Why is titan quest so bad

[aron searle]

So I am bored, and just removed from inventory a copy of titan quest to see if it was worth buying.

On paper it's pretty similar to diablo, which I enjoy, but it just bores me.

Now, caveat, I have only played it for a few hours.

The game play is pretty much identical to diablo, though the it seems just slightly slower in reaction speed, but not vastly so.

The atmosphere is OK, not as grim dark (birds chirping lol), but the graphics are good enough in terms of art direction.

Skills. I think it's the skills that let it down, I think. Firstly the descriptions suck donkey balls, I pick for instance a lightning spell (can't remember which one), only to discover it has a 5 second cool down, making it pretty fucking useless, but hey ho. Again, I am only level 10, but I chose an ice/lightning build. And it seems the skill list is pretty tiny in respect to what you can use, so you pick ice bolt, and then it seems that is basically it. Skills don't synergies with each other, so picking another spell just leaves the main attack weak. Maybe the game throws enough points at you later that you can max several?

I mean, is that it, is that all it takes to make something that is diablo like bad?

The thing about diablo is that although as a sorc you also start with just 1 spell (like fireball), it synergises. So no points are wasted. And if you go for say a meteor build, you'll pick fireballs, inferno, meteor (and hey chuck in 1 point in hydra for fireball synergy).

I can't really say why, because on paper the skills are so diablo like. But they just seem so utterly BLAND.


?

 

[racofer]

It sucks because it's not diablo.

 

[Misterhamper]

Download the Underworld mod and report back if you like it better then. Overhauls the whole game pretty much.

 

[Mastermind]

You can buy back skills at the mystic (not sure if that was added in the expansion or not). It's a great hack and slash rpg with a fantastic character system. I should add that I played very little of it without cheating. I used defiler to boost up experience and loot gain rates, otherwise the progress is just way too fucking slow for a single player game.

Also, you're wrong about synergies. Some skills exist only to make other skills better, and not just boost damage, they actually change the way a skill works (IIRC, the shard boosters increase the number of skills and make it spammable). The idea behind good character creation is to get a variety of skills that compliment each other well. There's a shitload of viable builds. Way more than in diablo 2.

 

[Raapys]

Same here. Game just ends up being boring.

The skills are, for the most part, uninteresting. The default movement and attack speed is too low. The pace in general is too slow. The atmosphere is completely wrong( I once tried turning the brightness almost all the way down in a dungeon; at that point it started looking like it should have in the first place). The Greek theme is boring. It seems pretty much impossible to find any interesting items on Normal, so you end up shopping for them instead. No random maps. Largely uninteresting and uninspired enemies. Probably lots of other small details I can't recall at the moment.

So yeah, very disappointing clone as far as I'm concerned. Still looking forward to Grim Dawn though. Period content was a disappointment, but other than that it seems very much improved.

 

[Lightknight]

I pick for instance a lightning spell (can't remember which one), only to discover it has a 5 second cool down, making it pretty fucking useless

Ah, but it can hit at truly insane ranges, if you happen to see a few kilometers ahead from a cliff, for example. I dont remember exactly, but i also believe it has a small area of effect as well.

fantastic character system.

No, it sucks monkey's balls. Very low value on character points, even lower than in Diablo. WAAAAAY too many special damage types. 99% of builds are of the "one-skill-spam" variety...

There's a shitload of viable builds. Way more than in diablo 2.

But they are all exactly the same !!! In each school there's some weapon enchant skill, projectile skill, pet skill, area skill, and a bunch of passives.

Largely uninteresting and uninspired enemies

Bosses were pretty cool though. Also feels great to go back to the previous areas with a strong character, whack a satyre and watch him flyyyyyy.

 

[JrK]

My reasons for not liking TQ even though I liked the skills system:
- Pacing is way off, too many repetitive random mobs before getting anywhere.
- Items are a mess. Too many of em and too much crap.
- Some skills are good, some aren't. Badly balanced. The Dream skilltree is way too useful, rogue is weak as is nature.
- Takes too damn long to get to any interesting skills and you have to invest too many points in em. Blah.

 

[Mastermind]

No, it sucks monkey's balls. Very low value on character points, even lower than in Diablo. WAAAAAY too many special damage types. 99% of builds are of the "one-skill-spam" variety...

I don't think so. A lot of the skills that are good on mobs are shit on bosses (and vice-versa). There are some one skill spam builds (though I can't really think of any tbh, but nobody forces you to make one. I actually have so many skills on the last character I built that I don't have enough convenient hotkeys available (and yes, they are all useful) for them.

