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Yusuke Naora (Square-Enix) on Fallout 3

Damned Registrations

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Pretty much. The design premise for FO3 and similiar games seems to be 'Make a big world with lots of cool shit- don't worry about it making sense or holding up to scrutiny'. JRPGs do that very well. You don't tend to start off fighting rats and end with fighting ugly humans in a jrpg. Theres more variety, which the genre obviously needs. If Squienix makes a game like this, you probably won't have to worry about mistaking one dungeon or settlement for another.
 

pkt-zer0

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Ion Flux said:
FO3 + JRPGs = match made in heaven.

There is a huge overlap in target audiences. They are perfect for each other.
Not really, since as far as I'm aware, Japanese people are not too keen on FPS games. Many suffer from motion sickness while playing them or are simply fucked when it comes to controls as "intricate" as standard dual analog aiming.
 

DraQ

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DamnedRegistrations said:
The design premise for FO3 and similiar games seems to be 'Make a big world with lots of cool shit- don't worry about it making sense or holding up to scrutiny'.
I liked the way it was done pre Oblibian - 'Make a big world with lots of cool shit- make sure it makes sense and holds up to scrutiny'.
 

Ion Flux

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pkt-zer0 said:
Ion Flux said:
FO3 + JRPGs = match made in heaven.

There is a huge overlap in target audiences. They are perfect for each other.
Not really, since as far as I'm aware, Japanese people are not too keen on FPS games. Many suffer from motion sickness while playing them or are simply fucked when it comes to controls as "intricate" as standard dual analog aiming.

I didn't say the target audiences were identical, just that there were shared markets. If I had a dime for every time I saw some genius on Gamespot's Fallout 3 area posting "Chrono Trigger is the best RPG evar lol !!!!1111!11!", I would have ... more than 10 cents. As you can see, my opinion is not scientific, I just like to make fun of console gamers.

Also, Japanese people getting motion sick while playing shooters is pretty funny.
 

Mic Turner

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DraQ said:
*groan*

Can't they at least look into some anime that has cool/interesting female characters?

Oh, well, there are noteworthy exceptions, like Mitsuru Kirijo from Persona 3: a high school girl facing down a planet-eating monster and not - backing - down is pretty badass.
Or, as we were talking about Xenogears, Elhaym van Houten and Miang.
 

Heresiarch

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Can't believe all the JRPG hate. Are Mother, Chrono Trigger and Tactics Ogre JRPGs?

There are actually quite a few JRPG that have nice plot and combat and doesn't play like dating sims with combat. The problem with you people is when the word "JRPG" pops up all you get in mind are FF, Persona, metalgearlulz and tentacles.
 

pkt-zer0

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Heresiarch said:
There are actually quite a few JRPG that have nice plot and combat and doesn't play like dating sims with combat. The problem with you people is when the word "JRPG" pops up all you get in mind are FF, Persona, metalgearlulz and tentacles.
Only a few, indeed.

Though in that way it's not much different from WRPGs. Which obviously only consist of Oblivion, Diablo, Fable, and possibly World of Warcraft.

Short version: 90% of everything is crap.
 

Lemunde

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Well I'm not going to complain about getting more open-world RPGs. JRPGs have needed a good kick in the ass(gameplay) for a long time. Interactive stories are ok but I want more game in my games. Who knows? Maybe they'll start releasing more J-dungeon crawlers and J-DnD RPGs. I know that scares a lot of you but if it's a good game it's a good game, no matter where it comes from.
 

Heresiarch

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J-dungeon crawlers and J-DnD RPGs

There are actually lots of them, on the PSP at least. Diablo clone, M&M clone, Wizardry clone, you name it, they have it. Though most WRPG fanatics won't take them seriously because all the anime style characters and language problem.
 

OSK

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
They need to make more JRPGs that have the word "tactics" in the title.
 

Kaanyrvhok

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I have heard many state that Shenmue was a western style JRPG. I loved Shenmue. So....
 

WhiskeyWolf

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Drakron said:
SuicideBunny said:
xenosaga.

Xenosaga is composed of 3 games, not the horror of Disk 2.
Ok, lets assume I didn't play Xenogears - what is with this "Disk 2". Be so nice and maybe I will give it a spin.
 

Mic Turner

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WhiskeyWolf said:
Ok, lets assume I didn't play Xenogears - what is with this "Disk 2". Be so nice and maybe I will give it a spin.

The dev team ended both money and time; thus, entire chapters from disk 2 (of 2) were scrapped, and ended up as a creepy "we are watching the end of the world and there's nothing we can do about it" narration by the characters.
From a certain point onwards it resumes normal gameplay, but a lot got cut.

@mondblut:
Should I start talking about the psionic dog?
 

SuicideBunny

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Drakron said:
SuicideBunny said:
xenosaga.

Xenosaga is composed of 3 games, not the horror of Disk 2.
they all play like a neverending disk 2 to me. or rather the first one did, before i decided that i couldn't be arsed to play more of it.
 

