An RPG Without Combat

[lightbane]

No, it was a French game, one where dragons slept and you persona was a dragon's dream, able to change at any time or something like that was, not related with WoD at all.

 

[Black Cat]

@ Lightbane

I see. Tell me if you remember the name and stuff and thingies, please.

 

[baronjohn]

Does Pathologic count?

 

[Black Cat]

@ baronjohn

It would count if it weren't for, like, the fact that in two of the three character path thingies there are forced fights. And it also isn't a role playing game, so nya.

 

[baronjohn]

You can refuse the fights ◔ ◡ ◔

 

[Black Cat]

@ baronjohn

Nu nu. Haruspicus must always fight you know who at least, and i believe Devotress also had, like, combat quests as part of her main stuff each day of the second half of her path or, like, thingies. But Haruspicus, at least, i'm sure must do that one fighty fight.



Ninja edit: How did you do that thingie? Do want, nya.

Moar edit: And Bachelor has a day quest that involves attacking a camp along the river thingie to look for Eve or Eva or whatever she was called.

 

[baronjohn]

If I remember right you can fail/skip all the day and side quests except the first day (day) quest.

Though the Devotress must kill someone on the first day, it' more like "oops he's dead" ◕‿‿‿‿◕

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Shenmue is my common example. There just isnt many fights at all. You might fight one an hour. It feels more like an adventure game than an RPG but I wish more RPGs were like it.

 

[deuxhero]

^ Was that the one with "do you know where sailors hang out?"?

 

[Emotional Vampire]

I wish more RPGs had no stats or quests at all.

Oh yeah? Well fuck you.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

No, it was a French game, one where dragons slept and you persona was a dragon's dream, able to change at any time or something like that was, not related with WoD at all.

Rêve de dragon ? If so, great game indeed. Very original magic system.

 

[lightbane]

No, it was a French game, one where dragons slept and you persona was a dragon's dream, able to change at any time or something like that was, not related with WoD at all.

Rêve de dragon ? If so, great game indeed. Very original magic system.

Yeah, that one, sadly I couldn't "find" a copy in english, I only know some random info in the wiki and other places

 

[SCO]

So is qfg a rpg or not?
Multiple (adventure & skill based)solutions, with combat, that could be avoided mostly.

Hell i played a fight less fallout 1 (strategic retreat into the horizon). And i'm quite sure it's at least possible to do most of that in Arcanum if you are willing to sacrifice quests.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Rêve de dragon ? If so, great game indeed. Very original magic system.

Yeah, that one, sadly I couldn't "find" a copy in english, I only know some random info in the wiki and other places

There's this :

http://www.malcontentgames.com/index2.shtml

But I don't know how good the english translation is. And it's not a really a "find". :wink:

 

[mondblut]

I am familiar with the history of RPGs, but shouldn't the genre have advanced somewhat from its tactical war game roots to actual role-playing?

You mean to LARPing?

...nah.

I always thought that CRPGs were all about the player making decisions for a character he has created... But shouldn't this make way for roles that don't utilize combat?

So are you going to forbid a player to make a decision to beat somebody down? "You can't do that, Avatar, this is a glorious Non-Combat RPG!". Yeah, so much for "roleplaying"

 

[mondblut]

No experience for combat? Pah? Adventure game! [/mondblut]

Calling Bloodlines an adventure would be flattery. It was and is a shitty FPS, no amount of clicking hypertext links makes it an adventure game.

 

[aries202]

Fallout 1 can be done without doing any combat at all, I think. Fallout 3 can be done in the same way (you'd still have to kill the cock roach, I'd guess?)

PS: Torment can be done also, avoding nearly all combat scenerios if you have high enough WIS, INT or CHAR, I think?

I've heard rumours abou Ultima IV (4) being more of experience adventuring through the land solving quests to get information. Don't know is this true, though.

 

[Martin]

Just make a graphical adventure with stats.

Doubt many would call it an rpg though.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

^ Was that the one with "do you know where sailors hang out?"?

yep

Didnt have any rad roaches though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USKtw0PajZ4

 

[Black Cat]

@ Aries202

To, like, avoiding nearly all combat scenarios you should add inside of that Sigil thingie and as long as, like, you avoid most sidequest and exploration stuffy stuff, nya.