But they are all exactly the same !!! In each school there's some weapon enchant skill,

There's 4 weapon enchant skills. all of them do damage, but also have unique skills (earth one adds armor and storm one adds retaliation). The rogue has two of them, one for just damage and a second one which can poison but whose primary purpose is crowd control via slowdown and confusion (very useful with the throwing dagger skills).

projectile skill,

There's a bunch of projectile skills. warfare and defense have none. However, they are hardly alike. There's too many to go through them all, but the rogue throwing daggers are useful for spreading weapon/enchantment effect to multiple enemies, storm's ice shards act like an autoshotgun, fire's are shit, dream's debuffs, etc.

pet skill,

This is true but the pets are hardly the same. Core Dweller is a tank. lich is an indestructible god that also deals % damage so he can trash bosses very quickly with the right build. nymph is an archer and shit. wolves are expandable tanks. mastermind buffs other pets. ancestors are good temporary tanks. Outsider is a good temporary attacker. Etc.

area skill,

I wish. Area skills in this game don't usually cover all that much area.

and a bunch of passives.

And a great deal of other unique skills. Like the destructible banner from warfare that boosts nearby allies. Or spirit's possession and anti-undead wards and fear inducing skill. Or hunting's lure that attracts monsters and can be rigged to blow up. Plus, since you can get gear with -100% recharge and mana cost you can make builds based on spamming skills that are not meant to be spammed. Like lightning or daggers.

 

[Padre]

My reasons for not liking TQ even though I liked the skills system:
- Pacing is way off, too many repetitive random mobs before getting anywhere.
- Items are a mess. Too many of em and too much crap.
- Some skills are good, some aren't. Badly balanced. The Dream skilltree is way too useful, rogue is weak as is nature.
- Takes too damn long to get to any interesting skills and you have to invest too many points in em. Blah.

- Agreed
- That too. I don't know why can't someone just fucking copy d2 item model. I tried most of the ARPGs and they all suck at it. Too much, too useless.
- Dream is overpowered as it's the expansion selling point. Rogue was always a second mastery. I have a ranger now and didn't even bother to skill up nature as of lvl 30. Not many useful skills there, when I hit epic I will get wolves to tank for me.
- Again, spot on. The idea to waste 10 levels just to get up the skill tree to GET skills is flawed and slows down the game too much.

 

[Mastermind]

Badly balanced. The Dream skilltree is way too useful, rogue is weak as is nature.

Both rogue and nature are excellent with the right builds. The only genuinely weak tree I can think of is earth, though I haven't experimented with it much either so for all I know there are some good builds for it too.

 

[Lightknight]

I actually have so many skills on the last character I built that I don't have enough convenient hotkeys available

Then such a character is worthless. The entire concept of synergies and game design based on that concept are such, that it forces the player to concentrate on a small number of skills. Diablo 2 pre-synergies had variety. Post-synergies its a "one-skill-spam". TQ never even had a pre-synergies stage.

Like the destructible banner from warfare that boosts nearby allies. Or spirit's possession and anti-undead wards and fear inducing skill. Or hunting's lure that attracts monsters and can be rigged to blow up.

All these are barely worth anyone's time.
Except if you play with a self-imposed challenge or something. Otherwise, for example if your main school is hunting - there is zero incentive to use anything other than the splitting arrow.

 

[Deakul]

It isn't.

 

[commie]

What's the fascination with these games, builds and such when it all boils down to spamming the attack button with whatever weapon/spell you have equipped? A truly interesting H&S would have you need to switch weapons from bludgeoning to slashing or modifying spell attacks to bypass immunities of creatures to certain attacks. As it is, you build up your character with 2H, 1H, polearm or whatever but the actual combat against a particular creature is exactly the same, with just a different animation and the usual 2h is slow but does more damage while 1h does less damage but is fast bit. Sure there might be some minor difference when a fire creature is immune to fireball, but that just means you switch to ice missile.

Without any depth in the actual combat, raging at a game having less redundant skills than another is fairly moot, as skills are the equivalent of a Bethesda paper doll dress up option, making your character look different in combat while gameplay is virtually identical.

 

[Castanova]

Sorry, but playing rock-scissors-paper with weapon types and elemental resistances is the opposite of "truly interesting." It means there's only one correct way to beat enemies and only the dumbest of the dumb will be unable to figure it out.

Diablo 2 was fun partly because the different spells/abilities were pretty unique and, by and large, it wasn't possible to play rock-scissors-paper with just you alone versus the enemy. You needed a party to fully handle all the game's challenges.

 

[Mastermind]

Then such a character is worthless.

This is the codex so it's hardly unexpected but... you are grossly ignorant as far as this game is concerned.

The entire concept of synergies and game design based on that concept are such, that it forces the player to concentrate on a small number of skills.

This particular build is unorthodox in that I use items to bring my recharge rate down to 0 (a rather monumental task of you play untweaked actually). The reward for using difficult to find gear that otherwise doesn't actually help your build one bit is that skills that used to be support can now be used as the bread and butter of my build, and together, spirit and warfare have quite a few such skills. To call the build worthless is absurd, I can plow through nightmare hades with ease. Occasionally I can bring half the level's monsters with me since I can now spam enslave spirit so hades can get gang raped by his own bitches. You'd be hard pressed to find a more effective build. I don't NEED every skill I maxed for it, but they all certainly have their uses.

All these are barely worth anyone's time.

Except if you play with a self-imposed challenge or something.

I don't gimp myself for challenge, I come up with interesting builds and test them. They usually work because the developers have done a fantastic job balancing the game to make sure nearly every skill has some use.