Damned Registrations

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Mic Turner said:
WhiskeyWolf said:
Ok, lets assume I didn't play Xenogears - what is with this "Disk 2". Be so nice and maybe I will give it a spin.

The dev team ended both money and time; thus, entire chapters from disk 2 (of 2) were scrapped, and ended up as a creepy "we are watching the end of the world and there's nothing we can do about it" narration by the characters.
From a certain point onwards it resumes normal gameplay, but a lot got cut.

@mondblut:
Should I start talking about the psionic dog?

What I find amusing is the fact that even so, the game is one of the longest ever made. By disk 2 I was pretty content with watching the (very interesting) story unfold, without having to kill umpteen million foozles with my overpowered characters. They'd have needed to add more than just the dungeons to make that disk full of gameplay; you'd need about another 30 levels worth of new skills and equipment too.
 

Fenril

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I think Jrpgs even being linear and in general not nearly as varied and as interactive as western rpgs have their strong points if they have a good creative team behind them.
And I think even with such differences alot more western rpg gamers could appreciate some Jrpgs in general more, embracing them as simply a different kind of RPG.

In my case I have somewhat fond memories of final fantasy VI and chrono trigger, the first "good" jrpgs I discovered quite a few years back, played them on SNES emu. And I can say I enjoyed them at the time.

The big issue for me is not so much the design philosophy differences, its the aesthetics, the sensibility of the people that create the games...the art direction, the style, the scripts....sometimes an interesting dialog/character or plot twist gets ruined or turned absurd by bizarre or out of place emotional feedback from the characters or apparentely childish bullshit.

Thats what creates the largest pit between the two genres in my opinion.

And I believe these aspects turns are what truly turns alot of western rpg gamers off regarding Jrpgs.

Its not essentially the linearity and the more basic combat approach among the other things... its that fucking bizarre japanese sensibility, or japanese rpg maker sensibility when making their games and creating their characters, scripts, models etc.
Sometimes Jrpgs feel plain silly and childish, other times just absurd and bizarre from a typical westerner point of view, not just a western "gamer", any western person.
 

Melcar

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Fenril said:
I think Jrpgs even being linear and in general not nearly as varied and as interactive as western rpgs have their strong points if they have a good creative team behind them.
And I think even with such differences alot more western rpg gamers could appreciate some Jrpgs in general more, embracing them as simply a different kind of RPG.

In my case I have somewhat fond memories of final fantasy VI and chrono trigger, the first "good" jrpgs I discovered quite a few years back, played them on SNES emu. And I can say I enjoyed them at the time.

The big issue for me is not so much the design philosophy differences, its the aesthetics, the sensibility of the people that create the games...the art direction, the style, the scripts....sometimes an interesting dialog/character or plot twist gets ruined or turned absurd by bizarre or out of place emotional feedback from the characters or apparentely childish bullshit.

Thats what creates the largest pit between the two genres in my opinion.

And I believe these aspects turns are what truly turns alot of western rpg gamers off regarding Jrpgs.

Its not essentially the linearity and the more basic combat approach among the other things... its that fucking bizarre japanese sensibility, or japanese rpg maker sensibility when making their games and creating their characters, scripts, models etc.
Sometimes Jrpgs feel plain silly and childish, other times just absurd and bizarre from a typical westerner point of view, not just a western
"gamer", any western person.

I think so too. Most "RPG gamers" don't give a fuck about non-linearity and what not (except when they try to look all high and mighty when bashing other genres). The problem with JRPGs is the weird Japanese cultural elements present in those games. My God, have you seen Japanese pop culture? It's more than fucking weird (not just weird, but fucking weird).
 

Drakron

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ANY culture that promotes the idea of women to wear maid outfits and animal ears get a free pass from me.

Not to mention Playboy Bunny suits are the definition of sexy ... THEY GOT IT RIGHT, WE FAILED TO GET THAT RIGHT!
 

Forest Dweller

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DamnedRegistrations said:
Mic Turner said:
WhiskeyWolf said:
Ok, lets assume I didn't play Xenogears - what is with this "Disk 2". Be so nice and maybe I will give it a spin.

The dev team ended both money and time; thus, entire chapters from disk 2 (of 2) were scrapped, and ended up as a creepy "we are watching the end of the world and there's nothing we can do about it" narration by the characters.
From a certain point onwards it resumes normal gameplay, but a lot got cut.

@mondblut:
Should I start talking about the psionic dog?

What I find amusing is the fact that even so, the game is one of the longest ever made. By disk 2 I was pretty content with watching the (very interesting) story unfold, without having to kill umpteen million foozles with my overpowered characters. They'd have needed to add more than just the dungeons to make that disk full of gameplay; you'd need about another 30 levels worth of new skills and equipment too.

Correct. While I would have liked to have had more, what they did with disk 2 actually seemed to make sense. This was at a point in the story where we needed to get to the end.

Still, some more elaboration would have been nice.
 

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