

[Pope Amole]

Why are you making a jRPG if you haven't even played most of the jRPG classics? What is your function on this project?

OK, I'll clarify on this one. See, we don't really want to create a jRPG specifically - we want to create some RPG, to tell a story and stuff, but we're on a tight budget so we don't want to start another "been developed for the 12 years" mess. Thus, we're searching for the game formula that will allow us to make a more or less decently looking game while keeping development costs at the bay and, from what I've seen in modern indie-PC jRPG experience, it is quite possible with this genre. So that's it, budget and rationality issues.

As for the "haven't even played" - sure, that's silly but that can always be rectified, considering that whatever RPG we will start to produce, we will start doing that in about 1-1.5 years or so. At least when it'll come to the game design/programming part of it, graphics will probably get started much earlier, but previous experience is not really important here. So if we'll decide to make an jRPG (because now we're in the stage of planning and choosing which plan to adhere to), believe me, we'll do the research.

And I'm like a story writer/one of the game designers/composer there.

TBH the only thing that ever bothered me about JRPG combat was the shitty character systems and if you're replacing that then it sounds fine to me. (Although not being to create your character is the highest level of faggotry and instantly kills character systems).

Well, I think the game will use a special-like system for the character creation, so in skills and stats and stuff the player will be able to make, well, whatever he manages to make, as for the personality side of character... I'm not sure if we will be able to produce lots of variable appearances for the PC or, rather, I'm sure that we won't, but at least we will make 3+ choices in dialogue and story decisions so the inner personality part will be more or less customizeable.

I guess I would describe horrible console Jrpg-type combat as combat that has a high encounter rate, and extreme repetitiveness and mindlessness in the fights. That is, having to do the same thing over and over, to the point of frustration.

Well, we have a good AI specialist in the team and we plan to exploit him at fullest, meaning that the fights won't be mindless at all. And high encounter rate, as well as the random encounters and stuff, won't be present there since that's a padding kind of design which, frankly, sucks. I mean, gamers pay money to be entertained, not to spend their precious time on endless chores, and 10 hour game that is full of action is much better than 40 hour game in which you simply repetitively push the same button. So yeah, smart enemies should, probably, do the trick, and maybe we'll discuss a possibility of procedurally-generated enemy parties with him, meaning that if a player will find some uber-powered one-sided cookie-cutter build, the game will adapt to him and will force him to think once again. Or is that too close to level scaling? Hard to tell.

 

[Zed]

well it is pretty fucking easy to make a 4-direction movement 2d world with turn-based Final Fantasy-like combat. and it's easy to make it interesting if you incorporate customization and all that jazz you wrote about. add some nice sprites and backgrounds, music, dialog with meaningful options... doesn't sound too bad. go for it!

 

[Catalina]

As for the "haven't even played" - sure, that's silly but that can always be rectified, considering that whatever RPG we will start to produce, we will start doing that in about 1-1.5 years or so. At least when it'll come to the game design/programming part of it, graphics will probably get started much earlier, but previous experience is not really important here. So if we'll decide to make an jRPG (because now we're in the stage of planning and choosing which plan to adhere to), believe me, we'll do the research.

Awesome. If you want suggestions for specific JRPG's to go to for research, I'm happy to provide suggestions. Worth looking at a Let's Play or an endurance run, at least. Off the top of my head, I think of Persona 4 and certain entries in the Suikoden series. Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 is an example of an JRPG which provides some customization for the MC's dialogue options and NPC interaction, with some dialogue options effecting stats or requiring a stats check to pass. (Be warned that the Japanese and the anime is strong with this one, though, so I imagine it can be a bit of a culture shock.) The Suikoden series has dialogue options for the MC, and while most are just for cosmetic effect or the standard JRPG binary "choice" between picking a choice and getting a character, or denying it and not activating the reward... IIRC, part II and part V have multiple ending branches that are affected by some of the choice, especially V.

Well, I think the game will use a special-like system for the character creation, so in skills and stats and stuff the player will be able to make, well, whatever he manages to make, as for the personality side of character... I'm not sure if we will be able to produce lots of variable appearances for the PC or, rather, I'm sure that we won't, but at least we will make 3+ choices in dialogue and story decisions so the inner personality part will be more or less customizeable.

Good, MC customization and roleplay-abiity is something I really in games. If your project ends up getting off the ground, I hope your group will have a developers' blog or forum or something.

 

[Severian Silk]

If it was totally an SRPG I might give Exit Fate a try. However, I have no tolerance for menu based RPGs.

 

[zeitgeist]

we want to create some RPG, to tell a story and stuff

What happened to wanting to create some RPG to implement some awesome gameplay mechanics for a change?

Anyway, if the story is supposed to be the main draw of the game, let's hear the pitch.

 

[JarlFrank]

I wouldn't mind it as long as it was good, which means that you should do two things differently than the usual JRPG:

Give the player dialogue options. The fact that in 90% of JRPGs dialogues are completely linear and you're not even offered fake choices or anything. I just don't like it when the player character's dialogue is completely linear and you have no influence whatsoever on dialogues. So, please, add dialogue choices, don't make typical linear JRPG conversations.

