Perfect length for a story-driven RPG?

[DriacKin]

This discussion does not pertain to RPGs that focus mainly on combat or dungeon crawling. Instead, let's just consider RPGs that place a large focus on their story/characters.

Very few story-driven RPGs are able to maintain a consistently high level of quality from the beginning to the end. Even a game like Torment had long sections where the game dragged and became somewhat tedious. Torment had a great beginning and a superb ending, but the 2nd act of the game is where it really slowed down and felt a lot like like filler content, imo. Same thing with other story-driven games like Bloodlines, Anachronox, Sith Lords, etc... They all started off well, but just were not able to maintain that level of quality. They all feel as if the developers took what was originally a 15-20 hour game, and added a bunch of filler to stretch them out to 35-40 hours. Perhaps you'll accuse me of being an impatient consoletard, but some of these games start to lose my attention after a while.

Compare this to a relatively shorter RPG like MotB. For the purposes of this discussion, let's ignore its shitty combat/camera. Imo, the game's story and dialogue remains consistently good all the way to the end. None of the missions feel as if they were thrown in just for filler. It might've only been 15 hours long, but it was 15 really solid hours. In fact, I'm glad it wasn't longer -- that they didn't feel the need to stretch it out any more.

I personally can't think of a single long(>30 hours) story-driven RPG that manages to avoid long tedious, boring sections. So, that being said, is there a limit to how long story-driven RPGs can be before they start to lose some of their effectiveness? Would these games be better if they just trimmed these parts, even if it means a shorter game?

:discuss:

 

[Darth Roxor]

I personally can't think of a single long(>30 hours) story-driven RPG that manages to avoid long tedious, boring sections.

Betrayal at Krondor

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

5-15 hours. With a non-linear story.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

I can't think of a single story-driven >30 hours RPG.

 

[Volourn]

PST for starters.

 

[JarlFrank]

I like long games, and wasn't bothered much by Arcanum's or PST's middle part. Still enjoyed both games immensely, although I did stop playing halfway through and then pick it up again a few weeks later.

The best length for a story driven game is, obviously, as long as it takes to properly tell the story without putting filler in it.

 

[DriacKin]

I can't think of a single story-driven >30 hours RPG.

Every major RPG BioWare has made since BG2 have been story-driven and also have been > 30 hrs. Bloodlines, Torment, Sith Lords, NWN2, Anachronox also fit this category.

 

[hoochimama]

There is no such thing as a "perfect" length for a story driven rpg, there might be a sweet spot when it comes to marketing because the console crowd just wants to rush through the main story and get their game finishing achievement. They don't like it neither too short nor too long, but that has little to do with what makes a good game, just with what makes it marketable.

But I'm not even sure if you're talking about the entire game's length or just how long it takes to finish the main story. RPGs typically have a lot of side content, it's one of the trademarks of the genre, this makes it so their length and pacing can vary a lot from player to player. Even their dialogs are written to allow for different pacings.

If you're just referring to how long a story driven rpg's main story lasts then the length should depend on the story, not some arbitrary number based on how long it took you to finish your favorite rpgs.

I thought MOTB was too short for its story and scope, and I also think that KOTOR2 got better later on. If some of these games lose their "pace" or quality the further you go(Bloodlines, Risen) it has to do with their development process, not the story's length.

 

[DriacKin]

The best length for a story driven game is, obviously, as long as it takes to properly tell the story without putting filler in it.

But, is there a limit? Are people bound to lose their attention if it goes on too long?

90% of modern films fall between 1.5 hrs and 2.5 hrs. They can only go on for so long before they start to become tedious and start to drag. Are there a few exceptions? Of course there are. But for the most part, people start to lose attention if a film lasts for more than 3 hrs.

Is there a similar limit in gaming? Do we inherently just start to lose attention after a while?

 

[hoochimama]

Flawed comparison, movies have length boundaries as you're expected to see an entire movie in one sitting. Spectator's physical capabilities come into question.(many theaters don't even have a break halfway through a movie)

A more correct comparison would be to reading a book. A book just like a game is something you do in intervals, are you going to argue for a perfect length when it comes to books? Will that number be about quality or marketability?(Dan Brown)

Hasn't this discussion been done 100 times before with far better arguments?

 

[SuicideBunny]

i think the problem is less the attention span of the consumer but rather the increasing difficulty of not losing focus and keeping track of all the branches and possibilities for the writers.

 

[a budda]

30-40h unless it's brilliant... which means 30-40h

can't forgive myself for 90h of complete waste of time with dragon age, should've ended at 30h

Diablo, on the other hand, was good for 300h so no rule here

more like game design than writing is what matters, you never get a story good enough to keep you for 30h unless all other aspects of the game are good, they just start to creep on your enjoyment and kill the last speck of pleasure (DA case, god i hate this stupid game)

 

[DriacKin]

Diablo, on the other hand, was good for 300h so no rule here

As I stated in my original post, I want to limit this discussion to story-driven RPGs. The Diablo series has always been much more about the combat and dungeon crawling.

 

[Droog White Smile]

A game can be of any length as long as it makes you come back for more.

FFS

 

[hoochimama]

i think the problem is less the attention span of the consumer but rather the increasing difficulty of not losing focus and keeping track of all the branches and possibilities for the writers.

