S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2: Heart of Chornobyl - coming November 20th

[Konjad]

It's just gonna be a Metro: Exodus-like game

 

[Gerrard]

muh A-Life
I'm fairly sure we've already had this discussion.

 

[Konjad]

muh A-Life
I'm fairly sure we've already had this discussion.

Don't worry, most gamers don't know what's a life

 

[Ryzer]

Dying from cringe.

Made in Ukraine, using a Russian book and appropriating Strugatsky's brothers work as well as a Russian movie but shhhhhh

 

[ciox]

Devs... I agree...

We all bleed Ukrainian!

But are you making a good game? Looks more like you are making Shadow of Chornobyl: The Netflix Series.

 

[Iucounu]

why wouldn't you show it?

Because it doesn't exist.

If you want to be optimistic, it could be that AI work does not have much to show before it's almost fully completed (unlike say level design, where you can finish work on just one small area and show). Also I recall the original A-Life inventor joined the Navy, which might delay work even more, even though others might be able to reverse engineer the original ideas. It could also be that even many old Stalker players are clueless about A-Life to this day, so trying to educate them (not to mention newcomers) about it would be a waste of marketing resources.

Come on man, put two and two together. They got the money from Microsoft, they'll get money from all the nostalgia driven players of the originals, they'll get the money from people who don't even care about the game but want to support Ukraine. Journalists will also love them because of that. And if anyone dares criticize the game, they will be accused of being a Putinophile and a fascist. It's a win-win situation for them. They can just put together a linear, setpiece driven shooter and call it a day.

Alas that seems more likely.

I don't even think something like A-Life would be possible in UE5, especially not with modern programming in games.

ARK Survival Evolved (using UE4) has similar AI with roaming creatures. A crucial difference is that ARK creatures go into stasis at a certain distance from the player, preventing true Stalker-like migration. But it seems possible to disable with the -PreventHibernation launch parameter (at least on Steam), so I'm sure there are no UE engine limits except performance. In the X-ray engine I've learned that a simplified "offline" version of the gameworld was used in order to improve performance, so maybe something like that would have to be custom made for Stalker 2. Or maybe today's PCs are powerful enough that such an offline version is no longer needed?

 

[deuxhero]

I'll be surprised if it actually releases, and be even more surprised if it isn't shit.

 

[ciox]

STALKER's A-Life was never that complex though. From what I remember once creatures were too far from you, or in another level, they were turned into abstract pieces of data, like numbers in an array.
These abstract pieces had very simplified pathfinding and behavior, and would perform a kind of RPG auto-battles to determine who won if they bumped into enemies, if they survived anomalies, and stuff like that. This is what made it possible for you to leave a level and then find all the stalkers dead while you were away. It's also why you sometimes found weird stuff like 15 perfectly cloned mutant corpses sitting in a circle. This abstraction is what made A-Life possible on old hardware.
Anyway, there's no reason why you couldn't do this stuff in Unreal, it would probably work the same way.

 

[Drakortha]

The developers would sooner spend their resources developing a 1st-Person cutscene where the player character is fighting off a Snork with a knife, rather than develop something like a-life. Because a cutscene fits better into their dumb trailers and it's more easily consooomable.

 

[Baron Dupek]

STALKER's A-Life was never that complex though

and yet concepts like this are nowhere to be seen in other games
almost like devs were not capable to make something like this... or anything that would make gameplay interesting

 

[Hace El Oso]

STALKER's A-Life was never that complex though. From what I remember once creatures were too far from you, or in another level, they were turned into abstract pieces of data, like numbers in an array.
These abstract pieces had very simplified pathfinding and behavior, and would perform a kind of RPG auto-battles to determine who won if they bumped into enemies, if they survived anomalies, and stuff like that. This is what made it possible for you to leave a level and then find all the stalkers dead while you were away. It's also why you sometimes found weird stuff like 15 perfectly cloned mutant corpses sitting in a circle. This abstraction is what made A-Life possible on old hardware.
Anyway, there's no reason why you couldn't do this stuff in Unreal, it would probably work the same way.

Yeah, it’s great. What else is there?

Anyway, there's no reason why you couldn't do this stuff in Unreal, it would probably work the same way.

And yet, nobody will ever do it.

