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Rome Total Realism DRAMA! (no, not strategy. just read)

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
Now, I don't know if you guys follow the RTR mod for Rome Total War, but suffice to say it's got an excellent community and a healthy dev group producing it, all except for a guy named Tyr, who used to be the mod 'leader', not that he did anything, of course.

He was basically kicked out of the RTR group a couple of weeks ago in a coup d'etat by the modding team who considered him useless and even detrimental to the development of the project, due to certain issues with him stealing donation money (though this is difficult to prove). At that point, he agreed to step down and hand the reins over to one of the mod seniors.

Today, he shut down the website and put it up for sale at $1,500 dollars without the team's knowledge in an effort to cripple the community and destroy the mod that he "helped" to create. I think he's 16 years old or something, so he's basically just throwing a tantrum. It's really pretty pathetic.

Anyway, it's like watching a car wreck.

Here's the thread on the site being shut down: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32552

For a funny read, here's a log of him explaining his actions on AIM:
http://www.megasalexandrosmod.com/forum ... ic.php?t=3

He compares himself to Hitler and discusses the importance of rhetoric:
Whitls04: nobody would have joined with you
Tsorim: dont be so sure about that my boy
Tsorim: you need to learn information control
Tsorim: i could have been hitler, no one knew
Tsorim: thats a fine point in rhetoric
Tsorim: developers are a dime a dozen
I think he just read Mein Kampf.
 

DarkSign

Erudite
Joined
Jul 24, 2004
Messages
3,910
Location
Shepardizing caselaw with the F5 button.
Bringing down a website is one thing, but did he have control over their assets?

Did they have a CVS or SVN that he had root access to...then deleted or stole everything from?

A website is an inconvenience, but the assets are where the real gold is.
 

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
Bringing down a website is one thing, but did he have control over their assets?

Did they have a CVS or SVN that he had root access to...then deleted or stole everything from?

A website is an inconvenience, but the assets are where the real gold is.
Fortunately, they have all the assets and the server itself is under their control. They have only lost the domain.

What was RTR about anyways?
Quite simply, it was the best mod for Rome: Total War. It added historical realism and accuracy to the game and got rid of the more 'fantastic' parts of the game that didn't fit. They also did a total rebalancing of the units, AI and added a ton of new stuff, including graphics and factions.

I know Tyr for a liar. Here he is denying that he stole the donation money that mysteriously went missing after it was in his paypal account:
Tsorim: which the public doesn't know
Tsorim: is that no legal action can be taken against me
Tsorim: even if i did have money
Tsorim: which i dont
Tsorim: in fact i only lost money over rtr
I don't see how he could have lost money over RTR, especially since he was collecting donations and advertising money. Everyone else was doing it for free. Hosting isn't expensive, especially since RTR is hosted at Filecloud, fileshack, fileplanet, 3dgamers and Gamershell, so he was probably paying around 20 dollars a month at most, for bandwidth, and 10 dollars a year for the domain. That really isn't much.

With a Google advertiser he could have easily made 2-3 dollars a day. More than enough to cover any costs.
 

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
Update: They're suing his ass for fraud.

Dear fans,

The Rome: Total Realism development team is concerned about how the former project director Tyr was administering funds from donations and ad revenues. We are uncertain if any abuses were committed, but it is something that concerns us. We have requested information, and copies of records, however Tyr has of yet not been forthcoming on this issue.

We would prefer to dispense with donations and ads all together, but we do have expenses related to the forums and will have expenses in the future in regards to domain name, hosting, bandwidth, software, etc. The team is going to create a contract for all team members to vote on and sign to specify how the money will be used and how it will be dispensed at the end of the life of the mod. The money that will be collected will of course only be used for costs directly related to running the website and the forums. Some on the team have suggested we give the excess revenues to a reputable charity when the mod and its successors cease to be developed.

To ensure that no abuse is committed the team will elect a treasurer and an auditor. The treasurer will be responsible for collecting all revenues and paying RTR related expenses. The auditor will monitor the activities of the treasurer and regularly post a summary of the finances of RTR to the rest of the development team and the public. We hope that these changes will improve the transparency of the finances in our project and ensure that no abuses transpire.

