About the grimoire project.

[sheek]

I could never really be bothered to follow this drama, so let me ask now:

What was so interesting about Grimoire in the first place? I've seen screenshots before and they always look crap.

Has this Cleve ever produced anything, was he some genius programmer once? Otherwise how come his project has gained so much fame?

 

[Jim Kata]

I could never really be bothered to follow this drama, so let me ask now:

What was so interesting about Grimoire in the first place? I've seen screenshots before and they always look crap.

Has this Cleve ever produced anything, was he some genius programmer once? Otherwise how come his project has gained so much fame?

He worked on wiz 7 or 8 or both of them.

 

[sheek]

That explains why it looks so crap.

 

[FrancoTAU]

I think he was actually gone by Wiz 8, but he did some stuff on Wiz 7. Otherwise he did a bunch of little programs in the 80s

 

[mondblut]

What was so interesting about Grimoire in the first place? I've seen screenshots before and they always look crap.

Well, back when it was first announced, there was a sense in the air that just-released Daggerfall has been the last RPG ever, and diablow clones are all we are going to get from now on (nope, no Fallout yet). Thus, a second coming of Wizardry 7 felt like a second coming allright.

The whole design didn't age well, but still feels good for the nostalgic among us. They don't make games like that any longer (yes, that includes Wizardry 8). Although gameplay-wise it is much more like Wizardry 6 than 7, very linear. Still, were it to be finished back in 1997, it would be remembered as instant hardcore classic. In fact, the '97 DOS edition, while not very stable and limited to shareware section, was probably the best of the three beta versions. Game mechanics were fully balanced and polished, unlike the last beta. I spent hours killing dwarves in the mines to switch classes. You could also mess with spells which were scripted as plain text... Too bad I lost the copy years ago.

The 2005 version was enjoyable enough, fully playable and finishable with only a few cheatcodes, but felt very unpolished. NPC scripts were a biggest problem indeed. And no, there are no star children and gorilla races. Although I wouldn't mind a bit if there were

Has this Cleve ever produced anything, was he some genius programmer once? Otherwise how come his project has gained so much fame?

He was in original Wizardry 8 team back around 94/95, before Sir-Tech started it over. Also wrote various small games in 80s. As for fame, he's quite infamous on Usenet, almost like Derek Smart. Nobody (well, almost) played Battlecruiser 3000AD, but everybody heard of the game and it's developer, haha.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

It looks like mondblut is the only here who has actually played the beta, so thanks for giving us the inside scoop.

I was surprised to hear that it was best in 97. Do you know why Cleve changed it for the worse?

 

[FrancoTAU]

I'm going to guess because Windows officially took over the world around than? DOS support kind of died.

Yeah, the reason Grimoire gets some much talk is because Cleve is a personality. And probably moreso because there were hardly any RPGs in 96-97 when he announced it initially.

 

[mondblut]

It looks like mondblut is the only here who has actually played the beta, so thanks for giving us the inside scoop.

Yes, I tested all versions, although the second only briefly. And the game is still not out. Ain't me a loser? %)

I was surprised to hear that it was best in 97. Do you know why Cleve changed it for the worse?

As FrancoTAU said. It was fully rewritten for windows, and some original features were cut (like food necessity; or autowalk across several maps at once; or planned character transfer from other popular series like Wizardry and Bard's Tale, as they used to do in 80s; or alterable interface where you could select a default "Wizardry 7 style" layout, or "Eye of Beholder style" with portraits to the right and FPV in the corner...). Other rewritten stuff just wasn't polished enough by the final beta, like much of game mechanics (switching classes was rendered useless, for example, since you lost all stats like in Wiz7 AND continued to need a lot of xp like in Wiz8), whereas it all worked fine in DOS version. NPCs were fully scripted and talkable in first beta, while in last one they hardly recognized their own names. Hopefully by the fourth version, if it will ever come out, they'll get a proper treatment again.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Cleve should just release the first beta packaged in with DosBox

 

[Higher Game]

He's probably dead. Wouldn't it be easy to disappear in an underground bunker and the rest of society to never know about it? I'll go ask St. Proverbius about that sometime.

