Uncliched settings for a low/no-combat cRPG

[gluon]

Salutations, cunts.

I've been rolling plans around in my head for a dialogue-centric cRPG ever since I played Torment half a year ago; however, I've only recently begun actually working on it in earnest.

On the plus side for you codexers: I'm planning to implement a lot of what I've learned while lurking here. I'm making room for psychological vices in my character creation system (although they can also be obtainable by characters within the game itself), trying to present the player with as many choices (with significant consequences, of course) as possible, and implementing a no-levelling-up system akin to those suggested in the threads discussing just that from about a month ago (although there'll be character development in the form of gaining or losing characteristics--e.g. 'politically incorrect', 'arrogant', 'skilled marksman', etc.--based on the choices made within the game).

On the other hand, I'm still young in the ways of programming. However, this shouldn't be much of a problem, as I'm planning to structure just about all of the UI of the game around dialogue trees (including combat and possibly movement). But don't get me wrong, graphics whores--the game will still have graphics (though probably just my [somewhat] artistic depictions of in-game areas, characters, items, etc.).

But I've come across one teensy stumbling block: coming up with an un-cliched setting that would work (preferably well) for a high-dialogue, low-hack'n'slash cRPG. Ideas have been bouncing around in my head, but I'm at a loss as to which one is best. Here are a few:

1. Near future in a bioterrorism-induced apocalyptic setting. The world would be divided between the dystopian surface (most everyone dead or dying from a rapidly-mutating GM virus) and subterranean city-state-like arcologies built hastily while the disease was making its initial run on the population (in these, society is more utopian in nature to serve as a foil to the surface). Twist is, your character is one of a group of genetically modified humans who have enhanced DNA repair and correction mechanisms (which make them resistant to the virus) who the arco your character inhabits plan to send to recivilize the surface (TEH CHOSEN WUNZ). I’m sure you see where the inspiration is coming from at this point anyhow. If you think this sounds interesting, yell and I’ll elaborate.

2. Victorian steampunk political scape in a fantasy setting (but no elves/dwarves or FF crap) that also borrows aspects of society from the Enlightenment and Renaissance. Not too sure about what I could do with this one, though the concept is appealing to me. I had thought about making the potential storyline revolve around the advent of primitive space flight (of the Jules Vernian type), the technological race between states that surrounds it, and possibly the early stages of the colonization of another planet.

3. Possibly a political-type game set in the fictional South American country described in Joseph Conrad’s Nostromo, if only to create something that would have more appeal to people with brains. But the setting does have plenty of potential.

4. Anything better than these that you can think up (‘uncliched’ and ‘low-combat’ are key words here).


Preferably, the setting would be one where factions with political/philosophical bents would fit (as I loved ‘em in PS:T, but wished that they could be more fleshed out).

Anyhow, critiquing/adding to these and coming up with your own settings should be at the very least more cerebrally stimulating than all teh chefecomrade_brando (he/she’s the same shemale—even a lurker like me can see that) and Oblibion threads that have hijacked the forums.

So fire away.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

The first two fail the "uncliched" requirement and the first one seems to me an improbable way to satisfy the "low combat" requirement.

What immediately struck me as an option is something like a UN summit (or other diplomatic setting) -- set now or in the future, probably best done in a different world setting -- where the world is on the brink of a massive war. Having it a diplomatic setting makes the lack of weapons and lack of recourse to violence extremely plausible and also gives good reason for the heavy use of talking to resolve problems. A spy-thriller scenario ("brink of [whatever]") provides the proper motivation. That the player would have dossiers on other characters he meets provides a nice way to avoid the normal cognitive dissonance where the player doesn't know everything his character should know. Since negotiation is all about information -- the more you know about the other party's situation, the more effectively you can negotiation -- there's also a good reason to go around pumping people for info, skulking around, etc. The "brink" situation also lets you create a time-limit (or a perceived one), with the Doomsday clock ticking slowly toward midnight.

The biggest problem, of course, is the notion that diplomacy could really resolve a major crisis. I guess if you had something like the Cuban missile crisis going on, maybe that would work. Also, since it's a game, maybe people will cut you slack.

I would discourage you from using a historical setting like Victorian England, simply because the demands on researching are really quite high. (At least, they have been in my experience.) Using a contemporary setting also lets you have your characters speak naturally, which is a huge boon.

Anyway, that seems to be the best bet IMHO. Indeed, even now I'm tempted not to hit the "submit" button and squirrel this away for my own purposes. But I'd never make this game, and you might, so here it is.

I'm curious to hear what other people come up with.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I would recommend to start by outlining a story you want to tell the most and then figuring out what setting that story fits into the most. Then you can tweak the story elements creating a more original setting.

