Let's discuss (PCgames) fandom

[Cadmus]

I'm interested in and kinda need to reconcile myself with the idea of fandom and what it does.
Mainly because even here, I encounter it and I don't know what to make of it.

You all bitch about biodrones in their glorification of stupid shit, yet even here I find instances of fandom, where people love Morrowind, love Fallout yet easily overlook their incredible shitty aspects while claiming superiority to other fans of shittier franchises, when it's obvious those choose to overlook different aspects of their franchise, thus allowing themselves to love something that's not bad.

So here's my train of thought on this and I don't know what to make of it.

I think all this kinda says that fandom is necessarily a little bit blind and a little bit stupid. I guess it's a sliding scale with one end being the complete retards who attach their love and sense of identity onto any franchise/something no matter how flawed and on the other end, people who allow themselves to love something only when its flaws are absolutely minimal.

The problem also seems to be that people need to love their franchise, they can hardly just enjoy it while they admit to themselves that it's pretty shit. People do this with other things that are not the focus of their main fandom, but not with the main object of their worship. People get angry over it, and I even found myself getting angry over some discussions of some games, like Homam4 and how is it possible that people can't see how good it is.

I kinda thought this was a place of critical thinking like no other game forum anywhere, but it's not that much true for some games.

Is it better to force myself to critically look at EVERYTHING I play/do/listen to/watch? Because to tell you the truth, if I critically look at some games I used to consider amazing, I start fucking hating them, and this includes Wizardry 8, Morrowind and some other stuff. This means I get fucking bored playing them or even thinking about them, because if you take a really close look, they're fucking stupid, dumb and completely meaningless and provide no emotional or intellectual stimuli, or hardly any. Should I do this to myself? If I don't, I have to question my integrity and yours as well, but if I do, everything is shit. PC Games are fucking worthless and I think that for killing time, you should choose something that allows you to intellectually grow as well and games are not there yet.

A good solution seems to me to attach your fandom to a particular mechanic, like turn based tactical combat, but that hardly supports one's fandom. And I want to like shit, I want to be able to actually say I like this game, not just, if I'm being totally honest, say "I liked the combat but the story, graphics and everything else was completely shit". Then I can't become a fan. I'm not a fan of almost anything and I don't know if I should want to be.

I don't know, help me out here...

 

[Konjad]

Yes, people here are immensely dumb, I agree.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO YOU DO NEED LOTS OF HELP LOLLOLLOLOL

IF YOU WANT TO INTELLECTUALLY GSGRROW YOU SHOULD READ A BOOJK OR HEVAN FORBID TALK TO ANOTHER PERSAON

BRO I THINK YOUR POINTS MAKE NO SENSE AND YOU SHOULD JDUST DRINK MORE BEFORE YOU PLAY GAMES IF THAT HELS YOU FORGET

ITS THE CODEX EVERYTHING YOU LIKE IS SHIT AND BRO YES SOME OF THE BEST GAMES DID SOME THINGS REALLY SHITTY BUT LOLLOLLOL WHO GIVES A FUCK

YES BRO DRINKING AND GETTING LAID MORE THEN NONE OF THIS COMPITER GAME STUFF WILL SEEM AS BAD

 

[Cadmus]

Yes, people here are immensely dumb, I agree.

That's not what I was trying to say.
I was asking something along the lines: How do you justify to yourself actually having an emotional investment in what can be objectively criticized as a retarded broken thing, while at the same time bashing other fandoms.
Another thing I want to know maybe is where's the line between retarded biodrones and Fallout fans, given Fallout's many flaws. Is it good or bad? Is fandom better than objectively trying to scrutinize everything? Etc.

Blobert it's not like I'm a basement dweller who needs to base his sense of identity on games, but I'd like to be able to enjoy them again with a critical mind, but if I try really hard to be objective, it seems almost impossible to justify spending 3 hours of my time on 2 combat encounters in Wizardry 8 while I have a backlog of canon to read, music to learn and good movies to watch.

 

[JarlFrank]

I'm an Arcanum fanboy but I don't deny that its combat is crappy and the world map could have been downsized to make the content seem more dense.