Also, even more importantly: DO NOT MAKE THE COMBAT ANIMATION-HEAVY. I like blob combat, but I hate the way JRPGs always drag it out for far too long by giving every attack a lengthy COOL-LOOKING animation. It just takes too fucking long and after an hour of playing you don't give a shit about how cool the animations are and just want the combat to be quicker.

 

[zeitgeist]

Also, even more importantly: DO NOT MAKE THE COMBAT ANIMATION-HEAVY. I like blob combat, but I hate the way JRPGs always drag it out for far too long by giving every attack a lengthy COOL-LOOKING animation. It just takes too fucking long and after an hour of playing you don't give a shit about how cool the animations are and just want the combat to be quicker.

Indeed. SNES jRPGs are best played in ZSNES or another emulator with a fast forward button.

 

[Pope Amole]

Awesome. If you want suggestions for specific JRPG's to go to for research, I'm happy to provide suggestions.

Thanks, but can I also ask for examples of awesome, awesome combat in jRPGs? I mean, there have to be some. Because, in the end, combat system and exploration is pretty much everything I want to borrow from the genre.

Good, MC customization and roleplay-abiity is something I really in games. If your project ends up getting off the ground, I hope your group will have a developers' blog or forum or something.

Well, since we want to do an RPG as our third project(which gives us, like, 1.5 years before the start of development cycle), we'll definitely have something like that by the time.

What happened to wanting to create some RPG to implement some awesome gameplay mechanics for a change?

Anyway, if the story is supposed to be the main draw of the game, let's hear the pitch.

And what's wrong with wanting to tell a story? I mean, I look at codexian top-5 for the 2010 and I see five games that all can be characterized as "cool story, cool exploration, shit gameplay". Yet the codex loves them, so I'm curious, what does that mean? Besides, it's unwise to ask developer such questions - really, what do you expect to hear? Especially since we are totally and absolutely indie and don't have a couple of spare millions of $$ to brainwash our auditory, buy a couple of whores to the game reviewers, etc. We'll try to make every aspect of the game as good as we can, it's not like we have much choice in this department.

As for the story - as I've said, we're in the research stage right now. We're thinking about possibilities in RPG-making (while working on our first project which, unfortunately, is not an RPG), we have this idea, we have a couple of other ideas so we are appraising our graphical abilities at this moment, we want to be sure that we'll be actually able to finish what we want to start, and in a reasonable time too! And since each of those ideas requires quite different story, I haven't even started to think about it.

Give the player dialogue options. The fact that in 90% of JRPGs dialogues are completely linear and you're not even offered fake choices or anything. I just don't like it when the player character's dialogue is completely linear and you have no influence whatsoever on dialogues. So, please, add dialogue choices, don't make typical linear JRPG conversations.

Well, it's paragraph 6 in the opening post, western dialogues and stuff. I too hate that in jRPGs since this linearity often forces you to play as a character whom you deem utterly stupid, whom you loathe and despise and yet you're still supposed to lead him to success and victory.

Also, even more importantly: DO NOT MAKE THE COMBAT ANIMATION-HEAVY.

Oh, c'mon, if we had resources to make a game combat animation-heavy, do you think we'd be aiming for a jRPG and not a Fallout 1-2 or Planescape clone? They will be short, but due to the other reasons, I fear. But yeah, that's a horrible design point, even in Torment it was awful to play as a high-level mage since all those uber-spells took eternity to finish, and while they were awesome in the first time, the schtick quckly grew bothersome.

 

[JarlFrank]

Oh, c'mon, if we had resources to make a game combat animation-heavy, do you think we'd be aiming for a jRPG and not a Fallout 1-2 or Planescape clone? They will be short, but due to the other reasons, I fear. But yeah, that's a horrible design point, even in Torment it was awful to play as a high-level mage since all those uber-spells took eternity to finish, and while they were awesome in the first time, the schtick quckly grew bothersome.

Good to know, because this horrendously drawn-out combat (WHY DO I HAVE TO WATCH A 10 SECOND LONG ANIMATION FOR A SIMPLE ATTACK FFS) is the main reason why I usually react allergically towards the word "JRPG". If the combat is more like, say, Might and Magic/Wizardry/InsertSimilarBlobCrawlerHere, where combat animations are quasi non-existant and therefore quick, I approve of your project.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

What happened to this?

 

[Damned Registrations]

Good to know, because this horrendously drawn-out combat (WHY DO I HAVE TO WATCH A 10 SECOND LONG ANIMATION FOR A SIMPLE ATTACK FFS) is the main reason why I usually react allergically towards the word "JRPG". If the combat is more like, say, Might and Magic/Wizardry/InsertSimilarBlobCrawlerHere, where combat animations are quasi non-existant and therefore quick, I approve of your project.

Heh, I have sort of the same reaction to cRPGs. Of course, In cRPG, the 10 second animation isn't for an attack, but for an enemy pointlessly shuffling 3 feet to the left, or the retarded 3 minutes of whiffing attacks in Baldurs Gate between high AC characters. All the jRPGs I grew up playing had entire battles ending in 10 seconds more often than not. If a spell or attack took that long, it was either going to wipe out the entire enemy group instantly, or it was a boss fight and felt kinda justified.