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Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus - set in Nazi occupied America

Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
146
Mindless.
Fun.
Pick one.
We are talking about shooters not about grand strategy games.
Say that to Shadow Warrior (2013). Even nuDoom requires a little strategy in later levels.
And they're not even "Oldskool".
Shadow Warrior games are cool, the last good shooters i have played. Still not much of thought process needed,more of a muscle memory and fps experience.
Not 2, which is "hack whichever's closest to you". The "reboot" clearly requires strategy.
Then again, I'm not talking about anything actually old school. Try saying Duke Nukem 3D requires no strategy...
 

Zenith

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
296
constant tactics, strategy and decision-making, and throwing new shit at you to skillfully overcome. Does Serious Sam actually demand that? Not really from what I recall.
Sure it does, name me another FPS since the 90s where you had to constantly switch weapons and prioritize targets. Talking about BFE mostly (and Serious difficulty, naturally), and I didn't even like the game on the whole that much, but credit where it's due. People calling it mindless probably stopped 10 minutes in.

Also gonna defend Painkiller for a bit, as it's probably the only bunnyhopping-based singleplayer FPS, i.e. you're supposed to never get hit essentially (darksouls of fps! I'll go kill myself now). It's still too easy, but pretty neat nonetheless. Some adaptive game design as well, with some secrets requiring you to master engine-specific physics quirks. Again, doesn't by itself make it a great game, but there's stuff nowhere to be seen elsewhere in the FPS wasteland.

Neither are "old school", obviously. And Shadow Warrior 2013 is decline, no arguing there.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,559
Fair enough. I've not played the likes of SS enough to have any valid input on the true depths of their gameplay because the simplicity from the outset always turns me off. Need dat highly variable level design of the old school, which plays heavily into the the diversity of gunplay (via enemy placement, constant changing of environments to do combat in etc) among plenty other things it brings.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
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Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Mindless.
Fun.

Pick one. I'm not sure I've ever played a game I could describe as both mindless and fun. Even a simple game better be demanding constant tactics, strategy and decision-making, and throwing new shit at you to skillfully overcome. Does Serious Sam actually demand that? Not really from what I recall. Just keep strafing and blasting the hordes in a empty non-interactive arena. Sure you got to manage pickups and control the horde, but t doesn't go much further than that.
You need to drink more and relax. We are talking about shooters not about grand strategy games.

Ash is always super serious.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
146
Both SW13 and Hard Reset require target prioritization and changing weapons/tactics. They're not oldschool of course.
 

passerby

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
2,788
Serious Sam games look like classic FPS games, but their basic flat levels and bullet hell encounters with elaborate spawn sequnces, make them play more like shmups, or top down shooters, except from first person perspective.
 

Zenith

Arbiter
Joined
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Messages
296
Both SW13 and Hard Reset require target prioritization and changing weapons/tactics. They're not oldschool of course.
I'll admit I don't remember much, but I seem to recall most firearms in SW being near-useless, and when you do use them, being interchangeable. According to Steam I apparently beat it on Hard, too, but I remember it being easier than Hard Reset (played them back-to-back).
On HR, couldn't get into it due to lack of feedback from enemies. Did I hit, did I miss? Who the hell knows, they're all robots and don't flinch. Maybe it was the effects or whatever, but shooting never felt "deliberate" in that game, don't know how else to put it. Also, weren't there like two enemy types in total? Just target the big charging guy, not much prioritization there. Again, never replayed it, so memory might be fuzzy.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
146
basic flat levels
No. Yes for BFE though.

I'll admit I don't remember much, but I seem to recall most firearms in SW being near-useless, and when you do use them, being interchangeable. According to Steam I apparently beat it on Hard, too, but I remember it being easier than Hard Reset (played them back-to-back).
On HR, couldn't get into it due to lack of feedback from enemies. Did I hit, did I miss? Who the hell knows, they're all robots and don't flinch. Maybe it was the effects or whatever, but shooting never felt "deliberate" in that game, don't know how else to put it. Also, weren't there like two enemy types in total? Just target the big charging guy, not much prioritization there. Again, never replayed it, so memory might be fuzzy.
SW prioritised the sword, it required target prioritization and changing tactics more, while HR requires changing weapons and being on the move; and yes there are more than 2 enemy types, yet they feel samey, lack of feedback helps that too.
 
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fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,180
Location
Bulgaria
Mindless.
Fun.
Pick one.
We are talking about shooters not about grand strategy games.
Say that to Shadow Warrior (2013). Even nuDoom requires a little strategy in later levels.
And they're not even "Oldskool".
Shadow Warrior games are cool, the last good shooters i have played. Still not much of thought process needed,more of a muscle memory and fps experience.
Not 2, which is "hack whichever's closest to you". The "reboot" clearly requires strategy.
Then again, I'm not talking about anything actually old school. Try saying Duke Nukem 3D requires no strategy...
Why do you people act as if the old school shooters need some kind of strategy,all that shit is subconscious. I have played most the old/doom style games on the hardest difficulty that doesn't have resurrecting/ respawning enemies. If you have fps experience the games are not that hard. Modern fps are harder because there is no dodging and the enemy are hitscanning.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,559
fantadomat nobody is saying FPS requires high degree of prestigious leet skills and strategy, just for me (and my lack of wisdom, since I haven't played them enough to have a properly informed opinion, but I know a fair bit regardless), arena shooters are too straightforward and repetitive.

passerby Even top-down shooters can also be more elaborate and classic FPS-like than the typical Smash TV clone. Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light, for instance. Platforming, puzzles, exploration, engaging and always progressing level design, it's perhaps the only decent game that's not highly flawed in some regard Square Enix ever published.
shmups though, I don't think I ever played one that wasn't extremely straightforward and purely about combat and combat alone. I can't really knock it for that I suppose...well, I do find them too simple and repetitive, but maybe I just don't appreciate that form of combat enough.
 