 

[Cadmus]

I'm an Arcanum fanboy but I don't deny that its combat is crappy and the world map could have been downsized to make the content seem more dense.

So how does your fandom manifest? Is it really a fandom? How do you separate yourself from what I agree is retarded fandom of bioware for example? I guess it might have to do something with them not allowing for negative feedback about the games, which really irritates me in everything in life. "if you don't have anything nice to say, shut up, troll"
Maybe a good answer would be that a good fandom is being critical while slurping the shit and bad fandom is overlooking everything that's wrong?

I must say that this topic has kept growing in my mind from the moment I realized how some people blindly defend Skyrim which I thought was utter disgrace but then I found myself defending Max Payne 3 because I like Max Payne, and I couldn't understand how people can't see that it's good. But it shouldn't matter whether I like it because the discussion reveals its many flaws. And I get angry with people and with myself because they are attacking something that I like and thought I was right about, but in fact it's a retarded PC game and I should see that.

And as I grow older, I stop having time to fuck around in games for no reason, because I know it's not a background to some epic story full of intricate metaphors and such, evoking real life events and if not that, at least being a part of a hugely important cultural phenomenon. For example reading Silmalirion, which is a bunch of fluff for LotR seems to me 300 times preferable to reading retarded fan fiction in Morrowind ingame books, because while both serve to enrich their vehicles and add background, Morrowind is a retarded, broken, ugly unimportant game. Also relevant is the level of writing in both of these, where Morrowind is like reading toilet stall graffiti when compared to Tolkien.

How can I even remotely like this? How can I be a fan if the instant I start thinking about it, the whole thing falls apart?

 

[laclongquan]

I dont actually justify this to myself. Each game has to justify ITSELF to me so that I will like it. Just because it's in PC doesnt mean it wont stink.

Hell, just because Codex like it doesnt mean it wont stink.

Due to the hardware limitation and requirement, it just mean PC-user has it tougher than console-user. Therefore PC games has more of a chance being tougher than console games. It's no guarantee, of course, as ports can be a game-breaker. But it's the way the breeze flow.

As for the game's limits and weakness, I know them all. I dont think I ever like a game "just because". There's clear reasons why, and clear evidence of weakness.

I know the weakness of Sengoku Rance, doesnt mean I wont enjoy the shit out of it.

And finally, the most basic: You sound depressed and lose your love of life. Been there, done that. I would advise you to change your room/house/location but maybe you dont believe in that. Keep your red blood count, take your vitamin and iron pills. Exercise more. Eat red meats and veggies. Masturbate! It too shall pass.

 

[Cadmus]

I dont actually justify this to myself. Each game has to justify ITSELF to me so that I will like it. Just because it's in PC doesnt mean it wont stink.

Hell, just because Codex like it doesnt mean it wont stink.

Due to the hardware limitation and requirement, it just mean PC-user has it tougher than console-user. Therefore PC games has more of a chance being tougher than console games. It's no guarantee, of course, as ports can be a game-breaker. But it's the way the breeze flow.

Yes, I understand what you mean with the game justifying itself, but how far do you take it?
I think I'm totally lost in my random ramblings..Another question popped up: What is the value of fandom as opposed to trying to enjoy games that you can scrutinize very deeply and still like.
Because it seems to me that there's hardly any material worth being a fan of as opposed to being a random consumer.

Yes, just because Codex like it it doesn't mean the game won't stink, but at some level, everything stinks because games are just nowhere near as deep as other things like books, music, even films. So one might wonder wtf is all this shit for, why bother and why is not everyone who is a fan of some game an idiot or why is one a bigger idiot for being a fan of a worse game.
Btw I didn't mean just PC, I meant video games in general.

I still don't think I've come to a clear thesis, so that's why I hope a discussion will occur here.

 

[Turjan]

You all bitch about biodrones in their glorification of stupid shit, yet even here I find instances of fandom, where people love Morrowind, love Fallout yet easily overlook their incredible shitty aspects while claiming superiority to other fans of shittier franchises, when it's obvious those choose to overlook different aspects of their franchise, thus allowing themselves to love something that's not bad.

I'm a Morrowind fanboy, and I know that its combat sucks and the world is mostly lifeless*. So what?

*except cliffracers, har har...