 

[SkeleTony]

Cleve is an imbecile. I used to pwn him in all sorts of political/religious debates until(a few years ago) he tried to go alter my posts to make it sound like I said a bunch of stupid shit and he was knocking down (a straw man of) "my" positions left and right, then he banned me yet continued arguing with me(or himself posing as me).

Guy is pretty notorious for his Neo-Nazism type views. He calls Jews "thieves" and "mud people". Same with Hispanics and blacks. He was a buddy/worshipper of D.W. Bradley so anything Sir Tech did post D.W. he tries to bag on. Funniest things he ever said were his various predictions. He said back in 1999 or so that America would be enveloped in a full scale civil war within two years(like 8-9 years ago). he also said that Wizardy 8 would basically be taken out to the woodshed by "Wizards and Warriors"(a D.W. Bradley game that was met with VERY bad reviews due to a horrible interface and silly gameplay in general).

And to listen to him talk "science" was just Hilarious! According to Cleve, liberals could be detected by virtue of their having "poorly oxygenated blood". He went from hard line conservative Republican to hardcore conservative libertarian, then realized that libertarians were mostly socially liberal and abandoned that party and now he is building bomb shelters and awaiting WWIII. For years he asserted that Grimoire would be a revolution in gaming and that when he released it he and his buddy "Shams"(who somehow works with him) would be atop a mountain of respect and praise. He promised it's release every year from 1997 until last year when he finally gave up with the excuse that it made no economic sense for him to release the game now.

As for the game itself, at first it looked kind of okay(I love the hell out of Wizardy & Might & Magic type games) but his idea of creativity was to have the familiar fantasy stock races we all know and love(elves, dwarves, etc.) and one or two non-standard ones but to give those stock races stupid names(i.e. dawrves are now "barrowers"), thus contradicting the very reason for having stock races in the first place!
I mean fuck either be original(like geneforge or something) or just call dwarves "dwarves" but don't try to pass off simple(and stupid) renaming as creativity.

Guy is a cowardly putz and dumb as a box of hammers.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Cleve is an imbecile. I used to pwn him in all sorts of political/religious debates until(a few years ago) he tried to go alter my posts to make it sound like I said a bunch of stupid shit and he was knocking down (a straw man of) "my" positions left and right, then he banned me yet continued arguing with me(or himself posing as me).

It's been my experience that people who write "pwn" don't do any of it when it comes to debates, but do tend to say a lot of stupid shit.

 

[LCJr.]

Cleve Blackmore wrote:


Will you liberals please stop bashing Atkins corpse. There’s nothing that triggers the hive swarming reflex in the idiot left like the appearance of a true genius. Atkins passed more brain cells during his last bowel movement than any of you communists will ever possess in your tiny shrunken skulls.

I’m not going to even waste my time explaining how the Doc, the ultimate bad-ass of weight loss, figured out the insulin or sleep connection and started what amounts to a revolution in the medical sciences perhaps on the trail of cancer itself. It’s too exhausting.

Read LIGHTS OUT : SLEEP, SUGAR AND SURVIVAL. Assuming liberals actually read books. I strongly suspect they buy them and leave them out on coffee tables to try to impress their phoney velvet-and-polyester wearing arthouse geek buddies.

They should dig Atkins up so you chimps can plant a kiss on the arse of homo superior and at least get a glimpse of the next stage in human evolution – or at least the one that comes after you, anyway.
Posted by Cleve Blakemore · February 21st, 2005 at 4:06 pm


Jif, I’d like to congratulate you on your circa 1940’s roundup of current scientific thinking on weight loss. I have struggled not to be exposed to anything written after 1946 but weak character has found me poring over modern medical literature at times despite my best efforts.