As for the somewhat original setting, I'd recommend several sci-fi variants: a peaceful (vs post-apocalyptic) future with some twists (PK Dick's The Variable Man - Earth prepares to war, computers calculate ever-changing odds, everything you do may change those odds, etc) or planet colonization (survival, development, acquiring power in a settlement in a variety of ways, dealing with alien natives/lifeforms/resources/artefacts, etc)

 

[bryce777]

Make it a courtroom RPG. I am pretty sure that has never been done.

 

[Jason]

There's one for the Nintendo DS. Don't remember the name, though.

 

[bryce777]

Wow, that' a surprise.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

Phoenix Wright, I think. There was also one made as an actual training tool for lawyers, but I can't remember its name. Apparently, it wasn't much fun. (Big surprise there.)

 

[Trash]

My fav idea? You arrive at an orbital station with little cash fleeing from a dismall earth. Instead of the futurist ideal you had hoped for, you arrive in a dying place where everything worthwhile costs. You've got to pay for air, food, place to stay and even waste management. If you do not pay, you're organs will do the job or perhaps a one way journey through an airlock is in order. How will you get the money to survive. Work hard, do illegal jobs, sell that kidney or hit the lottery? Everything counts, because soon the station authorities will want to collect.

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

I think a cyberpunk theme along the lines of Shadowrun would be a good... I'm biased thou

 

[gluon]

The first two fail the "uncliched" requirement and the first one seems to me an improbable way to satisfy the "low combat" requirement.

Yeah, neither are particularly new or creative, but each is really interesting to me, and I see potential in each for an RPG (although I know that at least one cRPG has been made in each category already). My goal is to take one of the ideas and (if possible) twist it into something new and original. Of course, it would take quite a bit of creative twisting in either of these situations.

I would discourage you from using a historical setting like Victorian England, simply because the demands on researching are really quite high. (At least, they have been in my experience.) Using a contemporary setting also lets you have your characters speak naturally, which is a huge boon.

Actually, this exact reason is why I shy away from doing an overly diplomatic game set in the real world--I would be too afraid of making it unrealistic (which kills its believability if it is indeed set in the real world).

And speaking of Victorian England, while the mannerisms of the day might take a bit to master, I think that they would help give the game a bit more personality--which is a huge priority for me in my game (how many games have you played that are set in Victorian England (or a derivative setting), anyways?). I'm also already something of a Dickens scholar, as I read most of his books when I was smaller--so mastering the language shouldn't be too much of a problem. Of course, there's always the issue of the setting having been cliched in the other media of entertainment...

 

[WouldBeCreator]

A Dickens scholar, eh? Okay. I'm not sure that being a Dickens scholar qualifies you to write steampunk Victoriana, though, since I never found his style to be consistent with the popular steampunk voice. But, it's your call.

Even if you can affect the voice, though, it's still an affectation, one that can be hard to maintain consistently. It's a big burden to take on, especially if your game is all text. Moreover, the Victorian tendency toward elaborateness seems to be something you should want to avoid in a game. Longwindedness, unless it's mine!, is just going to turn your text trees into quagmires.

Actually, this exact reason is why I shy away from doing an overly diplomatic game set in the real world--I would be too afraid of making it unrealistic (which kills its believability if it is indeed set in the real world).

Yeah, I wouldn't use the real world. You could always have it an alternate reality Victoriana League of Nations!

 

[gluon]

I would recommend to start by outlining a story you want to tell the most and then figuring out what setting that story fits into the most. Then you can tweak the story elements creating a more original setting.

Hmm...I've been trying to go about it in just the opposite way--trying to create a framework with events and character that I could wrap a story around. I'll have to give your way a go, as mine seems fruitless in coming up with a likable, original setting.

As for the story I'm wanting to tell--give me a second to articulate it to myself and I'll get back to you.

As for the somewhat original setting, I'd recommend several sci-fi variants: a peaceful (vs post-apocalyptic) future with some twists (PK Dick's The Variable Man - Earth prepares to war, computers calculate ever-changing odds, everything you do may change those odds, etc) or planet colonization (survival, development, acquiring power in a settlement in a variety of ways, dealing with alien natives/lifeforms/resources/artefacts, etc)

I had actually been thinking a little about doing the latter idea, but I don't have the programming experience necessary to create the emergent systems and AI that I expect would fit naturally in such a setting. But as for the setting itself, imagine this Bradbury-esque scenario:

In order to escape a globally-warmed, disease-ridden, population-overloaded earth, humans construct and place gigantic mirrors in Mar's orbit above the polar ice caps. Over the course of 200 years (not all that realistic--a different setting device would be better), the polar ice caps have begun to melt and released large amounts of CO2 into Mars' atmosphere, heating the whole planet gradually via the greenhouse effect. Next, humans seed the planet with earthling foliage, which begin to infuse the atmosphere with oxygen. Finally, a shuttle-full of settlers is sent--you among them--to colonize Mars.