And it would still be only half true.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I think there's room for growth away from purely combat oriented experiences or even into completely non-combat RPGs. I suspect that there are concerns about how well such a game would sell, though - especially when existing combat oriented games tend to scratch the itch for most people.

That being said, I've always wanted to see something like a thief based RPG where you would spend your time casing places, gathering info, breaking and entering... maybe pickpocketing or conning people or having optional assassin jobs. The closest thing to that I can think of is taking the thief class in Quest for Glory.

Other than that, I think a game that had a more fully fleshed out dialog/diplomacy system would be cool. Instead of casting spells or hacking a guy, you'd have powers like "witty repartee" that would inflict status effects to help you win an exchange. Strangely, the closest thing to something like this that I've seen was the diplomacy system in the Vanguard MMO where it played conversations out like a card game. It was actually kind of fun. If that sort of thing were adapted to a single player game where the conversations might be a bit more nuanced and interesting and you had more of a narrative link to your character... I think there're great possibilities. Sadly, I can't think of any game quite like that.

So, yes, I'd say there's a lot of room for making different experiences and game systems that are more fun than [Intelligence] choices in dialog. Sadly, no one that I know of seems interested in working on such a thing.

 

[Ogg]

A Call of Cthulhu cRPG could very well be combat free. Would it be less of an RPG? What do we know about Cyclopedian ? Wouldn't it fit n the discussion ?

 

[GarfunkeL]

Cyclopean has combat, though it's only against humans and very minor Mythos-creatures. Players won't be able to punch out Cthulhu.

 

[J1M]

I am interested in playing an RPG that is situated inside a senate or similar political structure. Your character would be an aide or something, maybe later you become a deputy minister or whatever but the crux of the gameplay would involve political maneuvering and negotiations.

There wouldn't need to be combat, but I'm sure some sort of blackmail or paid-for assassination would be an option.

That may sound horrible because you aren't saving the world (tm) but I know I would enjoy a different type of setting or at least a main character that was not capable of being proficient in fighting.

The main question that would arise in this situation I guess would be, how can you tell if it is an RPG or an adventure game. That doesn't really matter if the game is enjoyable, but individually tracked reputations and greater agency of the player when it comes to problem solving would seem to suggest RPG over the typical adventure game which is basically a movie with puzzles every 20 minutes.

 

[AzraelCC]

So are you going to forbid a player to make a decision to beat somebody down? "You can't do that, Avatar, this is a glorious Non-Combat RPG!". Yeah, so much for "roleplaying"

I never said role playing games should prevent you from engaging in combat.

I am looking for games that provide mechanics for non-combat actions that provide the same level of challenge, tension and options as that of combat in RPGs. I feel that a non-combat RPG (which doesn't seem to exist), would best highlight these mechanics, hence my search for such a game.

So far, the games that are able to somewhat provide a balance between combat and non-combat simply provide similar mechanics for the two, whether it's VTM:B or even Fallout. That is, combat is made simpler, instead of non-combat mechanics being developed more.

The rest of RPGs, from rogue-likes and dungeon crawlers to story-driven RPGs and sandbox RPGs, place combat as the main source of challenge for the player. Diplomacy is either an exercise in LARPing (merely a showcase of your morals, with very little effect on the gameworld), or a puzzle mini-game prone to trial and error(choosing the correct responses would enable you to elicit the required information). Stealth is reduced to competing dice rolls when combat has more options for positioning, stances and strategies when these are just as important in stealth. CRPGs are currently driven by combat.

This doesn't make all of them bad games, but it does raise the question: Why not just label them as tactical strategy games with a story or an open gameworld? Dungeon crawlers fit this label, hence it's a sub-genre defined by its focus on combat, nothing wrong with that. But for the rest of the RPGs, they must have something more than the challenge of combat to be labeled as RPGs. All I'm suggesting is that whatever that is, it should be highlighted more, else RPGs be nothing more than strategy games in disguise of a story.