Another reason why leftists suck – they are ALWAYS behind the intellectual power curve. They will be arguing rabidly in an empty stadium while tumbleweeds blow past, not realizing the argument has moved on some time ago.

Because of Atkins, jif, modern people have begun to realize just what the relationship is between insulin and the 400 lbs of raw white sugar and corn syrup we put into our bodies each year. Calling Atkins a genius is an understatement – the guy was not just brilliant beyond description, he was a modest innovator well over a hundred years past our time.

I can tell by your post you have no idea what I’m talking about. It’s the eternal sunshine of the spotless leftist mind.
Posted by Cleve Blakemore · February 22nd, 2005 at 1:36 am

 

[FrancoTAU]

Hasn't the Atkin's diet pretty much been dismissed as rubbish these days?

 

[Severian Silk]

Well, we could offer to polish the writing for him... you're an old and wise man... your insight coupled with my astounding ability of avoiding any sort of humour could craft the most delightful in-game writing ever to have graced the face of earth!

He probably wouldn't like that, as it's... well... Polish.

 

[JarlFrank]

He promised it's release every year from 1997

Reminds me of Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[obediah]

Grimoire is so not coming out. Fuck, even Fez coming back is more likely at this point.

 

[LCJr.]

Hasn't the Atkin's diet pretty much been dismissed as rubbish these days?

That's about the kind of comment I'd expect from a shrunken skulled pea brained leftwing commie pinko fag. I bet you have some of Atkins books on your coffee table for naugahyde and corduroy wearing pseudeo intellectual illerate friends. You left wingers are all alike. You wouldn't know true genius if it bit you on the ass.

Hey this is kinda fun.

 

[Fez]

It is also cheaper than therapy.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Hasn't the Atkin's diet pretty much been dismissed as rubbish these days?

That's about the kind of comment I'd expect from a shrunken skulled pea brained leftwing commie pinko fag. I bet you have some of Atkins books on your coffee table for naugahyde and corduroy wearing pseudeo intellectual illerate friends. You left wingers are all alike. You wouldn't know true genius if it bit you on the ass.

Hey this is kinda fun.

Atkins is DEAD.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Grimoire is so not coming out. Fuck, even Fez coming back is more likely at this point.

C'mon, no way you just randomly brought up Fez?

 

[SkeleTony]

Cleve is an imbecile. I used to pwn him in all sorts of political/religious debates until(a few years ago) he tried to go alter my posts to make it sound like I said a bunch of stupid shit and he was knocking down (a straw man of) "my" positions left and right, then he banned me yet continued arguing with me(or himself posing as me).

It's been my experience that people who write "pwn" don't do any of it when it comes to debates, but do tend to say a lot of stupid shit.

I don't typically use 'chat-speak'. Have seen the 'word' used so much in the last few months(usually as comic relief) that it kind of just came out.

But in any case, if you knew of me you wouldn't have said any of that. I probably spend close to 40-50 hours a week engaged in debate and I do not say "stupid shit". I don't commit logical fallacies and such. No 'attacking the person to avoid addressing the argument' or straw men or equivocation fallacies etc.

But if you ever come across a debate I have participated in wherein I have said "stupid shit" then I will gladly bow to your God-like intuition.

Until then kiddo...shut up before you embarrass yourself here.


P.S. who COULDN'T best Cleve Blakemoore ina debate?! I could see being skeptical if I had claimed to have 'pwned' Daniel Dennet or someone like that but Cleve?!

 

[kingcomrade]

I don't commit logical fallacies and such.

Is lying a logical fallacy or an 'and such?'

 

[obediah]

Grimoire is so not coming out. Fuck, even Fez coming back is more likely at this point.

C'mon, no way you just randomly brought up Fez?

Ph3ar my powerz! l0lz!!!1111!!!

(or perhaps I saw him post in a different thread moments before writing my post).

 

[Fez]

He knows the secret summoning spells and rituals.