From here, you could have the option to play to the rules of the small-scale socialism that is the default style of government for the settlers and do the jobs you're assigned, or you could try to gain influence over them and establish yourself as a sort of 'tribal' leader. You could even choose to sever communications with earth and devise a plan to kill or force into slavery any new settlers that arrived via shuttle.

Eh...don't know why I'm trying to come up with all this, as this system obviously lends itself better to emergent systems and the like. Good idea, though, I think.

 

[LCJr.]

I'll second the colonization theme it's something I've wanted to see in an RPG for a long time.

I have a vague idea but I'm not sure how doable, entertaining or replayble it would be. Have it set up so the AI colony is doomed to fail. The players actions would have real consequences in either accelerating/delaying the failure or even making the colony viable. I've seen a lot of complaints about how in most RPG's the characters action have no real impact on the gameworld. Something set up like this would give your character a real effect on their surroundings.

Also as a possible setting choice how about the "real" West, as opposed to Hollywood's Wild West shoot'em ups. Player would have the opportunity to be a settler, merchant, explorer, prospecter, etc... Fairly large time frame to work with since the westward expansion covers a few centuries. Doing it immediately prior to the Civil War would give the opportunity for some serious moral choices and politics i.e. "Bloody Kansas" for setting.

 

[gluon]

A Dickens scholar, eh? Okay. I'm not sure that being a Dickens scholar qualifies you to write steampunk Victoriana, though, since I never found his style to be consistent with the popular steampunk voice. But, it's your call.

Heh--I didn't mean I was a Dickens _scholar_ in the literal sense, just that I'm familiar with the style of his works and have been able to emulate it passably when required by my lit classes. And who cares if its not consistent with the popular steampunk voice--I'm going for originality here, ya know.

Even if you can affect the voice, though, it's still an affectation, one that can be hard to maintain consistently. It's a big burden to take on, especially if your game is all text. Moreover, the Victorian tendency toward elaborateness seems to be something you should want to avoid in a game. Longwindedness, unless it's mine!, is just going to turn your text trees into quagmires.

redding is teh hard, eh? :D

This is something that I thought about when considering how the style would carry over into a fictional setting (which is what I have in mind). My conclusion: scrap the longwindedness, retain the flowery vocabulary, mannerisms, and customs. It's not the real world I'm going for with this setting idea; just a Jules Vernian future on a different planet, or something like that.

 

[Thrawn05]

I was always thinking of an RPG where you are trapped alone on a completely alien world (somewhat like The Dig). Combat will not be an issue, but instead the speed at which you solve the various puzzles will allow you level up (or ever how you finished them). Leveling up will allow more dialogue options (a better understanding of the alien citizens) and allow for a "easier" time with harder puzzles (that is, although whatever the puzzle is, you sudden realize a piece or a part or something in the world that would allow you to make the puzzle easier or bypass it completely).

 

[Jed]

How about the soccer field?

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Well, the colonization idea sounded neat to me. I gotta tell you, though, once things go past the dreaming stage, it all gets not fun fast, and few people ever finish. Especially if your programming isn't strong, I'd try to get a team together that will actually put forth the effort once the not fun phase starts. I think Vault Dweller is the only person I've seen who's neat "new game I have a idea for and what do you guys think" has actually panned out or even gotten close. Guess that's being a bit of a killjoy, just thought I'd mention it.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

Especially if your programming isn't strong, I'd try to get a team together that will actually put forth the effort once the not fun phase starts.

I agree 99% with WwtS, but I'll just add that getting together a team is probably a bad idea. A better idea is to conceive of a project that can be done without a team, which you seem to have done. Managing a team is laborious and often winds up distracting from the main work. If the project is going to survive, it will survive because of your diligence, not your team members'. I would work on it and see if it takes off, and if it does, *then* add people in. This seems to be your model, so I back it.

I'd also work on a macro-level before you dive into the micro stuff. That is, come up with the basic conflicts, the basic resolutions, and then figure out how much flexibility to give the player in resolving them. You don't want to fall into the fractal trap, where you never move forward because you're adding infinite details at the first juncture. Get the gross plan out, then fill it in.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

On the other hand, I'm still young in the ways of programming.

Stopped reading here.

Learn to program, then we'll talk.

The more time you waste 'designing,' the faster your chances drop at actually doing any work.

 

[gluon]

Well, the colonization idea sounded neat to me. I gotta tell you, though, once things go past the dreaming stage, it all gets not fun fast, and few people ever finish. Especially if your programming isn't strong, I'd try to get a team together that will actually put forth the effort once the not fun phase starts. I think Vault Dweller is the only person I've seen who's neat "new game I have a idea for and what do you guys think" has actually panned out or even gotten close. Guess that's being a bit of a killjoy, just thought I'd mention it.