 

[Konjad]

What do you mean by "games are just nowhere near as deep as other things like books, music, even films"? Are you saying that PST is of much lesser value than Twilight, because it is not a story written down on paper, but instead told in a different manner?

 

[Cadmus]

You all bitch about biodrones in their glorification of stupid shit, yet even here I find instances of fandom, where people love Morrowind, love Fallout yet easily overlook their incredible shitty aspects while claiming superiority to other fans of shittier franchises, when it's obvious those choose to overlook different aspects of their franchise, thus allowing themselves to love something that's not bad.

I'm a Morrowind fanboy, and I know that its combat sucks and the world is mostly lifeless. So what?

So what do you tell yourself in order to justify being a fanboy of something like that? Don't get me wrong. I used to like Morrowind, but as soon I realized how shit most of it is, I've had trouble actually "liking it" instead of saying to myself "oh that was something I've done. I played the game and it was good times but damn it's worthless"
What is the value of being a fanboy or how are you a fanboy, why aren't you a retard like them biodrones? Or are you? I don't think you think you are, right?

What do you mean by "games are just nowhere near as deep as other things like books, music, even films"? Are you saying that PST is of much lesser value than Twilight, because it is not a story written down on paper, but instead told in a different manner?

I wonder that myself. I think Twilight is shit, horrible shit...but fighting with a broken combat mechanic, scrolling through tons of inane text, filled with exposition, using a broken character system, having nothing to challenge your wits and doing all this for tens of hours to get to a few nice moments, I don't know. I've never finished PST, so I can not judge the game properly, but from what I've seen, the dialogues and writing were often nothing good, not to mention great (if you want to talk about comparing between mediums) I would bet you can find enough retarded or useless dialogues in PST to fill up a Twilight film with them. Or maybe not, but I think that the game writing is incredibly bad in the majority of video games, partially also because of the horrible dissonance between gameplay and writing and story.

So I don't know. I guess I'd rather passively watch a stupid-in-a-fun-way Twilight than torture myself with fucking boring shit for tens of hours for some moments that are far better than Twilight.
Man this is a scary thought.

 

[No Great Name]

Is it better to force myself to critically look at EVERYTHING I play/do/listen to/watch? Because to tell you the truth, if I critically look at some games I used to consider amazing, I start fucking hating them, and this includes Wizardry 8, Morrowind and some other stuff. This means I get fucking bored playing them or even thinking about them, because if you take a really close look, they're fucking stupid, dumb and completely meaningless and provide no emotional or intellectual stimuli, or hardly any. Should I do this to myself? If I don't, I have to question my integrity and yours as well, but if I do, everything is shit. PC Games are fucking worthless and I think that for killing time, you should choose something that allows you to intellectually grow as well and games are not there yet.

Here's your problem. You shouldn't be looking for that one "history-changing" or "flawlessly perfect" game. You should be looking for games that are simply better than others if you bother to play games at all.

 

[warpig]

Yes, just because Codex like it it doesn't mean the game won't stink, but at some level, everything stinks because games are just nowhere near as deep as other things like books, music, even films. So one might wonder wtf is all this shit for, why bother and why is not everyone who is a fan of some game an idiot or why is one a bigger idiot for being a fan of a worse game.

What do you mean by "deep"? How do you compare games to movies, books or music (and what about the music in games?). Can you play a book? This makes no sense.

PC Games are fucking worthless and I think that for killing time, you should choose something that allows you to intellectually grow as well and games are not there yet.

Intellectually grow? We're talking about entertainment here, something you do for fun. Also I think you overrate the "profoundness" of most movies and books.

 

[Cadmus]

Is it better to force myself to critically look at EVERYTHING I play/do/listen to/watch? Because to tell you the truth, if I critically look at some games I used to consider amazing, I start fucking hating them, and this includes Wizardry 8, Morrowind and some other stuff. This means I get fucking bored playing them or even thinking about them, because if you take a really close look, they're fucking stupid, dumb and completely meaningless and provide no emotional or intellectual stimuli, or hardly any. Should I do this to myself? If I don't, I have to question my integrity and yours as well, but if I do, everything is shit. PC Games are fucking worthless and I think that for killing time, you should choose something that allows you to intellectually grow as well and games are not there yet.

