Decline Something-Like Genres Are Decline

[StaticSpine]

Back in the day, games were just games. The devs made the games they wanted and didn't try to ape other successful titles. The games were different, even in the same genre. There were some cashgrabs and cheap clones, of course, but they didn't form genres.

After Dark Souls' success, we got Soulslike in the middle of the 2010s, which never spawned anything better or even close to FromSoftware's games. After Disco Elysium, we have Disco-like now, which also doesn't promise anything good.

Do you think it's because the industry has gotten bigger and studios want "guaranteed success" selling the already familiar concept, or are the developers less creative now?

 

[The Decline]

Lol, as if the history of gaming isn't filled with clones or *-likes.

 

[Fedora Master]

They can be good if the dev actually puts more thought into it than "just copy X". Most don't. So the term has become a red flag.

 

[luj1]

Agreed 1000%

 

[Üstad]

Do you think it's because the industry has gotten bigger and studios want "guaranteed success" selling the already familiar concept, or are the developers less creative now?

Why not both, those two support each other. Games are less of a passion project and devs would rather follow already proven patterns, they equate success and games value with the sales. Their approach is too pragmatic. And even in back in the days, we had lots of clones like Diablo clones for example.

 

[Necrensha]

It's a human thing to classify everything into little boxes that allow you to understand what it is with a single word.
Videogames are just another job for the majority of people, and let's be real: 99% of people do not give a shit about their job. Hence all the soulless clones of shit existing because ain't nobody gonna think of anything new and if they do they shall be fired out of fear of losing profits.
Did you know that there 2285 games classified as soulslikes on Steam? It's very fun to waddle through endless clones of the same thing!

 

[luj1]

It's a human thing to classify everything into little boxes that allow you to understand what it is

And it's satanic to reclassify everything

 

[itsme]

I cant stop being in awe from all these insightful threads monkeys here always manage to create. Yes, football was the best game and volleyball, basketball, handball and the like are all decline because they are 'balllike'. The retardation is immesearuable.

 

[Fedora Master]

I cant stop being in awe from all these insightful threads monkeys here always manage to create. Yes, football was the best game and volleyball, basketball, handball and the like are all decline because they are 'balllike'. The retardation is immesearuable.

A better comparison would be a new type of sport that has the exact same rules as soccer but worded slightly differently.

 

[luj1]

OP is right tho

 

[luj1]

The retardation is immesearuable.

INT roll failed

 

[tommy heavenly6]

It's just that the newer generations lack imagination when naming genres. They would be talking about "Doom-likes" instead of FPS games if transported to the past.

Do you think it's because the industry has gotten bigger and studios want "guaranteed success" selling the already familiar concept, or are the developers less creative now?

Copying successful formulas isn't a new thing.

 

[StaticSpine]

It's just that the newer generations lack imagination when naming genres. They would be talking about "Doom-likes" instead of FPS games if transported to the past.

Do you think it's because the industry has gotten bigger and studios want "guaranteed success" selling the already familiar concept, or are the developers less creative now?

Copying successful formulas isn't a new thing.

Sure thing!
But not proudly wearing that on one's sleeve.

 

[Maxie]

It's just that the newer generations lack imagination when naming genres. They would be talking about "Doom-likes" instead of FPS games if transported to the past.

Do you think it's because the industry has gotten bigger and studios want "guaranteed success" selling the already familiar concept, or are the developers less creative now?

Copying successful formulas isn't a new thing.

Sure thing!
But not proudly wearing that on one's sleeve.

If you fail to call something a -like then you're just inviting some retard to call it a spiritual successor
In the infinite vastness of crap games even well-meaning people try to anchor themselves using these shorthand meaningless phrases just to signify certain mechanics kinda work like they did in game X - they don't mention that the same mechanics failed to be fun in games Y and Z, because that would be to the new game's detriment

 

[Machocruz]

The two prime motivations that I see for such things are either to "cash-in" on a proven success, or to fanboy/pay homage to a thing they really liked. Neither of which is an interesting reason to make a game, to me.

But then I don't play genres, I choose games that look cool to me for whatever reason and then I accept and adapt to the rules the designer has decided for the game, or if I think it plays like shit or is boring, I don't.

And most people making or playing games today have grown up surrounded by 'remix culture' where things like sampling in music, homages in film, remakes, remasters, outright theft in the art world, etc. are rampant and/or accepted. Dipping into someone else's well before looking into your own first has been normalized for the creative process, and attendant notions that everything is a "copy" of something else and others memes. Most people immediately describe a game by citing several other games, which btw is of limited use and even totally useless in some cases. But to sell to the people, I guess it's wise to meet them where they're at, hence 95% of the blurbs for indie games on Steam are about how it's like this Classic of the 90s or has _______ like Elements; basically "It's that thing you love bro!"

