Silent storm ambivalence

[LCJr.]

I'd reccomend the SKS as the AK series aren't all that accurate. Plenty of cheap Yugo imports on the markets right now too. The M59/66 (SKS w/permenant rifle grenade launcher) are running around $110-160 depending on how nice you want the finish. The M59 is a direct copy and less common, going for around $140-160. The Yugo's aren't chrome lined is the only downside. I got real lucky last year and picked up a Soviet SKS for $150 last year, worth 2-3 times that to a collector. Glad I got it when I did if I would have let the guy keep it he was going to sporterize(read "Bubba-ize") it and ruin it for all enternity.

If you decide to go for the AK do your research there's a lot of the Romanian WASR's being passed off as AK's.

If you don't mind bolt guns get a Mosin. The guns are cheap and so's surplus ammo. I picked up one of these last year and now have 3(M91, M44, M91/30 ex-sniper) and 2 Finn M39's. Rifles and carbines go for $70-100. Ammo 50-70 a case of 880 but shipping adds about 50% to the cost. Still cheaper than reloading and most is very good ammo.

http://www.aimsurplus.com
http://www.samcoglobal.com
http://www.classicarms.us
http://www.coledistributing.com
http://www.gunsnammo.com
http://www.dansammo.com/
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/

2 mainly for collectors

http://www.empirearms.com
http://www.allans-armory.com

If you want to buy online and need an FFL transfer use these zipcode searchable lists.

http://www.sportingarms.com/transfers.asp

 

[bryce777]

Everyone has stupid things they care about more than they should, and our military's guns is one of them...
A 9mm Europellet pistol, a .223 Poodleshooter assault rifle, a .223 Poodleshooter machine gun? Yuck! Why not airguns? You can carry tons more BBs than bullets!
"But kingcomrade, what should we be using?" I hear you ask.
Why, a .45 pistol, a 7.62x39 (Russian) assault rifle (I'm going to be getting an AK variant or SKS soon, I love them to death), and a 7.62x51 (NATO) machine gun! I saev teh planat wiv IDuhs!

the only people who are likely to be using a pistol in earnest can use whatever they want, and many (maybe most) people can't shoot a .45 effectively.

We went round in circles with the .223 a while back and the conclusion was basically that you don't understand physics and should probably just eat a dick.

the 7.62s suck because they are not very handy, not great at range, and at close range they are shit compared to a mac 10, tommy gun, mp5, etc. etc. etc. etc. so if you want a mediocre weapon with no real advantages besides alleged reliability then go for it.

 

[Jason]

I can kick all your asses with my Daisy BB rifle, a handful of pills, and my glow-in-the-dark Virgin Mary statue in my back pocket. So back off.

 

[Human Shield]

I have a faster animations mod on SS to make the turns go faster; don't know why programmers aren't smart enough to speed through hidden turns at max CPU speed (like X-COM).

 

[LCJr.]

Recoil on a .45ACP isn't that bad. The fullsize models are extremely pleasant to shoot. I carry a Taurus Millenium and it's kick is surprisingly mild for it's size.

Pull out whatever physics you want nothing changes the fact the .223 is and always will be a varmit cartridge. All those lovely gel tests showing the bullets breaking in half and fragmenting tend to leave out the fact that the bullet has to enter the human body at a velocity in excess of 2500 fps to even break in half. For the M193 ball thats at 170m or less. For the slower and heavier M855/SS109 it's below 150m. For the chopped barrels M4's even less.

http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Zielwirk ... terns.html

Check out Figure 5.

The US Special Forces never have never been completely happy with the .223 and have been testing the 6.8 SPC for awhile now. Looks to be a very good cartridge and ironically almost identical to what the British proposed during the "Ideal Caliber" bussiness after WW2.

7.62x39mm isn't a bad cartridge and does what it was intended to do. You're right once it gets past 300m the drop makes hitting anything very difficult to say the least. Don't know what you mean by not handy? The rifles handle quite well to me. The Russians have a knack for making rifles that point well and let you get your sights lined up quick.

OK I'm done. Been through this debate one too many times already. Rather spend my time at the range than flogging this poor dead horse.

 

[kingcomrade]

the only people who are likely to be using a pistol in earnest can use whatever they want, and many (maybe most) people can't shoot a .45 effectively.

What? Have you ever fired a .45? The recoil isn't that bad, and a .45 is a much, much better stopper than a 9mm. Hell, my grandmother could handle a .45's recoil.

We went round in circles with the .223 a while back and the conclusion was basically that you don't understand physics and should probably just eat a dick.

Did we? Great, I suppose I've just take your word for it

the 7.62s suck because they are not very handy, not great at range, and at close range they are shit compared to a mac 10, tommy gun, mp5, etc. etc. etc. etc. so if you want a mediocre weapon with no real advantages besides alleged reliability then go for it.

Which one? 7.62 Russian and 7.62 NATO are very different cartridges, you don't know what the hell you're talking about if you are lumping them together. And you are telling me that pistol rounds are going to have greater power and versatiliy than an assault rifle round? Okay.
Not very handy, except that they go in assault rifles, which are designed for use at close-medium range. The 7.62 Russian is perfect for close-medium range, it's big without a lot of recoil (at the price of range, but assault rifles aren't sniper rifles and they aren't supposed to be), while 7.62 NATO has a lot more power and range (and recoil, which is why they are more appropriate in machine guns and semi-autos).

LC: They've been testing 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel, I'm pretty sure. As far as I can tell they're roughly the same in performance.
I am thinking about an SKS over an AK, I've got a thing for semi-automatic rifles. I've already got a boltie (vintage WW2, it's a Japanese Type 99 in bad condition, my great grandfather captured it from a Japanese arms locker when he was in the war).