Here's your problem. You shouldn't be looking for that one "history-changing" or "flawlessly perfect" game. You should be looking for games that are simply better than others if you bother to play games at all.

I know. I guess I do this with many things but it seems to me that games have a much lower standard in contrast to for example music. They require the biggest time investment of all passive entertainment yet the pay-off is possible the lowest. It's in the journey but especially in RPGs, that part is the most broken of them all.

What do you mean by "deep"? How do you compare games to movies, books or music (and what about the music in games?). Can you play a book? This makes no sense.


Intellectually grow? We're talking about entertainment here, something you do for fun. Also I think you overrate the "profoundness" of most movies and books.

No, you can't play a book. The comparison is here because video games are an entertainment medium but the intellectual or emotional stimulus from a game is so low when compared to other entertainment objects that it would seem reasonable to label them a waste of time. I don't know whether or not they are, but the more I think about it, especially after trying to play some codex acclaimed games, which I was expecting to be the best of the best,and finding they are filled with tens of hours of useless shit, I'm starting to wonder if my limited time would be better spent elsewhere. But I think this was not a point in my original post. It was more along the lines of fandom tainting the critical perspective and the value of it.

To the second point, yes it's entertainment but if you have a limited amount of time to spend on it, it should also give you something or at least be useful to you.
If you read the stupid fucking Bible, you may not be entertained (or you may) but you will have gained a better perspective and understanding of a huge part of society and its customs, ideas and art. If you finish PST what will you have gained? A fun experience (perhaps, perhaps not really) And think of the millions of other games that are not even 1/4 as good as far as critical consensus goes. If you watch The Pianist, you will feel sadness, awe and many other things. And you will have learned something and be entertained at the same time. I'm not overrating them.

 

[Turjan]

So what do you tell yourself in order to justify being a fanboy of something like that? Don't get me wrong. I used to like Morrowind, but as soon I realized how shit most of it is, I've had trouble actually "liking it" instead of saying to myself "oh that was something I've done. I played the game and it was good times but damn it's worthless"

You know yourself that simple statement of "shit" or "worthless" regarding the game as a whole are, the way you write them, meaningless. They are simple value statements that don't tell me anything about the game. My "fanboyism" relates to something of that I think that it is pretty unique to RPGs, which is that the game provides a complex world that gives several, mutually exclusive answers to the same questions, without giving you any means to decide which is wrong and which is right, but still brings you to choose a position. And that feels more real than any "deeply immersive story" I see in many other games. Plus a few other reasons, but it's not about Morrowind here. Suffice to say, I have my reasons.

What is the value of being a fanboy or how are you a fanboy, why aren't you a retard like them biodrones? Or are you? I don't think you think you are, right?

For example, I don't say that you are a retard for not liking Morrowind. I'm fine with you not liking it, and I accept your reasons for not liking it, as long as they are actual reasons (and I have stated three real reasons that I find fully acceptable in my first post). I will not go out on a djihad to convert you to the righteous faith. My "fanboyism" is a personal thing.

 

[laclongquan]

Games is a different medium than books or movies as two ends of spectrum, so compare the lot of them is uncorrect.

Games can provide many ways to experience, either full visual/sound like movies (but Codex hate those fake movies) or nearly empty of visual cues like a book (the earliest games: some players like Minecraft/Dwarf Fortress, I hate them). And it has freedom to range the spectrum (graphics mods to those DF games, as an example).

 

[No Great Name]

Here's your problem. You shouldn't be looking for that one "history-changing" or "flawlessly perfect" game. You should be looking for games that are simply better than others if you bother to play games at all.

I know. I guess I do this with many things but it seems to me that games have a much lower standard in contrast to for example music. They require the biggest time investment of all passive entertainment yet the pay-off is possible the lowest. It's in the journey but especially in RPGs, that part is the most broken of them all.

It's up to you to decide if you want to play games or use your time for other things. No one is forcing you to play games.

EDIT: By the way, should I be worried after reading "anus_pounder is now stalking you" in my alerts?

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Give this man access to GD DarkUnderlord, so that he may receive advice in combating his depression and malaise.

