SPECIAL sucks, Roguey vs aleph on Arcanum, etc

[aleph]

Isn't that the guy responsible for complete trainwecks like Fallout and Arcanum systems?

Those can only be considered trainwrecks if you subscribe to Saywerism. Normal people consider them unbalanced, but interesting and fun.

 

[Excidium II]

Normal people

are scum. SPECIAL was interesting and fun when I was 12 and had never played a real CRPG.

 

[aleph]

are scum. SPECIAL was interesting and fun when I was 12 and had never played a real CRPG.

Are you now going to tell me that Fallout is not a real crpg but POE is?

 

[Excidium II]

w0t

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

PoE definitely has way better combat than either Arcanum or Fallout (not exactly a high bar there, though).

PoE is inferior in pretty much every other way though.

 

[Excidium II]

PoE is inferior in pretty much every other way though.

PoE has better grafics than Arcanum at least. It's totally impossible to avoid dry heaving and wondering where are the artists that worked on Fallout when you launch Arcanum.

 

[aleph]

Excidium II : You compare SPECIAL to what you are think are real crpgs, and look favorably on POE. It is then to get the impression that you consider POE a "real" crpg but not Fallout or Arcanum. Is it not so?

PoE definitely has way better combat than either Arcanum or Fallout (not exactly a high bar there, though).

Though in Arcanum and Fallout the character system has many applications outside combat. In POE not so much.

 

[Excidium II]

I meant Fallout 2 was my first real CRPG nigga.

 

[aleph]

I meant Fallout 2 was my first real CRPG nigga.

Then maybe you should learn to express yourself more clearly and use more precise language.

 

[Roguey]

Those can only be considered trainwrecks if you subscribe to Saywerism. Normal people consider them unbalanced, but interesting and fun.

Grogs aren't normal.

https://web.archive.org/web/2010021...-effect-2-is-the-future-of-the-rpg/index.html

Western RPGs don't fare any better. While most of them are already rich in character development, they are so weighed down by confusing combat systems and the always-imposing thought that you can break your character at anytime. Trying playing through the original Fallout or Fallout 2 without some sort of character guide so you don't make a useless build. Or take a look at Arcanum's character screen. While the game's story, world, and character progression are excellent, there are about 20+ stats that you can build, all of them vague and confusing. You never know which one to really build or where to invest. It's overwhelming and is just not fun at times.

There's your normality.

 

[aleph]

Grogs aren't normal.

https://web.archive.org/web/2010021...-effect-2-is-the-future-of-the-rpg/index.html

There's your normality.

You gotta be kidding, neither Fallout's nor Arcanum's character systems are rocket science. You don't need to be a grognard or read a character guide to build a somewhat competent character and finish the game. What you show is not the face of normality but of mental lazyness.

 

[Excidium II]

Then maybe you should learn to express yourself more clearly and use more precise language.

Maybe you should use your brian. Why the fuck would you even assume someone I'd be implying Fallout 2 is not a real CRPG and PoE is? Lurk moar FFS

 

[aleph]

Maybe you should use your brian. Why the fuck would you even assume someone I'd be implying Fallout 2 is not a real CRPG and PoE is? Lurk moar FFS

Well, you sound like massive retard almost every time you post. That's why.

 

[Excidium II]

Well, you sound like massive retard almost every time you post. That's why.

You're the obvious retard here, I urge you go back to lurking since you're very good at it.

 

[aleph]

You're the obvious retard here, I urge you go back to lurking since you're very good at it.

Not increasing my post count massively by shitposting, like you do, is lurking to you. I see..

 

[Excidium II]

Being called a shitposter by a GD cretin is some kind of honor.

Don't dare intrude on RPG systems discussion when you are completely ignorant on the topic, all you've done here is get incredibly butthurt someone called shit systems shit. looks like your GRPGD posting quota for the year was filled on this page alone.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Roguey]

You gotta be kidding, neither Fallout's nor Arcanum's character systems are rocket science. You don't need to be a grognard or read a character guide to build a somewhat competent character and finish the game. What you show is not the face of normality but of mental lazyness.

There are a lot of ways to make a bad character in Fallout and Arcanum if you just decide to make one match with a character concept without prescience of what the content will be like. Most people are bad at games. People who are good at them are a minority, therefore not normal. It's abnormal to be good at games.

Nice Straw Man buddy... I wasn't talking about content at all, unless you count encounter design or systems in general as "content". Or do you claim that changing the systems can't change my experience? If so, then I disagree...

If by experience you mean "it'll match up to my grognardy expectations" sure, otherwise it's pointless, just as Wasteland 2's redundancy is pointless.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Lets be honest here, SPECIAL was absolute garbage. Its just that most of us spend +200 hours learning how to work around all the flaws.

 

[aleph]

There are a lot of ways to make a bad character in Fallout and Arcanum if you just decide to make one match with a character concept without prescience of what the content will be like.

Okay, then give examples. Since there are supposedly so many ways, this should be easy.

Most people are bad at games. People who are good at them are a minority, therefore not normal. It's abnormal to be good at games.

Wrong, that's just a statement Sawyer made and you believe without question. And as an additional point, it doesn't matter who good people in general are at games, just the skill of the people who actually play and buy games matter.


Also, I wonder what happened to the codex? Where do all these people come from who have a problem with SPECIAL, want balance, all characters must be viable and all that stuff?

 

[aleph]

... all you've done here is get incredibly butthurt someone called shit systems shit.

Yeah, I get butthurt when some retard calls an interesting system with a myriad of options (and some flaws) shit and call him out on that.

 

[Excidium II]

Yeah, I get butthurt when some retard calls an interesting system with a myriad of options (and some flaws) shit and call him out on that.

lmao some flaws. SPECIAL is a flaw, what's hard is finding one aspect of the system that is actually well-thought. Everything from attribute gains to skill usage to perk selection to ap costs is broken.

 

[Duraframe300]

O what happened to the codex? Where do all these people come from who have a problem with SPECIAL, want balance, all characters must be viable and all that stuff?

Wut?

Arcanum's systems at least have been severly critizized on the codex for the longest time.

Everything is shit.

 

[aleph]

lmao some flaws. SPECIAL is a flaw, what's hard is finding one aspect of the system that is actually well-thought. Everything from attribute gains to skill usage to perk selection to ap costs is broken.

And still it allows for interesting builds and myriads of options. It just lacks any notion of balance.

Arcanum's systems at least have been severly critizized on the codex for the longest time.

Criticized sure, what game isn't criticized on the Codex? But severely? Not really. In the past Arcanum and it's systems were always considered a flawed gem and not outright shit.

 

[Rake]

In the past Arcanum and it's systems were always considered a flawed gem and not outright shit.

Not the same thing. I consider Arcanum's (and to a lesser extent Fallout's) systems bad, but i love the games.
I believe Excidium likes Fallout as well (one of his favorite RPGs to my understanding), he just considers SPECIAL bad. Games are not their systems.