But branching storylines haven't really been a concern in the majority of story-driven rpgs over the past decade, have they?

 

[JarlFrank]

The best length for a story driven game is, obviously, as long as it takes to properly tell the story without putting filler in it.

But, is there a limit? Are people bound to lose their attention if it goes on too long?

90% of modern films fall between 1.5 hrs and 2.5 hrs. They can only go on for so long before they start to become tedious and start to drag. Are there a few exceptions? Of course there are. But for the most part, people start to lose attention if a film lasts for more than 3 hrs.

Is there a similar limit in gaming? Do we inherently just start to lose attention after a while?

Depends. I thoroughly enjoyed watching the LotR movies, all three of them, extended editions, on one day. Sure, I had to make short pauses in-between and some parts dragged on, but overall they were awesome.

I also enjoy long fantasy and scifi epics. And I enjoy reading long books.

Thing is, movies, series and books usually focus on the story. It's a passive experience. Games also have gameplay, and gameplay can become tedious or boring. Bloodlines became tedious towards the end because there was so much filler combat. Dragon Age became boring halfway through because of horrible amounts of filler combat. The gameplay became so stale that the story lost all of its appeal (and it was a mediocre story to begin with).

Most story-focused games make us lose interest exactly at the point where the varied gameplay from the first half is replaced by tedious long dungeons with countless filler encounters.

Of course, this filler is only inserted because the devs want to artificially stretch the game's time to reach 50+ hours because it's AWESOME to have long games and it looks good on the box. But once gameplay becomes a boring, drawn-out and tedious affair, you get fed up with the game.

Story-focused games becoming boring halfway through is not the fault of the storywriters, it's the fault of the level designers who add countless filler combat or other similar gameplay-killers.

 

[Volourn]

"Every major RPG BioWare has made since BG2 have been story-driven and also have been > 30 hrs."

Bullshit.

NWN OC: 50+ hours

JE: Yes. 30ish hours

ME1: 35ish hours

KOTOR: 35ISH hours

ME2: 50ish hours

DA: 60ish hours.


If you push, ME/KOTOR can be done under 30 hours. Otherwise...
STFU

 

[Darth Roxor]

"Every major RPG BioWare has made since BG2 have been story-driven and also have been > 30 hrs."

Bullshit.

NWN OC: 50+ hours

JE: Yes. 30ish hours

ME1: 35ish hours

KOTOR: 35ISH hours

ME2: 50ish hours

DA: 60ish hours.

Good lord, learn what mathematical symbols mean, volly.

 

[MikeJahn]

"Every major RPG BioWare has made since BG2 have been story-driven and also have been > 30 hrs."

Bullshit.

NWN OC: 50+ hours

JE: Yes. 30ish hours

ME1: 35ish hours

KOTOR: 35ISH hours

ME2: 50ish hours

DA: 60ish hours.


If you push, ME/KOTOR can be done under 30 hours. Otherwise...
STFU

Wow you're a retard.

 

[DriacKin]

"Every major RPG BioWare has made since BG2 have been story-driven and also have been > 30 hrs."

Bullshit.

NWN OC: 50+ hours

JE: Yes. 30ish hours

ME1: 35ish hours

KOTOR: 35ISH hours

ME2: 50ish hours

DA: 60ish hours.


If you push, ME/KOTOR can be done under 30 hours. Otherwise...
STFU

FFS.


R00fles

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

I can't think of a single story-driven >30 hours RPG.

Every major RPG BioWare has made since BG2 have been story-driven and also have been > 30 hrs. Bloodlines, Torment, Sith Lords, NWN2, Anachronox also fit this category.

I count expansion packs such as HotU and MotB as single games. In my experience, the NWN games haven't been 30+ hour games, nor was BG2. Then again, I play fast. Then again, I assumed that's what the OP meant, that you weren't supposed to count side-quests etc.

 

[Ammar]

Well, it's hard to put a definite playing time on an RPG since it varies a lot from person to person. This being said Dragon Age and NWN 2 were certainly over 30 hours in length, Mass Effect and Jade Empire could easily be finished in less time without missing much, even on a first walkthrough.

 

[Volourn]

"Good lord, learn what mathematical symbols mean, volly."

FUCK.


:D :idea:

 

[Raghar]

Are you talking about story, or gameplay? FF XIII story is 10 hours. Gameplay is of course much longer. Basically some books are skipping these boring travel between point A and B, when the character tried to find the correct location. A game of course forces the character to search properly, and use hints around. There is also non story related stuff. For example all these sex scenes in DA, or archery contests, or arena fighting.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

Less stuff you have to do, and more stuff you can do. Main quest maybe up to 10-15 hours, but lots sidequesting. This makes the game replayable, and that's the biggest factor in making a classic. MOTB is a nice, compact game, though it lacks good sidequesting even if for an understandable reason. A bad example would be NWN2 OC, which is both long and linear, like was the Witcher. Damn Witcher felt an impossibly long and tiresome with the amount of running back and forth, dealing with chump enemies and chump people. Man, everybody was so excited about how great it was, and who can remember it now, after only a few years? I sure dont, damn collector's edition taking up space from my already cramped shelf.