EDIT: By the way, should I be worried after reading "anus_pounder is now stalking you" in my alerts?

Nah bro, anus_pounder is a refined gentleman of exquisite taste. I know this because he brofists my posts more than anyone else.

 

[Turjan]

By the way, should I be worried after reading "anus_pounder is now stalking you" in my alerts?

No worries, he's stalking about 600 peeps, which means you have to provide your butt not more than once a year or so, which shouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[warpig]

No, you can't play a book. The comparison is here because video games are an entertainment medium but the intellectual or emotional stimulus from a game is so low when compared to other entertainment objects that it would seem reasonable to label them a waste of time.

How is it low? Figuring out how to beat a strategy game, solve puzzles in an adventure game, winning, failing, the gameplay itself is stimulating. Besides gameplay there's also the aspect of aesthetics, the so called "athmosphere", experiencing the "reality" presented in a game. Of course this is a matter of personal preference, maybe you just don't like playing games.

To the second point, yes it's entertainment but if you have a limited amount of time to spend on it, it should also give you something or at least be useful to you.
If you read the stupid fucking Bible, you may not be entertained (or you may) but you will have gained a better perspective and understanding of a huge part of society and its customs, ideas and art. If you finish PST what will you have gained? A fun experience (perhaps, perhaps not really) And think of the millions of other games that are not even 1/4 as good as far as critical consensus goes.

This looks more like a matter of time managemet to me. How much of it you spend on self development and how much on fun. Playing computer games all the time is a waste of time. So is reading (to a lesser degree) if you overdo it and constantly sit on your fat ass with a book. You are right about reading books being beneficial for your self development though, but that depends on what you read.

If you watch The Pianist, you will feel sadness, awe and many other things. And you will have learned something and be entertained at the same time. I'm not overrating them.

Well, I was sad when Aeris died :D Just kidding. I wouldn't say that watching The Pianist was some kind of valuable experience, time spent better than playing a game. Just a movie. Oh and btw learning history from hollyweird flicks is not a good idea imo.

 

[Outlander]

Actually, the fanboy-ism here on the Codex is pretty much (for the most part). There are other sites like PC-oriented DSOGaming for example, which has good and interesting content (again, for the most part) but lately the comments section was overrun by 12 year old PC fanboys and the discussions plunged to the 'consoles sux, pc pwns ololol' level.

 

[J_C]

Fanboys? I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[sea]

The Codex is largely counter-cultural, and in so being tends to be highly critical solely for the sake of being contrarian. Its identity exists largely as opposition to other games and communities, often (if not usually) excessively so, and always through very specific selection of criteria and pretenses.

There is value in that counter-cultural attitude, just like listening to punk music might make you aware of certain social and political issues, but it is also often not very productive and that energy could be more ideally channeled into more positive ideas and exercises. I know that for me the appeal of that edginess has definitely begun to wane over the last year or two.

 

[Cadmus]

And finally, the most basic: You sound depressed and lose your love of life. Been there, done that. I would advise you to change your room/house/location but maybe you dont believe in that. Keep your red blood count, take your vitamin and iron pills. Exercise more. Eat red meats and veggies. Masturbate! It too shall pass.

I'm not depressed, it's just what trying to educate myself with the codexian acclaimed games has done to me. I thought to myself: this is it, now I'll start enjoying gaming again when I've tried all these amazing and deep games, but it turns out they are not all they've been made out to be and if this is the best of the best, I don't know if I should bother. All these amazing dialogues I've been hearing about don't seem so amazing when I get to see them, they don't compare to a good book. The videogame form of story telling does not compare to a good book, nor do the stories themselves. So I have found this is not for me, I can't play games for the story, for real. It seems to me that many people here (who I believe to be well read, at least in the non-monocled literature) have some strangely different expectations when it comes to writing in games. If I'm to take the game seriously, (as I believe the time spent on them warrants it) I come to see how stupid most of it is. From mudcrabs to LaCroix to voice acting, this does not hold a candle to similar representations in different mediums. So I look for the exceptions, like Hitman's voice acting, The Witcher 2's graphics, etc, but there aren't many of them. Which I guess makes me jaded and as there's nowhere deeper to go than the Codex, I don't know what to do.