- The RTR Team

N.B. There seems to be some confusion among members, these are not personal statments by me, but a statment from the whole team.


Update

There are many details we could have added to this post but felt since we couldn't provide full details do to conversations occuring on IRC at unexpected times and so logs where not set up it time. So all I have is my word and the truth.

Some of you may believe that Tyr was the heart and soul of RTR. And to an extent he was. And to a further extent he was an 18 year old kid that made alot of bad choices for RTR, choices you never saw. He continually made slanderous comments in public that sadly have hurt RTRs image in the community (and actually have caused us to lose the help of some very talented people). He wrongfully terminated several members and one member resigned simply because of Tyrs abuse. I had been told by several members that they wanted to leave RTR because they felt Tyr wasn't being fair and wasn't running the project effectively.

Then it came to our attention that our website recieves many hundreds of thousands oh hits each month (600,000 on the website, 1.1 million on the forums in the month of august) and even if a small fraction of those people donated we would actually be in the possesion of a fair bit of money. And so with these two things in mind the team came to the conclusion that it was time for Tyr to disclose to us what was going on with the donations account and that he also resign and allow a team member to be elected the new project manager.

He then told us that he could not supply the donation account history at that point, but that expenses on the website and things like the forum license had drained the account to 2 or 300 dollars. Tyr also claimed a $400/monthly fee for the hosting of the website (co-location rack) up until a month ago when we were sponsored by recongamer.com and offered free hosting. Upon contacting a recongamer.com representative to confirm this information, we were informed that we've been recieving free hosting not for one month, but since the start of may 2005. It should be noted our peak traffic in the last 6 months was june, july and august.

It was also revealed at that time he bought a team member a video card. After some debate on this issue of his abilities as a leader he resigned. Tyr was allowed to stay in the development IRC channel and follow the progress of the mod. However he stopped appearing a few days after. So I sent him an email asking if he could supply the team with the records of the pay pal account (paypal tracks all transactions with an account history feature that lists all incoming and outgoing funds). At which point he stated he could not. As the account was that of a "business associate" and he did not have access to the account and so could not provide me with the account details. He then said he would send me the last 80 dollars that was in the account (down from the previous figure of $200-$300). I have not heard from him since.

The days before we posted our message we learned more. Tyr actually runs a few other websites all running numerous adds to make money. So sadly all of this points to one thing for me and the team. That a person I considered my friend was cheating us and the community. I put this out only because there are those that questioned my motives when we posted the original letter. We have spoken to a lawyer and according to him Tyr has commited fraud (by stating that the donation money is to be used for website related costs) and we are lucky not to be associated with him anymore or else if the people that donated were willing to pursue the case we could have been in just as much trouble as Tyr.
 

Kthan75

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
410
Location
Bucharest
Codex 2012 Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Sol Invictus said:
What was RTR about anyways?
Quite simply, it was the best mod for Rome: Total War. It added historical realism and accuracy to the game and got rid of the more 'fantastic' parts of the game that didn't fit. They also did a total rebalancing of the units, AI and added a ton of new stuff, including graphics and factions.

I agree that RTR is a really cool mod for RTW. The added realism is fun and the new features, units and factions are great. However I can't say I agree with the "rebalancing of the units. I think the gameplay was a lotm ore balanced in the original game. I have finished Total War a couple of times in singleplayer and I have played a LOT of multiplayer battles (I have a guy at work, we used to play several battles every day). Of course, now we are playing RTR. I haven't got around to playing the game in campaign mode, but after some battles in multiplayer, we have come to the conclusion that the game is not that balanced.
In Total War, two players with the same amount of money could usually pick armies of about the same force (with some exceptions of course, some factions were simply less powerful). In RTR, I hate to say it, but if I invest in some heavy infantry and cavalry and I can afford only 3-4 unit stacks (cavalry costs a hell of a lot IMO) and the other guy gets only Clubmen and Indian spearmen and other units of the kind (mercs) and fills his army with those, I won't stand a fucking chance. We have tried this several times, in several combinations. The problem comes from the units prices, some of them are way too expensive while there are other units with about the same stats that cost half or less that amount.
And I hate the fact that all the factions have access to all the mercs in multiplayer, everybody will eventually have the same type of units as there are some mercs that are too good not to take.
My complaints are only about the gameplay in multiplayer, from what I've heard, the campaign rocks.