 

[jaekl]

I wish they would make these soulslikes more like demon's souls and less like dark souls 3

 

[Alex]

Rogue-likes are great.

 

[Gerrard]

Back in the day, games were just games. The devs made the games they wanted and didn't try to ape other successful titles.

Bait or retarded? Unless by "back in the day" you mean "before 1990", but even then this wouldn't be true for non-PC games, which only shows how narrow your perspective is.

 

[Morgoth]

Game designers themselves approach making games like managers, not what they are passionate about. Of course there's still an actual manager standing behind them, reinforcing such rationale. The obscene focus on efficiency scares away developers at trial & error, a staple in figuring out novel designs.

The death of the professional gaming press and its replacement with Streamers also doesn't help in encouraging novelty, as Streamers are often too hung up with comparison-games and petty drama. It's hard to gauge any useful information from that.

And then there's the next indie game around the corner that completely refutes this retarded thread.

 

[JarlFrank]

Back in the day, games were just games. The devs made the games they wanted and didn't try to ape other successful titles.

Were you alive back in the day? Because it happened all the time, even before I was alive and I was born in 1988. By that time, there already were dozens of Ultima clones around that were completely unapologetic about being straight up clones.

 

[JarlFrank]

They would be talking about "Doom-likes" instead of FPS games if transported to the past.

Boy do I have bad news for you...

 

[StaticSpine]

Back in the day, games were just games. The devs made the games they wanted and didn't try to ape other successful titles.

Were you alive back in the day? Because it happened all the time, even before I was alive and I was born in 1988. By that time, there already were dozens of Ultima clones around that were completely unapologetic about being straight up clones.

I'm a bit older than you, but I didn't know shit about games until mid-late 90s.
And it was like, you have HoMM, Worms, Fallout, Tomb Raider, whatever, and none of the games were HoMM-likes, Worms-likes, etc. Even if they were of similar genre, they were different.

 

[JarlFrank]

Maybe you just didn't play enough games back in the day, then, because every majorly successful game spawned straight-up clones.

The mid-late 90s had Diablo and Diablo 2 come out, which were so popular they spawned a whole flood of Diablo clones.
Command & Conquer was cloned a lot, many late 90s RTS games play almost exactly like C&C.
In the early 90s, all FPS games were called "Doom clones" because they tried to capture its success (most of these were actually Wolfenstein 3D clones, lacking Doom's verticality).
In the late 80s and early 90s, a lot of Dungeon Master clones released. It became pretty much its own subgenre of RPG. Nowadays we have Grimrock clones because Grimrock revived that subgenre (itself being a Dungeon Master clone).
The original Rogue was made in 1980 and since then we've seen thousands of roguelikes pop up, starting in the early 80s.

Massive floods of clones were always a thing, it's just that today you're more aware of them with widespread digital distribution through platforms like Steam and GOG which let you browse by categories.
I pirated hundreds of games back in the day, and there were shitloads of clones among them.

 

[NecroLord]

They can be good if the dev actually puts more thought into it than "just copy X". Most don't. So the term has become a red flag.

"Yeah, you can copy my homework, just change it a little."

 

[StaticSpine]

Maybe you just didn't play enough games back in the day, then, because every majorly successful game spawned straight-up clones.

The mid-late 90s had Diablo and Diablo 2 come out, which were so popular they spawned a whole flood of Diablo clones.
Command & Conquer was cloned a lot, many late 90s RTS games play almost exactly like C&C.
In the early 90s, all FPS games were called "Doom clones" because they tried to capture its success (most of these were actually Wolfenstein 3D clones, lacking Doom's verticality).
In the late 80s and early 90s, a lot of Dungeon Master clones released. It became pretty much its own subgenre of RPG. Nowadays we have Grimrock clones because Grimrock revived that subgenre (itself being a Dungeon Master clone).
The original Rogue was made in 1980 and since then we've seen thousands of roguelikes pop up, starting in the early 80s.

Massive floods of clones were always a thing, it's just that today you're more aware of them with widespread digital distribution through platforms like Steam and GOG which let you browse by categories.
I pirated hundreds of games back in the day, and there were shitloads of clones among them.

Yeah, I agree.

My wording was incorrect. What I meant was that devs most likely weren't calling their games Diablo-like, C&C-like, or Doom-like. It was Action RPG (or hack'n'slach), RTS, etc. And players as well.