So what do you tell yourself in order to justify being a fanboy of something like that? Don't get me wrong. I used to like Morrowind, but as soon I realized how shit most of it is, I've had trouble actually "liking it" instead of saying to myself "oh that was something I've done. I played the game and it was good times but damn it's worthless"

You know yourself that simple statement of "shit" or "worthless" regarding the game as a whole are, the way you write them, meaningless. They are simple value statements that don't tell me anything about the game. My "fanboyism" relates to something of that I think that it is pretty unique to RPGs, which is that the game provides a complex world that gives several, mutually exclusive answers to the same questions, without giving you any means to decide which is wrong and which is right, but still brings you to choose a position. And that feels more real than any "deeply immersive story" I see in many other games. Plus a few other reasons, but it's not about Morrowind here. Suffice to say, I have my reasons.

What is the value of being a fanboy or how are you a fanboy, why aren't you a retard like them biodrones? Or are you? I don't think you think you are, right?

For example, I don't say that you are a retard for not liking Morrowind. I'm fine with you not liking it, and I accept your reasons for not liking it, as long as they are actual reasons (and I have stated three real reasons that I find fully acceptable in my first post). I will not go out on a djihad to convert you to the righteous faith. My "fanboyism" is a personal thing.

I used shit as an umbrella term to describe what I expect we would agree on, as in the game mechanics, graphics, most of the writing, so that I wouldn't have to explain everything in detail.

I like what you are saying about Morrowind. You see, I have not come here to fight a fight, but to understand what I think about this because there has been a dissonance growing in me, in that I think I like some games but if I try to look at them from various points of view, I can't justify it to myself. I lack the words and I'm looking to just find something here that would give me a better understanding of this whole thing, of being a fan vs. being critical.

No, you can't play a book. The comparison is here because video games are an entertainment medium but the intellectual or emotional stimulus from a game is so low when compared to other entertainment objects that it would seem reasonable to label them a waste of time.

How is it low? Figuring out how to beat a strategy game, solve puzzles in an adventure game, winning, failing, the gameplay itself is stimulating. Besides gameplay there's also the aspect of aesthetics, the so called "athmosphere", experiencing the "reality" presented in a game. Of course this is a matter of personal preference, maybe you just don't like playing games.

To the second point, yes it's entertainment but if you have a limited amount of time to spend on it, it should also give you something or at least be useful to you.
If you read the stupid fucking Bible, you may not be entertained (or you may) but you will have gained a better perspective and understanding of a huge part of society and its customs, ideas and art. If you finish PST what will you have gained? A fun experience (perhaps, perhaps not really) And think of the millions of other games that are not even 1/4 as good as far as critical consensus goes.

This looks more like a matter of time managemet to me. How much of it you spend on self development and how much on fun. Playing computer games all the time is a waste of time. So is reading (to a lesser degree) if you overdo it and constantly sit on your fat ass with a book. You are right about reading books being beneficial for your self development though, but that depends on what you read.

If you watch The Pianist, you will feel sadness, awe and many other things. And you will have learned something and be entertained at the same time. I'm not overrating them.

Well, I was sad when Aeris died :D Just kidding. I wouldn't say that watching The Pianist was some kind of valuable experience, time spent better than playing a game. Just a movie. Oh and btw learning history from hollyweird flicks is not a good idea imo.

Maybe I just don't like playing games, yeah. But I feel I do. Maybe it's the other things, like power trip, need to scratch a fantasy itch, but it seems to be less and less about actually playing the games.
Figuring how to beat a strategy game mission or a puzzle in a game is hardly very stimulating, especially given our here metaknowledge. And considering how time consuming it can be, there needs to be a good pay-off, especially as what you have just done is useless to you, especially compared to almost anything real-life.

Yea, I can see where it could be a time management issue but it's not for me. I have about 5-6 hours per day to spend on my shit which I think is pretty normal but I seem to lately regret having spent time on any game at all, because they are so bloated with bullshit like fetch quests, unnecessary running around, etc. But nevermind that shit, I'm having some identity crisis here for some reason..It's just been bugging me.

The Codex is largely counter-cultural, and in so being tends to be highly critical solely for the sake of being contrarian. Its identity exists largely as opposition to other games and communities, often (if not usually) excessively so, and always through very specific selection of criteria and pretenses.