Nah--it's being realistic.

And that's why I partially discounted the idea of doing a planet-colonization-type game--I simply wouldn't be able to give it the attention it would deserve. A game that would be doable on my level would have to be a low on graphics and high on dialogue/textual descriptions; in other words, not what exactly what I'd expect from a colonization game. Especially since I can program graphics about as well as a calculator can write a literary analysis.

I should have put 'lo graphics' rather than 'lo combat' in the title of the thread (although my atm hypothetical game will be both in all likelihood).



EDIT @ WouldBeCreator & UDH:

I agree 99% with WwtS, but I'll just add that getting together a team is probably a bad idea. A better idea is to conceive of a project that can be done without a team, which you seem to have done. Managing a team is laborious and often winds up distracting from the main work. If the project is going to survive, it will survive because of your diligence, not your team members'. I would work on it and see if it takes off, and if it does, *then* add people in. This seems to be your model, so I back it.

This is exactly what I have in mind, WouldBeCreator. I'm not making an AoD by any means--far from it. I just noticed that the best parts of Planescape: Torment were in its stat-based consequence-laden dialogue. Turns out (luckily for me) that not a whole lot of leet haxxoring skills are needed to make a game out of this (though you should note that I don't plan on making a mere IF--I plan on doing something similar to what PS:T would be without the crap combat and crap Infinity Engine.
EDIT: All under the assumption that my writing could be one fifth as good as Avellone's, that is.

I'd also work on a macro-level before you dive into the micro stuff. That is, come up with the basic conflicts, the basic resolutions, and then figure out how much flexibility to give the player in resolving them. You don't want to fall into the fractal trap, where you never move forward because you're adding infinite details at the first juncture. Get the gross plan out, then fill it in.

This is what I'm trying to do in asking for the hivemind's enlightenment on what a good setting for the type of game I'm trying to make would be. What I meant by saying that I had the framework down was that I had a character creation / development system that I could easily modify to fit the setting.

I guess I could've been a little more articulate in my first post about my goals. Oh well--better late than never.

 

[kingcomrade]

undead dolphin hacker is so 1337

 

[WouldBeCreator]

BTW, gluon -- have you looked into using TADS or INFORM or, if you want some graphics, Glulx? Those are all "interactive fiction" systems, but they probably could accomodate your goals pretty well, especially if you programming is limited. Of course, if you're less concerned with giving the player freedom of action and more concerned with giving him meaningful choices, I don't think a text parser is the best system. (You end up having to account for tons and tons of irrelevant choices.) And a menu-driven game is easier to program in just about any language than interactive fiction is in any of those three. Still, I thought I'd toss the idea out.

Also, as a counter-point to WwtS's message -- even making a game and failing can be a lot of fun. I would commend to you sharing it early and often, though, as eager fans is the best incentive to keep working.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't have the programming experience necessary to create the emergent systems and AI that I expect would fit naturally in such a setting.

Nothing beats good old fashioned scripting and well designed situations.

 

[gluon]

@ WouldBe and undead dolphin hacker: see the ninjedit in my previous post

Nothing beats good old fashioned scripting and well designed situations.

Keen on the planet colonization, eh? Well, I suppose I could try fitting it into the character system I've put together. The art would be a little easier to do as well (I'm not sure how well I could draw an original-looking steampunk metropolis).

In that case, critique and/or add to the framework idea for a colonization setting I wrote up earlier. Or list your own ideas on what would make a good framework

First of all, what sort of style should I shoot for in such a setting? Should I try to stay realistic, or should I go for a sort of Bradbury-esque retrofuturistic style (ala Fallout, sortof)? Personally, I think that going retro would be safer and save me the hassle of having to come up with all kinds of quasi-scientific rationalizations for everything. Note: this only applies if the destination planet is Mars or an equivalent.

And about the aliens you mentioned--should they be included or not if Mars is the destination? I'm not too keen on 'em, as I'd like my game to retain a little credibility. Interhuman interactions are interesting enough as it is, especially, I'd imagine, when you remove them from society (brings to mind Heart of Darkness, a book that I could look to for theme material if this is the way I want to go).

 

[kingcomrade]

I think there was a thread a while back where we talked about prospective settings, and one of the ones that came up on a lot of people's list was a game set inside the Solar System involving colonization. Take a look at this thread:
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10910

I also vote for no aliens. As for the rest, it's up to you, make whatever you find most interesting. I'd be interested in seeing a 'realistic' tech (no hyperdrives or blaster cannons or whatever) with an emphasis on cybernetics and bioengineering.