 

[Gerrard]

STALKER's A-Life was never that complex though

and yet concepts like this are nowhere to be seen in other games
almost like devs were not capable to make something like this... or anything that would make gameplay interesting

It's almost as if it didn't add anything of worth to the gameplay, autist.

 

[Iucounu]

STALKER's A-Life was never that complex though

and yet concepts like this are nowhere to be seen in other games

I already mentioned ARK Survival Evolved, but The Long Dark also has a kind of faux A-Life. Animals will mostly roam within the small area where they spawned, but gradually move spawning location any time the player goes in and out of buildings (the latter loads separate mini levels), thus giving an illusion of long term migration. In addition to this, wounded animals seem to flee in semi-random directions (not sure about how that works, it seems they usually die in similar locations anyway). Bears and wolves may pick up your scent, close in on your location, and once seeing you start stalking you directly. Sometimes a wolf may (randomly?) get close to a deer or rabbit, start chasing it and sometimes kill it.

almost like devs were not capable to make something like this... or anything that would make gameplay interesting

I guess most studios lack the ambition, just like they no longer bother to make their own engines. Maybe it's also considered a waste of money on average players, that rush through every game they play without replaying any of them. But if you want people to keep replaying and recommending your games even after 15 years (like original Stalker) I think it's worth the investment.

 

[Ol' Willy]

The closest thing to A-life is AI in grand strategies like Civ or paradox map painters

 

[deuxhero]

X4: Foundations does simulate the entire world, down the supply chain for the lowliest fighter. There's simplified calculations if the player is far away, but the AI does build and can have their supply lines targetted.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

From the trailers, it looks like Stalker with updated graphics alright. I don't really get the hate. These days, it's probably a safer bet to assume it will be shit, but I didn't see anything particularly jarring.
SoC was a great game, but it was a mostly linear story romp with some repetitive side missions added for flavour. A-life was pretty basic and didn't add that much to the actual gameplay, it's probably not that hard to recreate it in Unreal.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Watched latest trailer, realized that they're using American voice actors and not Ukrainian actors speaking English with a Ukrainian accent.

Total fucking bullshit.

I'm a Ukrainian American who has never been to Ukraine and the main appeal of the original games were the genuine Ukrainian atmosphere, almost as if I was visiting Chernobyl and Pripyat in-person.

It doesn't make sense to use American voice actors in this context, it's about as bad as American movies that hire British actors to play a European character, regardless of whether they're from Brittain or not.

Fuck, I would accept American voice actors doing their best to speak with a fake Ukrainian/Russian accent, LOL... But I'll settle for using Ukrainian audio in-game with English subtitles!

Why would the characters speak English with a Ukranian/Russian accent?

When non-english speaking characters speak English in movies or games, they are not actually speaking English in-world. You are supposed to assume they are speaking in their native language, the use of English is just a device for the audience to understand the dialogue. So adding an accent to the dub is kinda dumb, although I agree it adds atmosphere.

I assume they will add a subtitle system to the game this time, so for maximum atmosphere you could just play it in Ukranian with English subtitles.

 

[Hace El Oso]

A-life was pretty basic and didn't add that much to the actual gameplay, it's probably not that hard to recreate it in Unreal.

So then, surely it’ll be included, right? Right?

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

A-life was pretty basic and didn't add that much to the actual gameplay, it's probably not that hard to recreate it in Unreal.

So surely it’ll be done then, right? Right?

I have no fucking clue man, at least they claim so on the website?

A-Life 2.0 life-simulating system builds a holistic live environment where player's actions have an impact on the world of the Zone.

The game might turn out shit for all I know, but I haven't seen any substantial complaints yet.

"The trailers show only scripted cutscenes" -> Yeah, I hate cinematic trailers too, but they really don't tell us anything about the gameplay and how often these cutscenes will occur.
"I just want to explore the zone, not follow some story" -> Fuck off Anomaly fanboys, the original game was mainly story driven. If anything, I assume the zone will be bigger and more open than in SoC.
"Difficulty will be dumbed down" -> Again, fuck off Anomaly fanboys. The original game was never some hardcore survival game, it was mildly challenging at times on master difficulty.
"Too much shooting, the game looks like CoD" -> the original Stalker was non-stop shooting
"It won't have A-Life" -> How the fuck can we know, the devs claim it will have.
"Why are they speaking English without accent" -> Just play the game with original VO and subtitles instead of using the english dub with silly accents.