Otherwise, for example if your main school is hunting - there is zero incentive to use anything other than the splitting arrow.

I have a hunting/dream thorny maul build that never touched the marksmanship tree and has absolutely no real issues in nightmare. Hunting is quite frequently used in melee piercing damage heavy builds due to the bonuses it confers in this area.

 

[Aothan]

I have just recently acquired my second copy of Titan Quest and am very much looking forward to playing again. Whenever I can gather the will to watch Steam gradually download eleven gigabytes. As something of a hack n slash enthusiast I think I can say that Titan Quest was always going to be monotonous for a number of players, it is one of the 'flaws' (as flaws are going to be defined) of the game's design, a more even presentation through pacing would have improved Titan Quest's standard reception.

if you're computer has sufficient hardware I strongly endorse the adjustable camera mod, even or especially with your first play-through, it is a simple enough addition which enables perspective to the game's otherwise confined dimensions. Actually, with slightly better hardware the camera mod is the main reason I am looking forward to playing Titan Quest once more, I'm also interested in eventually trying the overhaul modification which others have mentioned.

 

[Reject_666_6]

It's a good game. I'm surprised Mastermind likes it so much, but he's pretty close to how I feel about it. Never played the underworld mod though, so maybe I'll get to that later.

 

[Gregz]

It's a good game. I'm surprised Mastermind likes it so much, but he's pretty close to how I feel about it. Never played the underworld mod though, so maybe I'll get to that later.

Yeah, TQ with the expansion is worth playing through once.

Imo Divine Divinity > Titan Quest though. It's a better copy of the things Diablo got right.

 

[Leonard DeVir]

Diablo being released first it has the advantage of being the real shit. Ive played both nearly at the same time once, they all have strong and weak points.
What comes to mind on the fly:
TQ has a linear feel to the world, but seems to be larger; the charakter system is more interesting.
D2 is faster paced and has some really unique skills, interesting mobs and bosses.

Really, try TQ with the Underworld mod. The game gets a rather different feel.

 

[Rhalle]

I bought TQ for the full price when it was new and played it for about an hour before quitting.

It's obviously well-made, but I found it too hand-holdy and bland to excite much interest.

 

[Lesifoere]

I bought the pack when it wasn't new anymore, but still far too much for what the game isn't. I don't know, it lacks that certain something of Diablo and my interest kept dying. Then again, at the time I was trying to play it on a shit laptop, but I've never felt any great urge to go back to it. Even Torchlight can keep my interest longer (and IMO has better style too).

 

[flushfire]

I'm surprised Mastermind likes it so much.

it's because

I should add that I played very little of it without cheating. I used defiler to boost up experience and loot gain rates.

otherwise he would have been bored enough to quit halfway just like the rest of us

All these are barely worth anyone's time.

this is true on normal, and it is imo the biggest flaw the game has. when you start a character you have to finish the game once in the "too easy to bother with builds that do anything other than spam 1 skill" before being able to play the more interesting higher difficulties. and once you reach that point you are already bored to tears there's really no motivation to go further.

 

[sea]

There's just no impact to anything in the game. Monsters aren't unique (hope you like fighting the same old crows over and over), loot isn't unique (wow, +32 to mana instead of +30!), quests are boring despite the potential of the setting, combat basically comes down to spamming the same attack over and over, even on the hard difficulty it's easy to the point where you only every need to bother focusing on a single skill, equipment progression is all just one-way (i.e. bigger numbers rather than tradeoffs), etc. Even if you cut out all the filler, it'd still be a pretty dull game just because the design never bothers to do anything more than the minimum of what's expected for the genre.

 

[Nakuratz]

From this post:

I was literally told by one of the higher-ups that the game should be designed so that his grandmother would want to play it

the mandate that enemies not use language or build anything that would make them seem like they had more than animal intelligence. It was felt by one of the higher-ups that people might feel wrong killing enemies that displayed any obvious intelligence.

We originally wanted to create enemy siege-works outside Athens but were told that would make the enemies seem too intelligent.

At the same time, we were told that enemies should seem like noble adversaries, not evil or demonic creatures.

I was told that Spirit Mastery was too "Necromancery and evil".

When I first designed the skill masteries, they were all based on Olympian gods, with skills modeled after the powers or attributes associated with different gods in mythology. This was rejected because it was potentially too religious and people might not want to feel like they were worshiping mythological gods to receive their powers.

Poor blighter never stood a chance.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

The first quest I put in the game, when we were prototyping it for THQ was modeled after one of the 12 labors of Heracles. The Erymanthian Board was terrorizing a town and the hunters they sent after it hadn't returned. You had to ascend mount Erymanthos, discover the wreckage of the hunter's camp, and then continue on to the snow-capped summit to battle the monstrous board. Of course, I was told we couldn't have snow on the summit because people might not realize it snowed in Greece and then later the whole quest vanished and was replaced by generic crap like retrieving a dowry ring so some chick can get married while monsters are overrunning the world.

Give whoever was in charge of this project a fucking medal.