There is value in that counter-cultural attitude, just like listening to punk music might make you aware of certain social and political issues, but it is also often not very productive and that energy could be more ideally channeled into more positive ideas and exercises. I know that for me the appeal of that edginess has definitely begun to wane over the last year or two for me.

Honestly, I think Codex is as close to RPG academia as you can get, but it has its advantages and disadvantages. It's full of bullshit but its also meticulous. Its too often too contrarian but there's hardly too much of that in the gaming media. I've been often times confused as to why Draq keeps sorta winning arguments over TES games but he simply presents the best arguments while the others fail to do so, even if I think they are actually right. This is so cool and at the same time so infuriating.

 

[Lemming42]

Is it better to force myself to critically look at EVERYTHING I play/do/listen to/watch? Because to tell you the truth, if I critically look at some games I used to consider amazing, I start fucking hating them, and this includes Wizardry 8, Morrowind and some other stuff. This means I get fucking bored playing them or even thinking about them, because if you take a really close look, they're fucking stupid, dumb and completely meaningless and provide no emotional or intellectual stimuli, or hardly any. Should I do this to myself?

Criticizing everything is good, because after you've torn apart all the stuff you love (or thought you loved), everything that you can still enjoy after that is pure gold.

Unfortunately, video games tend to have a much lower "hit rate" than other media in general, so taking this approach to videogames results in having about 3 games that you actually like and hating the rest.

 

[Tigranes]

To enjoy and see value in anything you must learn to selectively ignore some of its frustrations and pointlessness. That applies to your job as well as your sexual partner as well as your hobby. I went to see Dream Theater live last night, and I selectively ignore the fact that mic wasn't great and James Labrie can't really sing very well, because the rest of the band more than makes up for it. Many games I really really like (Torment, AP, Arcanum...) tend to be heavily flawed, but I learn to put up with them, because, I don't know, Arcanum's slightly fat on the belly but has a great face, or something. I got used to NWN2's camera pretty quickly because I enjoyed MOTB so much, and I don't feel 'bad' or 'forced' or 'ignorant' about essentially forgetting that it has a shit camera.

There's no point trying to escape this selectivity in order to say, 'idiots like biodrones ignore the clearly shitty parts of those games, but i objectively go for the most games and thus do not have such selective vision problems'. You'd be like the guy who marries a girl and says 'you're the best I could get, but that doesn't mean I am not reminded every day that your arse is subpar despite your great performance elsewhere'.

Really the only question is what selective standards you want to have. As much as you can you want to be in charge of your own standards, so that even if you find yourself 'wasting time' getting killed by bears in Arcnaum, you chose to be in that position. In that sense I don't think I really care about biodrones who have tried all the RPGs out there and really decide what they want is gay sex, or I don't know, prefer Justin Bieber to King Crimson. Whatever. What is more deserving of criticism is people who refuse to try things beyond their taste palette because they think they already know what they like or don't like, but they got there purely by accident.

In that sense I enjoy the Codex. Of course, about half or more of it is usually pointless repetition that I don't bother reading (i.e. the Roguey Eternity megathread, the hiver WL2 megathread), to the extent that I never even bothered to register for the first 3 or 4 years. But it's the place where I can learn about games that I wouldn't have heard of otherwise. I began RPGs with FF7/8 because I came across them by accident when I was a kid. I tried BG2 but I didn't understand the ruleset and it all seemed rather confusing. I could have just run with my existing taste palette there. Instead I gave BG2 and Torment a go, and then lurking on the Codex followed the trail to Fallouts, Ultima VII, etc. That doesn't even mean that I adopt the Codex taste palette (if there is even a unified one). I loved U7 but I wouldn't play it again, and its combat is worse than just about any other game I have ever played, it's about as good as Progress Quest. I couldn't really get that enamoured with Wiz8 or M&M6. But because the Codex won't shut up about them that gives me incentive to try and go back to them later and give another go.

 

[laclongquan]

Eh, do you feel like there's nothing you can do but endure? Like 'Endure, in enduring, grow strong." and shit like that?

Because let me tell you, that is one stage of being depressed.