Also, it seems many detractors are Vatniks who are butthurt the game won't be available in Russian/sold in Russia or some shit? I thought hohols were corrupt untermenschen that need to be exterminated, why would you want to play anything made by them?

 

[Konjad]

"It won't have A-Life" -> How the fuck can we know, the devs claim it will have.

but the dude responsible for it is dead, so whomever picked it up after him will have some work to get back to it

 

[Onionguy]

"It won't have A-Life" -> How the fuck can we know, the devs claim it will have.

but the dude responsible for it is dead, so whomever picked it up after him will have some work to get back to it

The guy responsible for A-life is Dmitriy Iassenev. Yes, he went to war, but as far as I know, there is nothing on him being dead. You must have confused him with Volodymyr Yezhov.

 

[Iucounu]

SoC was a great game, but it was a mostly linear story romp with some repetitive side missions added for flavour. A-life was pretty basic and didn't add that much to the actual gameplay,

A-Life is what makes freeplay (and replay) interesting. The actual quests (like "Bring the leg of a boar") are just excuses for the player to go out in the Zone and experience the A-Life. If you just play it for the actual quests you're missing 90% of what the game is about.

it's probably not that hard to recreate it in Unreal.

It shouldn't be, if the will and know-how is there. But all those cheesy cutscenes cost money too, and most game developers today seem unable to customize third-party game engines.

 

[Iucounu]

"The trailers show only scripted cutscenes" -> Yeah, I hate cinematic trailers too, but they really don't tell us anything about the gameplay and how often these cutscenes will occur.

If all these cutscenes were only made for marketing they don't make much sense to me, so I assume they'll be used in the game too. And (unlike the more vague, dreamlike cutscenes in SoC) it seems these are mostly used to deliver dialogs for specific quests, so in a worst-case scenario every single quest will have one.

"I just want to explore the zone, not follow some story" -> Fuck off Anomaly fanboys, the original game was mainly story driven.

No, in SoC you can freeplay as much as you like and explore much of the Zone (even many areas ahead of the plot) while ignoring the main story. Furthermore, much of the backstory and lore is only revealed by exploring and talking to random NPCs, something players rushing through the game will miss completely.

If anything, I assume the zone will be bigger and more open than in SoC.

Yes they claim it will have all the previous games' levels, and then maybe also new areas in between these levels. That may sound good for marketing, but it's a lot of space to fill with content.

"Difficulty will be dumbed down" -> Again, fuck off Anomaly fanboys. The original game was never some hardcore survival game, it was mildly challenging at times on master difficulty.

It can always be made dumber, especially if the goal is to help console gamers.

"It won't have A-Life" -> How the fuck can we know, the devs claim it will have.

I believe it when I see it. That marketing so far focuses on cutscenes may say something about the type of game GSC wants to make, or the type of consumer GSC is targetting.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Iucounu No, of course they did not create these scripted story sequences just for the trailer. Obviously they will want to replace the simple, text based dialogues with these scripted moments at least for major story events, to bring it up to what is considered the modern standard for these kinds of games. I also I prefer the way the original games did it.

My hope it that these scripted sequences and the dramatic talking will take place mostly in major story moments and not disrupt the in-between, moment to moment gameplay too much. Those story trailers obviously condense the scripted sequences.

 

[Harthwain]

"I just want to explore the zone, not follow some story" -> Fuck off Anomaly fanboys, the original game was mainly story driven. If anything, I assume the zone will be bigger and more open than in SoC.

Bullshit. You could take a break from the main story and just explore the Zone. In fact, most of my playtime was focused on me just wandering around (S.T.A.L.K.E.R. had great atmosphere that suited exploration). You could finish the story part really quickly if you beelined for it and it wasn't even that good (I'd call it serviceable, at best).

the original Stalker was non-stop shooting

True, but Stalker at least had semi-realistic take on shooting compared to more mainstream shooters out there (bullets could go off target, you had headshots, different ammo for different weapons, etc.), at least before you were in the endgame. You also had some light survival elements (I am including anomalies in that).