Sorry for the long and somewhat offtopic post.
 

RGE

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
773
Location
Karlstad, Sweden
Sol Invictus said:
He was basically kicked out of the RTR group a couple of weeks ago in a coup d'etat by the modding team ...
What an excellent (missed?) opportunity to have declared "et tu Brute", and for the modding team to have used knives. There is no such thing as bad publicity! ;)
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,683
Location
The Heart of It All
A bit off topic, but this is the sort of mod I would have liked to get my hands on. Though I enjoyed R:TW, it did have some historical inconsitencies that annoyed me, especially in terms of the units. Namely, the overpowered cavalry. In ancient times before the stirup, cavalry was a lot weaker than infantry in a head to head clash. Cavalry units also were only recruited from the nobility, for the earlier perioed anyways. Hence, no one playing a Roman faction ought to be able to mass produce them. They were a lot more manuevarable and faster, though. They got that right at least.
 

LlamaGod

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
3,095
Location
Yes
The mod used to have a different "leader" named GaiusJulius or something, he was pretty cool. Around 3.0 or so he lost his PC because of moving and stuff for a long time, so Tyr (who helped him and stuff) took it over.

GaiusJulis came back and just said alright whatever and just became a normal user. Tyr just talked about how Gaius never really did much and Tyr claims all the big changes to RTR (since the early versions were minor revisions).

But really, it was the RTR team as a whole that did the best stuff. Tyr did a decent job and could keep things going but he was too much of an ass and liked to claim things that didnt belong to him.

I guess he's just gotten that personality progressed now or something.
 

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
That Tyr guy kept stealing loading screens from some other guy, too, and used it in 5.4, which made the mod look bad to everyone at TWCenter, where RTR's former PR guy is a mod at. That guy kept trying to get the stolen screens removed (Because it made them look bad) but Tyr didn't listen, and got booted out of the team, called him a traitor to the mod for supporting 'rivals' like TWC.

It's pretty inane. It's worse than the Total Annihilation politics between TAUniverse and PlanetAnnihilation, the two big rivals. That, at least, was business related (PlanetAnnihilation, being a part of GameSpy... you get the picture) not over some imagined 'rivalry'.
 

Linedog

Novice
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
63
Location
San Francisco, CA
LlamaGod said:
The mod used to have a different "leader" named GaiusJulius or something, he was pretty cool. Around 3.0 or so he lost his PC because of moving and stuff for a long time, so Tyr (who helped him and stuff) took it over.

GaiusJulis came back and just said alright whatever and just became a normal user. Tyr just talked about how Gaius never really did much and Tyr claims all the big changes to RTR (since the early versions were minor revisions).

But really, it was the RTR team as a whole that did the best stuff. Tyr did a decent job and could keep things going but he was too much of an ass and liked to claim things that didnt belong to him.

I guess he's just gotten that personality progressed now or something.

As far as I remember, he was the original leader and designer; he worked with one other guy only. While he was off line these other guys took over without talking to him about it. When he camr back he got a really shitty reception and was locked out of further participation. I had originally constructed the "new provinces" mod for his RTR, but later made it available for anyone. (it is available for Vanilla and a version is also included in LT's mod) Couldn't stand the way he was treated. I felt they were basicly stealing his work. He is designing an interesting looking Punic War scenario with the map enlarged for the Western Mediterraenean.
 

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
Perhaps he shouldn't have gone offline for as long as he did. It's like leaving your moderately successful business with only a few middle managers to look after it, who have no clue as to where you are, only to return and find out that they turned it into a million dollar industry.
 

Avé

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
468
RTR is good, but not great.

Balance is really poor in it.


Good for a change from Vanilla though :)
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Mwahahaha, nice Yoda effect.
Not sure if it was intended, though :).
 

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