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Durandal

Arcane
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
2,117
Location
New Eden
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I've played this up to New Orleans on I Am Death Incarnate, and it's pretty :?. I wouldn't play it on this difficulty, I only do this because I am a masochist and can do a better job at bitching about videogames when it's constantly fucking me over at a difficulty which is supposed to be the most challenging and requires you to know the game the best
Difficulty doesn't seem to change anything other than enemy accuracy and damage output as usual, enemies will still behave like dumbfucks when they don't have you in their sights with the finger on the trigger
You die ridiculously fast, 100 HP will go to 0 within a second
There are no Übersoldaten bulletsponges anymore, but the new cooler enemy types die too fast to be of any real threat as you can whip out two ARs with armor piercing and kill them under three seconds with dozens of spare ammo to boot, which is even more laughable when they try to pass those enemies off as the final fight in a level. Like there's some seriously cool enemy types here which can dash around the place and shoot projectiles, or others which can melt the cover you're hiding behind, but they are killed too easily and never get to be used properly
You get a ground pound which can be used to crash through panels in the floor to other areas, but it's fucking useless and the developers seem to forget completely about it later on
Performance is crappy here, while TNO ran at a steady framerate on medium-high settings, I had to go all low for this one to even get something playable, with some sections dropping to single digit FPS for no discernible reason
I feel like there's even less weapons in TNC than in TNO. Most of the time you use dual SMGs or assault rifle with a scope when the game throws so much hitscan in an open area at you that you are forced to play popamole if you don't want to die. Only when the situation is proper enough for you to use dual shotguns is the game any fun
I dig commanders, but there needs to be a limit on continuously respawning enemies if they're all going to be of the hitscan kind, just send in the robots which throw projectiles
I think the shit about the narrative is slightly overblown given how much of it is based on contextless cutscene snippets, while it is still quite similar in tone to previous games, though somewhat more egregious with the tonal inconsistency and making the nationality of diverse characters more pronounced by having them say something in their native language every five seconds while speaking English, like how the Finnish girl wants to build a sauna, which seems pretty :racist: to me. There's some deus ex machina shit in here though
Later on you get an upgrade which lets you ram through walls and enemies like the fucking Kool-Aid man, which combined with dual shotguns is about as fun as the game is gonna get with you sprinting around the goddamn place like a madman, would be better if ramming enemies wasn't so bloody clunky and if you could shoot while sprinting and if you got this upgrade from the fucking start
level design on the whole feels worse, less F.E.A.R. like arenas and more open battlefields or rubble that's confusing to navigate
some of the touted mini-bosses are ridiculously cheesable
Had I not been playing on the highest difficulty and dying frequently, I'd feel the game was more cutscene and non-interactive in-game cinematic than game

wouldn't recommend this though, will elaborate later



Serious Sam games look like classic FPS games, but their basic flat levels and bullet hell encounters with elaborate spawn sequnces, make them play more like shmups, or top down shooters, except from first person perspective.
I've always maintained that the Serious Sam games are just first-person tower defense games, except the tower is mobile. I don't think it deserves to be called an arena shooter in a derogatory light, some thought does go into enemy composition and environmental gimmicks. The chumps who wanted 'real' level design got it in the starting levels of BFE which fucking sucked until you got to the oasis and the game went back to being classic Sam
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,180
Location
Bulgaria
fantadomat nobody is saying FPS requires high degree of prestigious leet skills and strategy, just for me (and my lack of wisdom, since I haven't played them enough to have a properly informed opinion, but I know a fair bit regardless), arena shooters are too straightforward and repetitive.

passerby Even top-down shooters can also be more elaborate and classic FPS-like than the typical Smash TV clone. Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light, for instance. Platforming, puzzles, exploration, engaging and always progressing level design, it's perhaps the only decent game that's not highly flawed in some regard Square Enix ever published.
shmups though, I don't think I ever played one that wasn't extremely straightforward and purely about combat and combat alone. I can't really knock it for that I suppose...well, I do find them too simple and repetitive, but maybe I just don't appreciate that form of combat enough.
Oh yeah,i totally agree with you mate. Modern shooters are pretty shit.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,180
Location
Bulgaria
BTW, do we have cosplayers here?
wYn7JHh.jpg

14facda47d5a811506d64c112f7a625a--fat-man-wonder-woman-cosplay.jpg

funny-iron-man-cosplay-is-fat.jpg
Hope not!
 
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Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,559
I've always maintained that the Serious Sam games are just first-person tower defense games, except the tower is mobile.

...and there's none of the defense. Like building defenses and managing units and whatnot between rounds. It's pure offence. So not sure that's a good comparison.

I don't think it deserves to be called an arena shooter in a derogatory light, some thought does go into enemy composition and environmental gimmicks. The chumps who wanted 'real' level design got it in the starting levels of BFE which fucking sucked until you got to the oasis and the game went back to being classic Sam

Meh. The chumps are the devs that cannot into "real" level design, in that case.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
146
Well I was thinking maybe
people could dress as this shit's cast and re-enact scenes from it, just with reversed outcomes; like beating BlowJob Blaz without him being able to fight back
 

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